Pistol thread

[airsoft343]

This will be dedicated to PISTOLS ONLY NOTHING ELSE
so basically
1. Anyone find it kind of weird that the slide of the pistol magically slides back even if your not out of ammo? this really needs to be fixed, it just really bugs me
2. When dueling pistols, when your character pushes the slide release, on the left pistol he pushes down the slide release. The only problem is, well, there isnt a slide release there on a real pistol.
3. just a suggestion, what about an automatic/burst fire pistol
ie. Glock 18c or something like that
Pros: high ROF, good capacity (20-25?) lightweight
Cons: Low accuracy, low damage, worse than the M9 (not by that much though, maybe even have the same damage?) EXPENSIVE, more than HC
has flashlight attached
so those are my thoughts, let me know what you think and come up with your own!

 

[Nekomancer]

How do you do a duel with a Pistol?

I think we have enough Pistols. It's more about quality then quantity. If you want a weapon that fires faster than the 9mm and has lower accuracy, take the Bullpup. It's not a pistol but it's exactly what you want. Except for the flashlight.

About the "magic" slider. Is that really a bug? I'm not an weapon expert, but as far as i know, the slider ejects the bullet casing when moving backwards and loads a new bullet when sliding back in place.

I agree about the dual reload, but it's just a minor animation bug.

 

[airsoft343]

your correct but...

your correct but...

yes, when the slide goes back it ejects the shell, but if you have ever play rainbow six vegas, if you reload BEFORE you run out of ammo, there is a bullet still in the chamber. Why get rid of the bullet? its just wasting ammo. The slides should only go back if you run out of ammo.
PS, love the quote

 

[Nibe]

yes, when the slide goes back it ejects the shell, but if you have ever play rainbow six vegas, if you reload BEFORE you run out of ammo, there is a bullet still in the chamber. Why get rid of the bullet? its just wasting ammo. The slides should only go back if you run out of ammo.
PS, love the quote

Correct! Slider moves back only when the clip is empty (After shot.)
But if KF slider moves back when you reload.

 

[9_6]

A fully automatic pistol sounds kinda silly to me. The commando weapons fill that role pretty well.

Well, apart from new firebug weaponry which he will never ever get anyway because the firebug never gets anything, a tier 3 pistol would be the only weapon this game still has room for.
We have the weak high ammo 9mm, the medium strong lower ammoclip high recoil handcannon, what's missing is the extreme lowest ammoclip highest damage massive recoil pistol.

Now what I think about is a 6-shot magnum with only 36 bullets each being so devastating that they have a name written on them.
Reload would be 1 bullet at a time, the drum gets completely emptied, no matter how many bullets were left at the start of a reload so even reloading is a thrilling experience that absolutely demands the mastership of timed reloads and that thing should have so much recoil that you look at the ceiling after spamming 4 shots.
Exceptionally brave -or desperate- souls can try to tame 2 of these beasts at the cost of not being able to aim at all.
That thing should be so strong that it should bite off a good portion of a fps life with 6 shots, maybe even kill it, and of course have that sweet penetration ability of a crossbow but no ridiculous headshot extra damage.

HOWEVER this weapon would have no place in the game if the sharpshooter also covers pistols, which is kind of silly, since he has 7 (!) weapons for his class right now!
So what would be the solution?

Introducing the only perk this game still has room for due to weapon overlapping like the support and explosives had it; a perk dedicated to pistols.

What would be special about it?
Well, ever wondered what dual wielding is good for since you can't aim anymore, don't get additional ammo and you have to click 30 bloody times to empty your mag?

This would be the answer to that problem since that perk would have autofire with all dual wielded pistols, effectively turning them into commando weapons, only stronger and with less ammo and not being precise at all.
It would give dual 9mms a reason to exist.
If you ever fired dual handcannons then you know, those are meant to be fired in slow motion so this perk would get a higher chance to trigger a ZED time whenever he kills something with dualies.
Also slap additional (non-headshot) damage, a faster reload (mandatory for dualies), discounts on all pistols and spawning with dual 9mms on lv5, dual handcannons on lv6 on it and we have a new perk.

