WARNING; I'M HAVING A BRAIN FART AND CAN'T REMEMBER BASIC MATH, SOMEONE PLEASE CLEAN THIS UP FOR MEWould you all agree that you need the ground in some fashion to take off (water included)?

Ok, then if the ground is matching your forward speed in the opposite direction, how do you get moving forward to create enough air causing lift?

Plane is at a full stop. Applies thrust, starts to creep forward. At the exact same instant the treadmill moves with equal speed in the opposite direction. The plane is never allowed to move forward or gain momentum due to the treadmill matching the speed made by the plane's thrust - in the opposite direction. Where does the force of the air come from in an example that has the plane, in effect, standing still?

There is a curve.

For every x thrust , there is an equal and opposite y thrust of the treadmill.

Z is the motion.

(x)-=z

So mr car goes 10mph, treadmill goes 10mph back

(10)-(10)=0

So the car goes nowhere.

The wheels on the car are set to neutral, and a ROCKET engine on top is putting out the equivalent of 100mph of thrust. So the treadmill puts 100mph back in to the wheels that the car are resting on.

(100)-... wait.

The wheels are free rolling, so when you push not all the force is transfered, so maybe 0.1 of the force is transfered to the plane.

So thats

(100)-(100x0.1)=z

(100)-(10)=90

So the plane moves 90kph forward. Instead of 100kph.

Of course the 0.1 would actually be a curve because more force the more resistance, blah blah blah but Its early morning and I should be working.