Placing Smoke, And Friendly Fire Lanes
- Thread starter monster
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No matter how well or bad you place smoke on whichever side, it will almost always help the offense.
Sure the MGer might be blocking enemy reinforcements, but that lane may be vital for your own troops to get into a cap zone, and smoke may be better.
I'd guess my mentality to the game is like this. We all glorify the MGer who blocks an area, or the sniper who seriously weakens the enemy suppressive fire, or the commander who just called arty that took out 5 people. However, the game is won by people that just get in the cap zone. Usually, they accomplish nothing else besides getting in the cap zone. A good amount of them are riflemen who cannot really do much in the often close quarters of the cap zone, or they are afraid of dieing so they just hide, etc. Sometimes you see an smger kill a bunch of people in a cap zone, or a rifleman stab a bunch, but for the most part they just get in and stay in as much as possible.
They are the guys that win the game. They need as many bodies that come as possible. Smoke is a multiplier effect, as is just having the commander in the cap zone. Everything else is secondary. The commander thus has to worry about effectively doing two multiplier effects which are *huge*. He also has to call arty (which imo is less important than smoke but more so than MGs) and keep himself alive in the cap zone. He really does not have time to worry about the MG, if he does he is doing something wrong. He should always be *way to busy* unless he is on defense.
If he is on defense and using smoke, he is doing something wrong 99% of the time.
Sure the MGer might be blocking enemy reinforcements, but that lane may be vital for your own troops to get into a cap zone, and smoke may be better.
I'd guess my mentality to the game is like this. We all glorify the MGer who blocks an area, or the sniper who seriously weakens the enemy suppressive fire, or the commander who just called arty that took out 5 people. However, the game is won by people that just get in the cap zone. Usually, they accomplish nothing else besides getting in the cap zone. A good amount of them are riflemen who cannot really do much in the often close quarters of the cap zone, or they are afraid of dieing so they just hide, etc. Sometimes you see an smger kill a bunch of people in a cap zone, or a rifleman stab a bunch, but for the most part they just get in and stay in as much as possible.
They are the guys that win the game. They need as many bodies that come as possible. Smoke is a multiplier effect, as is just having the commander in the cap zone. Everything else is secondary. The commander thus has to worry about effectively doing two multiplier effects which are *huge*. He also has to call arty (which imo is less important than smoke but more so than MGs) and keep himself alive in the cap zone. He really does not have time to worry about the MG, if he does he is doing something wrong. He should always be *way to busy* unless he is on defense.
If he is on defense and using smoke, he is doing something wrong 99% of the time.
Smoke close to enemy approach works well that 1 % of the time you have a smart or lucky SL. (Shoot em as they come out of smoke.)
Smoke can also used on the defense, you just need to place it accordingly:
Place the smoke at the enemys side of a chokepoint/position, so the line where the smoke does get thin is just a few steps out of his cover. He won't be able to shoot back from cover, so your team can set up their positions easily.
As soon as they try to advance, they will have to fight on open ground against well prepared enemys: Certain death
This also works on the advance towards the position, since the enemy still can't use his advantage of cover.
Place the smoke at the enemys side of a chokepoint/position, so the line where the smoke does get thin is just a few steps out of his cover. He won't be able to shoot back from cover, so your team can set up their positions easily.
As soon as they try to advance, they will have to fight on open ground against well prepared enemys: Certain death
This also works on the advance towards the position, since the enemy still can't use his advantage of cover.
When you attack using smoke, try to go around the smoke. It seems to be dead set in most gamers minds that smoke is up there so the enemy can run through it; the idea, so it seems, is so the side using the smoke can close on the enemy.
This is a valid tactic, but going through the smoke is cliche and expected so much; so go around the smoke and flank them, the MGers will expect infantry to come charging like maniacs out of the smoke, so yeah.
This is a valid tactic, but going through the smoke is cliche and expected so much; so go around the smoke and flank them, the MGers will expect infantry to come charging like maniacs out of the smoke, so yeah.
If you're playing offense, hang on to your smoke and use it to cover the assault. You can debate specifically HOW to use it, but generally just try to blind the other side long enough for your guys to advance into cover.
If you're playing defense, there are only two situations when you need smoke: 1.) to cover an infantry retreat over open ground, especially from armor and MG fire, and 2.) to blind an enemy offensive MG that has been set up and is pinning your guys down.
#2 almost never happens (especially since your friendly sniper or an average rifleman will usually take the MG out), and #1 is only useful on a very few maps.
So, most of the time, I'd say your best bet as the defensive commander is to cycle to your smoke grenades and drop them as soon as you spawn. Try to pick up real grenades as soon as you can, and if you run by a resupply depot, drop the grenades again.
I suppose you could make a third argument for defensive smoke use IF conditions favor your side in close combat (IE: Russians on defense, close engagement range, want to force the enemy to come up against your PPShs). But again, that's fairly rare as well.
If you're playing defense, there are only two situations when you need smoke: 1.) to cover an infantry retreat over open ground, especially from armor and MG fire, and 2.) to blind an enemy offensive MG that has been set up and is pinning your guys down.
#2 almost never happens (especially since your friendly sniper or an average rifleman will usually take the MG out), and #1 is only useful on a very few maps.