And before anyone starts whining about why the sharpshooter needs their pistols and why they should not be taken away, holy crap why should pistols be class weapons to a perk whose sheer name suggests precision rifles with scopes and a low firerate?
Also SS is too strong anyway.

 

[NekoChrissy]

... A lot of words ...

A revolver/magnum would still use the same caliber round as a Hand Cannon. If there is sense to it, the revolver would technically be a downgrade from the Hand Cannon.

The Hand Cannon is more accurate, has significantly less recoil, larger clip size, and it doesn't weigh a ton because it doesn't have to compensate for the recoil. Not to mention the Hand Cannon would have a faster rate of fire AND it wouldn't take an eternity to fumble your ammunition into it.

Just because Gorden Freemen used it to fight off the aliens doesn't mean our British guys should use it to fight off a horde of specimens. Throwing a high caliber revolver into Killing Floor is like giving the Berserker a longer katana.

Now, a more suitable means of developing sidearms is to not add a more powerful sidearm, but one to fill in the gap between the 9mm and Hand Cannon. I would suggest, perhaps, a sidearm that uses .45 caliber rounds such as the MK23 or Kimber.

More firepower at the cost of a little ammo. A good middle-ground between the 9mm and Hand Cannon.

 

[9_6]

...a lot of words too...

Why do people keep trying to bring real life logic by listing up callibers and stuff into a freaking game about shooting freaking zombies?
I bet there are tons of calliber discrepancys to real life in the game already. Just take a look at the mp7 so who the hell cares?

 

[SMIFF]

This will be dedicated to PISTOLS ONLY NOTHING ELSE
so basically
1. Anyone find it kind of weird that the slide of the pistol magically slides back even if your not out of ammo? this really needs to be fixed, it just really bugs me
2. When dueling pistols, when your character pushes the slide release, on the left pistol he pushes down the slide release. The only problem is, well, there isnt a slide release there on a real pistol.
3. just a suggestion, what about an automatic/burst fire pistol
ie. Glock 18c or something like that
Pros: high ROF, good capacity (20-25?) lightweight
Cons: Low accuracy, low damage, worse than the M9 (not by that much though, maybe even have the same damage?) EXPENSIVE, more than HC
has flashlight attached
so those are my thoughts, let me know what you think and come up with your own!

1. Stop Whinging
2. See Above
3. Could be good

 

[NekoChrissy]

Why do people keep trying to bring real life logic by listing up callibers and stuff into a freaking game about shooting freaking zombies?
I bet there are tons of calliber discrepancys to real life in the game already. Just take a look at the mp7 so who the hell cares?

They are not ZOMBIES. They are mutated human abominations of SCIENCE aka Specimens.

The reason why calibers, firearm types, and all that gun-crazy jazz is to give the game sense! Seriously, if there was no structure then we would all be running around with a collection of guns that have no coherence what-so-ever.

Never would I ever, even in a game, would I choose a revolver over a Desert Eagle. Maybe if I want to be cool for a little, but we all know how "being cool" ends up in video games. YOU DIE.

If you really must insist, then throw in a gun that somehow is more powerful than the Hand Cannon, a special flamethrower that burns specimens more, and a sharper sword that somehow out-performs a mother-lovin' chainsaw.

 

[9_6]

They are not ZOMBIES. They are mutated human abominations of SCIENCE aka Specimens.

What's your point?
Just correcting me for the sake of correcting me?
You see those things, you think 'zombie'. End of story.
Hell one of the in game taunts even calls them 'zombies'.

Maybe if I want to be cool for a little, but we all know how "being cool" ends up in video games. YOU DIE.

Well actually in most games being cool is the whole point.
How else can you explain god of war, resident evil 4 etc?

