Please sort out the leaning system

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Dcode

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,336
70
0
Sheffield, UK
Its come to my attention latley that alot of the experienced players are taking the piss with the leaning system. Please allow me to go into detail;

Its the rifles i have a problem with, SMG's dont really gain much of a advantage becuase of the insane recoil. Anyway, you can lean around every corner, which is fine however you can rest your rifle on any corner you lean on and due to the camera been at the tip of your forehead it makes it extremely difficult to get shot while giving yourself stability and a wide FOV. MG's dont really stand much of a chance from a clipping rifler.
Sand bags and walls are another offender. I'll use Odessa for an example. the sand bags facing the Square (final objective) have uneven hights, if you face the tallest point and lean to either left or right, you can fire through the tinest of gaps without been able to get shot. I was playing clan wars the other night and one of the enemy riflers was using this exploit. He was leaning both left and right, once he popped off one of our guys he would flip to the left, using the low point of the sand bag to shoot on and using the tall point as cover. He would pop one more and flip to the right side and so on. I had the scoped G43 and i fired a full clip into him. He went down with a nade. Now i know he was using his cover but it was the method in which he was doing so. He knew what he was doing and he knew that he could fire through the tinest of cracks without getting shot. In reality you could not fire through something without having a large part of your body exposed, unless you stuck your rifle through a hole in the sand bag but then you would see little while having little freedom to aim. Find any object, window or crack in the game and lean on it, you can fire through it while making yourself almost invulnerable. While this for myself was extremely frustrating, it also looked stupid.

I know this has been mentioned before, its the point of the camera thats the problem. I understand it would be difficult to code a way around this so i strongly suggest you rework the leaning system. One of my clanmates told me RTCW had a feature in which you could lean round a corner, could not be seen while doing so but could not shoot either. Maybe a system similar to this would be better? Becuase as it stands now its making the RO experience "gamey". The experienced players know every little crack and corner to clip on, sniping these days seems to be about who knows the most clipping spots rather than actual aiming skill. It reminds me of CS 1.6 where everyone sits on the same boxes, fires through the same walls. Im not having a go at the vets, becuase in the early ostfront days ive used this clipping advantages myself and ive come to realise, partly due to them been used on myself. I can see how lame it looks. Im doing my best not to use them but its difficult when everyone else does. For me its killing my RO experience and my enthusiasm for playing matches is starting to die.
 

Rrralphster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 4, 2006
1,411
106
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49
Nederland
Besides fixing the camera position I think weapon collision detection would eliminate the problem.

The same problem appears when someone is shooting down from a ledge.
The player avatar and his weapon clip in the terrain and are harder to hit then it should be.

Resting a weapon against the corner of a building or a tree isn't the problem though.
 

Reznor

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 18, 2006
449
0
0
Darmstadt, Germany
Most aspects of games can be abused, you'll never get around that. Its not the game mechanics which cause the problem, its the players... I'm a rifle-player myself and leaning is absolutly essential for me.

But I agree that it is ridiculous that someone can shoot you without revealing himself at all. I don't think its the leaning system which has to be changed though, its more the point of view.
Where is it exactly located at the moment? The forehead? Whereever it is, it should be lowered a tiny bit so people have to reveal their head/upper body a bit (at least more than at the moment) to shoot around corners.
 

Ron

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
910
0
0
Yea this tip of the helmet camera ****e is really annoying i regulary see players leaning round corners now i can only see his rifle and a tiny bit of his helmet then bam im dead it really does ruin the immersion :( and makes life much harder for mger's since they cant shoot back or even see those rifle men leaning round corners.
 

Plaid13

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 22, 2006
532
0
0
i agree 100% aiming with the top of your helmet is stupid. But... apparently noone at tripwire cares because... they coded it that way. its not like its a bug or anything they had to set it up that way for it to be that way. Apparently the tripwire team is a bunch of frogs with eyes on on top of everything else.
 

Rrralphster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 4, 2006
1,411
106
0
49
Nederland
i agree 100% aiming with the top of your helmet is stupid. But... apparently noone at tripwire cares because... they coded it that way. its not like its a bug or anything they had to set it up that way for it to be that way. Apparently the tripwire team is a bunch of frogs with eyes on on top of everything else.

I don't think "they" (TWI) coded it in that way. It's how the UE works...
And being less offensive towards the devs would be greatly apreciated.
If you wanna get rough, take on one of the bigger software companies.
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
0
It's not "tip of the helmet." I tested this. The vertical is not the problem, it's the horizontal (as the OP mentioned).