So, most of the time, I'd say your best bet as the defensive commander is to cycle to your smoke grenades and drop them as soon as you spawn. Try to pick up real grenades as soon as you can, and if you run by a resupply depot, drop the grenades again.
I suppose you could make a third argument for defensive smoke use IF conditions favor your side in close combat (IE: Russians on defense, close engagement range, want to force the enemy to come up against your PPShs). But again, that's fairly rare as well.
I use smoke defensively as Russian SL on Basovka. Other similar situations warrant it's use defensively as well.
Smoke is most useful for concealing you from an enemy's aim during a rush through an open area.
Defenders have to rush through open areas too. To get to the MLR (main line of resistance). Such as the front trench on Basovka.
I drop smoke between the bunker and the front trench, to cover my guys' approach to the capzone. I put it far enough back that it doesn't interfere with MG aims, but close enough that the guys can make the dash to the AT position without coming under fire.
Then again I use smoke to cover the defenders rushing from Station to Bunker for second phase. Then again for covering defenders rushing into the back of the Station in the final phase. Because when I'm attacking, this is where I mow them down, before they get to the capzone.
Wherever your guys have to cross an open area, someone will want to set up and kill them doing it. Defensive smoke prevents that.
I NEVER use defensive smoke out in FRONT of the position being defended... that only helps the attacker.
Well only to blind a tank at close range.
As attacking SL I notice it sometimes (hey good smoke but that's not my smoke...must be the enemy's - that idiot) and it helps me keep a smoke screen up persistently.
Smoke is most useful for concealing you from an enemy's aim during a rush through an open area.
Defenders have to rush through open areas too. To get to the MLR (main line of resistance). Such as the front trench on Basovka.
I drop smoke between the bunker and the front trench, to cover my guys' approach to the capzone. I put it far enough back that it doesn't interfere with MG aims, but close enough that the guys can make the dash to the AT position without coming under fire.
Then again I use smoke to cover the defenders rushing from Station to Bunker for second phase. Then again for covering defenders rushing into the back of the Station in the final phase. Because when I'm attacking, this is where I mow them down, before they get to the capzone.
Wherever your guys have to cross an open area, someone will want to set up and kill them doing it. Defensive smoke prevents that.
I NEVER use defensive smoke out in FRONT of the position being defended... that only helps the attacker.
Well only to blind a tank at close range.
As attacking SL I notice it sometimes (hey good smoke but that's not my smoke...must be the enemy's - that idiot) and it helps me keep a smoke screen up persistently.
Agreed. It's not easy to find a time and place where defensive smoke is called for. Whereas offensive smoke is almost always called for (except when it impedes effective support, like on Gorlitz).
I could see using defensive smoke on gorlitz, to blind the tanks. Only because the power is so mismatched (for good reason imo) on that map with one side not having tanks. Great map though, but it plays kind of uniquely.
They don't ussualy last all that long though, from what I have seen.
I don't know if this is possible or not (though I think it is, I have just never tested it) but IMHO the ultimate use of smoke is to lodge the grenade on the opposing sides tank, so they can't get out of it, but you own tanks and anti-tank units can still shoot and reasonably hope for a hit.
I don't know if this is possible or not (though I think it is, I have just never tested it) but IMHO the ultimate use of smoke is to lodge the grenade on the opposing sides tank, so they can't get out of it, but you own tanks and anti-tank units can still shoot and reasonably hope for a hit.
As you prolly know by now Jank, I post tactics assuming they are for the average SL, which IMO means if he is throwing smoke (on offense) its a success.
I also assume that many players that have an average tactical mind are reading this (but for the most part not posting.) I completly agree smoke can be great on defense. However, I think that unless you absolutely know what you are doing, you are going to hurt your team. If we do not stress that enough, I feel people will read this, think "Hey didn't somebody say use smoke here" (when in fact they are misinterpreting the situation) and hurt their team.
Anyways, the main reason defenders ever throw smoke is because the commander forgets he is the commander, and is trying to grenade somebody. This is especially easy as a German SL on defense (because you are so similar to an assault trooper in layout and smoke grenades look a lot like sticks) I have seen many a time (and done it a few times too) when a commander throws a smoke grenade obviously thinking its a normal grenade.
Wish they gave defending commanders the ability to pick their nade type.
I also assume that many players that have an average tactical mind are reading this (but for the most part not posting.) I completly agree smoke can be great on defense. However, I think that unless you absolutely know what you are doing, you are going to hurt your team. If we do not stress that enough, I feel people will read this, think "Hey didn't somebody say use smoke here" (when in fact they are misinterpreting the situation) and hurt their team.
Anyways, the main reason defenders ever throw smoke is because the commander forgets he is the commander, and is trying to grenade somebody. This is especially easy as a German SL on defense (because you are so similar to an assault trooper in layout and smoke grenades look a lot like sticks) I have seen many a time (and done it a few times too) when a commander throws a smoke grenade obviously thinking its a normal grenade.
Wish they gave defending commanders the ability to pick their nade type.
Yes that would be nice. There is a selectable graphic on some maps even, where as SL you can see icons for both regular and smoke nades. I try to select regular sometimes but it doesn't actually do anything. Would be nice if it did.