If you really must insist, then throw in a gun that somehow is more powerful than the Hand Cannon, a special flamethrower that burns specimens more, and a sharper sword that somehow out-performs a mother-lovin' chainsaw.

Stop with that nonsense rant. I didn't suggest a freaking laser gun or anything.

Also when did I ever mention a caliber?
Because of you I wasted a minute of my time searching for a revolver/magnum/handgun that has a larger caliber than the desert eagle.

There, 60 caliber wrist breaking goodness would this have a bigger punch than the 50 cal desert eagle?

I bet someone deeper in the matter than me can come up with a more handy handgun with the same sort of punch or we just stop whining about what absolutely doesn't matter at all, I was thinking of a shooter with an actual place in the game and gameplay in mind because that's what we're talking about, a game, not some gun-nut gibberish reasoning why this wouldn't be 'realistic' based on calibers or whatever because most people don't give a damn about that, they just wanna shoot zombies and be awesome.
Now thank you for wasting my time on that.

By the way, mr. the-game-must-make-sense, grenades have a blast radius of 10 meters -not including shrapnel- and there isn't much left of a body if you stand even 5 meters close to one going off.
In-game, a single grenade that goes off right in the face of a clot doesn't kill it.
How do the way grenades act in the game make 'sense' to you but but a revolver being stronger than a desert eagle not?
How do heads popping from the shot of a 9mm make sense to you?
Hell, how does a freaking crossbow bolt being 10 times stronger than a rocket make sense to you?
I can only assume that you believe everything in the game makes perfect sense since my intrusive introduction of a magnum as a handgun with a bigger punch would totally devastate that fine balance.

Also, speaking of 'realism', it has been mentioned multiple times that chainsaws would be more lethal to the user than to the victim if used as a weapon because they're not designed for cutting meat, how does it make sense to you that they're supposed to be stronger than an instrument that has been designed to cut through meat and to be used as a weapon?

I won't even go into magical welders that weld glass and wood and mysterious syringes that heal any kind of wound instantly.


Seriously don't go "this isn't realistic" on me.

 

[Steg]

Now, a more suitable means of developing sidearms is to not add a more powerful sidearm, but one to fill in the gap between the 9mm and Hand Cannon.

A balance between 9mm and HC would be worth looking into.

I would suggest, perhaps, a sidearm that uses .45 caliber rounds such as the MK23 or Kimber.

The MK23 is terrible. It's like a lower powered HC. It's huge, and the whole thing sproings around when it fires. And it's got the horrible HK magazine release. Kimber makes nice 1911's but I'd want a bit more capacity to make it worth the step down in power from the HC. Para-Ordinance makes some nice higher capacity 1911 style pistols. Give it a 10-12 round magazine, higher body-shot damage than the 9mm and off you go.

That concludes the on-topic portion of my post. Feel free to stop reading.


**Warning** gun related pedantry ahead!

A revolver/magnum would still use the same caliber round as a Hand Cannon.

Unlikely. While .50AE revolvers exist, they're really rare. More likely, a (video-game) comparable round would be .500 S&W or 454 Casull.

The Hand Cannon is more accurate

If you take into account the user firing it with followup shots, sure. But the gun itself is probably less accurate unless it's got the massive 10" barrel.

has significantly less recoil, larger clip size

Point. FAR less recoil. A huge amount. And the DE's 7-round magazine carries one round more than a 6-round cylinder. (Plus one more in the pipe if you top off your mag after loading)

it doesn't weigh a ton because it doesn't have to compensate for the recoil.

The Desert Eagle weighs more than a comparable revolver. A modern Mark XIX DE is 70 oz, while a longer-barreled .454 (Raging Bull) is 53 oz. (I haven't weighed either of them, sources are wikipedia and Taurus USA)

Not to mention the Hand Cannon would have a faster rate of fire AND it wouldn't take an eternity to fumble your ammunition into it.