The problem is that the 1st POV camera is moving farther than the avatar is leaning. To fix this, they just need to pull the POV while leaning closer to the body, thus forcing the player to expose more of themselves. (whee!)
 

Ender

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 30, 2006
442
64
0
Illinois
This is one of the big things I wish they would change but it would be a lot of work. What would everything look like if you shrank 3 or 4 inches? All the maps would have to be reworked to line up better with the new view points. I just don't see to many big changes coming to RO. We will get the little upgrades and patches but I don
 

mat69

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 1, 2006
826
0
0
This is one of the big things I wish they would change but it would be a lot of work. What would everything look like if you shrank 3 or 4 inches? All the maps would have to be reworked to line up better with the new view points. I just don't see to many big changes coming to RO. We will get the little upgrades and patches but I don’t see something like this being done. Maybe TW's next game...
Is it really that much work?
Do you know that?
Did you ask the developers?

Sorry if I'm wrong, but I doubt that you can answer any of those questions for sure.
So please no asumptions of how much work something could be.
That destroys many ideas if you do not have a way to back up your opinion.
Let the developers say if they mean that it is too much work for them.

So imo that is not an opinion at all but just a cheap excuse to prevent any changes!
 

Colt .45 killer

Grizzled Veteran
May 19, 2006
3,996
775
113
please not the system from wolf rtcw it was a peek system meaning you couldent fire your gun while in the lean mode. i might just stop playing the game if that was implemented in the game because that would mean having to step completely out round the corner an get total hosed. which is even more "arcady" then what we have now.
 

Dcode

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,336
70
0
Sheffield, UK
please not the system from wolf rtcw it was a peek system meaning you couldent fire your gun while in the lean mode. i might just stop playing the game if that was implemented in the game because that would mean having to step completely out round the corner an get total hosed. which is even more "arcady" then what we have now.

Ive never played RTCW multiplayer i was just pointing something out. If leaning can be "fixed" with a realistic amount of body exposed i would highly welcome that.

Anyway id rather take the option of not firing while leaning and taking another aproach to dealing with MG's and snipers than the current system of shooting them with my helmet.
 

Colt .45 killer

Grizzled Veteran
May 19, 2006
3,996
775
113
yes you do have a good point, but beleive me, not being able to shoot while leaning .. thing of the impact that would have on the game...
 

Ender

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 30, 2006
442
64
0
Illinois
Is it really that much work?
Do you know that?
Did you ask the developers?

Sorry if I'm wrong, but I doubt that you can answer any of those questions for sure.
So please no asumptions of how much work something could be.
That destroys many ideas if you do not have a way to back up your opinion.
Let the developers say if they mean that it is too much work for them.

So imo that is not an opinion at all but just a cheap excuse to prevent any changes!

lol if you think they are going to put a bunch of people on this got ahead and belive that. Trust me I would love to see this but it just isnt going to happen. They have a very small team working on OF, most of the team has moved on to their next project. No i dont know any of this for sure but what game have you bought that has ever come our with large changes for free? Some one as already stated that it is built into UT04. I would hope they would try and get a few new map, wepons and tanks out and maybe rework the mgs a little bit. After that i dont see to much changeing
 

Zetsumei

Grizzled Veteran
Nov 22, 2005
12,458
1,433
113
34
Amsterdam, Netherlands
the pov is actually on the hight of your character's eyes. But its a bit ahead of the head meaning when you lean you can cut a corner. Because although your head is behind a thin piece of the wall your view is actually already on the other side :p
 

Dcode

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,336
70
0
Sheffield, UK
yes you do have a good point, but beleive me, not being able to shoot while leaning .. thing of the impact that would have on the game...

We managed with it for 3 years with the mod. But yeh i understand what your saying and im not trying to argue with you. I think the dev team should look at how other games deal with leaning and try and port something over from the ones that work. I cant remember but how does americas armys leaning system work? Does that have the same clipping problems as RO?
 

Sgt._Geist

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
310
0
0
leaning is a great feature, for any riflemen. But it gives any machine guner a real head ache

Very True......... But even though I play both classes....... It still gets very annoying.... Only seeing a bit of helmet sticking out that door......and then getting shot down.... It ****s big time!:D

Would be nice to get it fixed.......