Detailed thread, bro.
I'm down with no balance, just realistic damage, etc.
Looks like that's what we'll see, h
I'm down with no balance, just realistic damage, etc.
Looks like that's what we'll see, h
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Hardly more penetration then a .45 acp. That seemingly little 2.47mm difference between the rounds makes a difference.
The .45 acp makes a larger permanent cavity then a 9mm so I wouldn't say they are the same in terms of damage in a FMJ loading. In hollow point form, they are pretty much equal.And exactly of what use is it to post pictures in different scales ?
Fact is that the 9mm Parabellum will penetrate thicker material in its' std. loading than the .45 ACP, and the amount of tissue damage they inflict is very similar.
Hence why the 9mm became the NATO standard.
The .45 acp makes a larger permanent cavity then a 9mm so I wouldn't say they are the same in terms of damage in a FMJ loading. In hollow point form, they are pretty much equal.
Not too long ago was I under the impression that .45 ACP FMJ was the god-all of Handgun cartridges. Only recently have I been presented with plenty of information that suggests otherwise - that while it does have an advantage, 9mm is almost entirely as capable in FMJ configuration, and is of course considerably better for the Soldier to carry since it's much lighter and magazine capacity can be larger.
There's a reason the 9mm was chosen over the rest, it's a perfect blend between the small and fast pistol cartridges such as the 7.65mm Mauser & 7.62mm Tokarev (that feature relatively flat trajectories and high penetration), and the larger but slower pistol cartridges such as the .45 ACP (that dump energy slightly faster inside tissue).
Care to elaborate? What type/class of bodyarmor are you speaking of?No. Tokarev is flat out superior.
In addition to penetrating kevlar, which is positively critical in a modern military or even to serious police raids at this point, the Tokarev also creates a more significant wound channel in FMJ, which is also of high priority to the military because they're barred from using rapid expansion calibers.
If anything, from what I've seen, the world's militaries should be using something like the 7.62 Tokarev or the 5.7, which both have flat trajectories, low recoil, good initial penetration, and favorable terminal ballistics in FMJ.
The 9mm is not even remotely a perfect blend, it leaves an unremarkable permanent wound channel in FMJ and it doesn't penetrate kevlar.
Russians have their own armour-piercing 9mm +P+.If anything, from what I've seen, the world's militaries should be using something like the 7.62 Tokarev or the 5.7, which both have flat trajectories, low recoil, good initial penetration, and favorable terminal ballistics in FMJ.
I don't see what merits such attention for 9x19 considering it doesn't exactly have a spectacular reputation as far as terminal ballistics and its penetration capabilities certainly aren't exceptional. Neither does it really have exceptionally flat trajectories. Granted the way that kevlar catches rounder tipped bullets, dispersing their kinetic energy, it seems to me that bullet designs whichever way should lean towards 5.7 or rifle style bullet design. Round nose bullets are so stupid in a military setting.
While 5.7mm may have no problem defeating lower-level body armour, the actual round produces relatively low (albeit acceptable) tissue penetration (~25cm) and minimal yawing. Once it gets through that armour it's not going to be more reliable than a low-velocity 5.56mm, which in many soldier's opinions is not fantastic. And, there are certain angles when shooting at targets in which more than 30cm of penetration is needed to reach vital organs.
So, how many Taliban are wearing Level II Body Armour? Let's have a poll.
'Cause right now there are no wars against Combatants that do use body armour. Insurgents are just scrawny lightly-clothed men. Most rifle-type rounds fail to yaw effectively in this type of enemy because they are so thin the bullet has already exited them before turning sideways. It's a big problem with 5.56mm and even more powerful cartridges such as 7.62mm and .50 BMG.
We don't need armour penetration against our current enemies. We need long projectiles that yaw very early in tissue to produce the best results against our immediate threat.
If we weren't down there kicking the *** of these insurgents, blowing their training camps and weapon deposits to smithereens, and making sure they don't terrorize and convert the whole populace in their area, then we'd see a whole lot more acts of terror in our own countries. Remember who started the whole thing, a little fella called Osama.
Appreciate what our boys are doing down there right now, cause they're keeping our asses safe while we're sitting down enjoying our coffee or what'ever.