Point. Slightly faster, since the lower recoil means you can get back on target faster. Even with moon clips, a mag change is quite a bit faster (and easier to carry around).

Never would I ever, even in a game, would I choose a revolver over a Desert Eagle. Maybe if I want to be cool for a little, but we all know how "being cool" ends up in video games. YOU DIE.

So dual wielding .50AE handguns is totally reasonable, but a more powerful, more accurate, slower shooting revolver is not?

Slider moves back only when the clip is empty (After shot.)

I know what you mean, but I'll clarify in case anyone is confused. When you fire, the bullet goes out the business end, and the slide moves back, ejecting the casing. If there's another round in the magazine, the slide moves forward, pulling the next round out of the magazine and into the breech. The gun can then be fired again. When the magazine is empty, the slide locks back after that last round has been fired. You can then drop the empty mag, insert a new one, and press the slide stop to let the slide move forward and chamber the top round. If the gun is currently loaded and you press the magazine release, all that happens is the magazine drops out. The round in the chamber stays there, the slide doesn't move. The gun is still loaded and ready to fire. You can insert a new magazine and the gun is still ready to fire, no racking of the slide is necessary. You only need to operate the slide manually if the gun is empty and the slide is forward for some reason.

Think of it like loading the shotgun, you only need to pump it if the chamber is empty. If you're just topping off the magazine you don't need to pump because there's still a shell in the chamber.

ALSO! Despite not being correct, I'm guessing it's easier to just have one reloading animation for any gun in any situation. If they had the character grab the slide and rack it every time that would be worse, and if the slide never moved at all, that's not good either. So unless they want multiple reloading animations based on how many rounds are left, this is a good way to leave it. Same deal with the slide release on the left hand. They could make the left gun a "lefty" model with the slide stop on the right side, or just make him hit the button with his trigger finger instead of thumb, but again it's probably (far) more work than it's worth. They're too busy to properly fix the Skrake's ellipsis in the loading screen, so I don't expect animations to change =)

Why do people keep trying to bring real life logic by listing up callibers and stuff

Because we like it? It's interesting to us. And it's in a game that deals with our hobby. If Tripwire made a game all about computers, but they constantly referred to the CPU as "memory" and talked about the AMD Pentium RAM, we would be all up in their business also. They chose (a facsimile of) real weapons to put in their game instead of railguns and lazers, so of course there's going to be some discussion about them. Feel free not to read and respond.



TL;DR: A medium capacity .45ACP pistol would be neat. M9s are magic. I'm a verbose nerd. No-one cares.

 

[Nanostrike]

3. just a suggestion, what about an automatic/burst fire pistol
ie. Glock 18c or something like that
Pros: high ROF, good capacity (20-25?) lightweight
Cons: Low accuracy, low damage, worse than the M9 (not by that much though, maybe even have the same damage?) EXPENSIVE, more than HC
has flashlight attached

So bascially a differently-modeled MP7 with a Flashlight instead of a Med Dart? Ummm...why?

How do you do a duel with a Pistol?

The traditional method is 10 paces at dawn

 

[NekoChrissy]

I just don't think a revolver would be anymore different, if not worse, than a Hand Cannon and therefore wouldn't that much of a great addition.

Which is why I suggest there should be a gun that bridges the gap between the 9mm and Hand Cannon. Something like a .45 (MK23, Kimber, etc) that distributes more damage at the sacrifice of some clip size.

 

[9_6]

I just don't think a revolver would be anymore different, if not worse, than a Hand Cannon and therefore wouldn't that much of a great addition.

Which is why I suggest there should be a gun that bridges the gap between the 9mm and Hand Cannon. Something like a .45 (MK23, Kimber, etc) that distributes more damage at the sacrifice of some clip size.

Why does there need to be a bridge between what feels like a tier 2- and a tier 1 weapon?
Why does there need to be a machete in pistol form?

 

[NekoChrissy]

Now you realize how trivial this thread is, haha.

I see your point and I will throw down the function-card with a 3-round burst sidearm (generically a Glock). While a .45 would make a great middle-ground between the already present sidearms it is true that it wouldn't bring anything more to the sidearms other than being another "Machete" (which actually makes the revolver just as useless).

So I look to function. I think a machine pistol would be somewhat over-the-top and redundant since the Bullpup performs at the same level. I would rather have a sidearm that is capable of using a 3-round burst or have some other function.

It's like my suggestions for the Machete and Fireaxe. Rather than making new weapons just add functions to the weapons.

 

[Acemaster]

What's your point?
Just correcting me for the sake of correcting me?
You see those things, you think 'zombie'. End of story.
Hell one of the in game taunts even calls them 'zombies'.


Well actually in most games being cool is the whole point.
How else can you explain god of war, resident evil 4 etc?


Stop with that nonsense rant. I didn't suggest a freaking laser gun or anything.

Also when did I ever mention a caliber?
Because of you I wasted a minute of my time searching for a revolver/magnum/handgun that has a larger caliber than the desert eagle.

There, 60 caliber wrist breaking goodness would this have a bigger punch than the 50 cal desert eagle?

I bet someone deeper in the matter than me can come up with a more handy handgun with the same sort of punch or we just stop whining about what absolutely doesn't matter at all, I was thinking of a shooter with an actual place in the game and gameplay in mind because that's what we're talking about, a game, not some gun-nut gibberish reasoning why this wouldn't be 'realistic' based on calibers or whatever because most people don't give a damn about that, they just wanna shoot zombies and be awesome.
Now thank you for wasting my time on that.

By the way, mr. the-game-must-make-sense, grenades have a blast radius of 10 meters -not including shrapnel- and there isn't much left of a body if you stand even 5 meters close to one going off.
In-game, a single grenade that goes off right in the face of a clot doesn't kill it.
How do the way grenades act in the game make 'sense' to you but but a revolver being stronger than a desert eagle not?
How do heads popping from the shot of a 9mm make sense to you?
Hell, how does a freaking crossbow bolt being 10 times stronger than a rocket make sense to you?
I can only assume that you believe everything in the game makes perfect sense since my intrusive introduction of a magnum as a handgun with a bigger punch would totally devastate that fine balance.

Also, speaking of 'realism', it has been mentioned multiple times that chainsaws would be more lethal to the user than to the victim if used as a weapon because they're not designed for cutting meat, how does it make sense to you that they're supposed to be stronger than an instrument that has been designed to cut through meat and to be used as a weapon?

I won't even go into magical welders that weld glass and wood and mysterious syringes that heal any kind of wound instantly.


Seriously don't go "this isn't realistic" on me.

THIS!!.
I see you didnt respond to this.

 

[Drizzo]

C'mon, clearly this thread is here to just give sharpshooters an automatic/burst fire weapon

Or to include a weapon that won't be used anyway once you have an EBR.

 

[nath2009uk]

They are not ZOMBIES. They are mutated human abominations of SCIENCE aka Specimens.

They are NOT MUTATED HUMAN ABOMINATIONS OF SCIENCE, they are clones, of Kevin's Son, IIRC.

 

[9_6]

While a .45 would make a great middle-ground between the already present sidearms it is true that it wouldn't bring anything more to the sidearms other than being another "Machete" (which actually makes the revolver just as useless).

Why would it make the stronger tier 3 pistol just as useless as a weaker tier 1.5 pistol?
Am I missing something?
Oh or are you still on that "for some reason the revolver mustn't be stronger than the desert eagle and thus would be useless" trip?

 

[Ihmhi]

I think the next new perk will be some kind of pistol thing. They'll add a Tier 3 pistol better than the Dual Deagles.

As for an automatic pistol, IMO that would fall more under the kinda thing that would be suited for the Medic (since they seem to be giving him SMGs, thankfully... now he just needs a Tier 2 and Tier 3 weapon.)