Piss-poor teamwork and general player behavior

[Squad Leader]

If you play with the same team consistantly and they understand what role/position they are, team work would go up. I noticed recently server admins will take LMG and spawn camp and let whoever take over leadership positions. And then they don't understand why they are losing and start *****ing! Very frustrating.

 

[Stormer]

You won't see any teamplay in this game, it's made perfect for lone wolfs. 40km/h running, insta IS, no fatigue while aiming, just perfect.

 

[DasFist]

We need a server to host a dedicated TWI forum game night with passwords.

You sign up on forums, and are send a PM with details and password.

This prevents random players from joining.

or just have an irc pickup channel, type !join get added to list, when list is full get pm'd server/ts details.

works for every other competitive fps

 

[Cyper]

you seem to have conveniently set aside the multiple annoyances though, let me see, pixel hunting (fun but gives you eye strain), inability to differentiate between a suspicious looking twig and the enemy at 50 yards, small stones could block your progress, MG tracer lasers beams, too much weapons sway, movement too slow, ping pong tanks, atrocious nade spam, a zillion pointless textures and sound modifications to download for every map and the god awful, ever present panting having run more than 5 yards...otherwise it was great.

These issues are minor compared to the gameplay itself in RO2.

 

[Josef Nader]

These issues are minor compared to the gameplay itself in RO2.

Minor because you spent 6 years getting used to them. They're the norm for you. Quite a few of us want something a little better than eyestrain and drunken soldiers staggering around taking badly-aimed shots at each other.

 

[Cyper]

Minor because you spent 6 years getting used to them. They're the norm for you. Quite a few of us want something a little better than eyestrain and drunken soldiers staggering around taking badly-aimed shots at each other.

Minor issues compared to the weaponhandling seen in RO2 which makes every player a supermega sharpshooter star pressing tactical view and rushing at their objective before this incredible bastard child called lockdown timer runs out and ruin the whole game, plus the short timelimit, the simplified health system, the simplified command radial menu, and the cheats (skillpoints) the players earn for simply playing the game.

 

[FoulOleRon]

Teamwork in RO2 feels much the same as RO1 teamwork to me. Sometimes you're on a team who knows what they're doing and people go about their business without anybody really directing things but there's enough people doing the right thing so they win. Other times you're on a team who don't really know what their doing or who don't care to do what needs to be done and you usually lose the map. VOIP is rarely used similar to RO1.

The difference is that with RO1 most people knew all the map, knew the game mechanics inside out, etc. so the chances of finding a team who went through the right motions without actually performing organised teamwork are higher than that with RO2 at the moment. Other games like Arma and PR make much better use of VOIP and organised team work even on pub servers. A player coming from either one of those games and who never played RO1 is going to be disappointed in that regard. If you played RO1 I can't think there'd be much surprise.

 

[Oz.]

Really?

In all my experiences with PR, I never once heard anybody using communication or their mic..... then again, I hardly ever came across a very populated server and hardly ever saw an enemy on the map, let alone anybody to follow or for them to follow me.... I was always on my own..... far more than I am in RO2, which isn't often.

Lol?
Either you had your voip muted or you're just lying. In PR having a mic is essential and no normal squad will accept you if you dont speak after joining or ask about what gear you should take. If you dont have a mic youll be most likely just kicked out of the squad.
Wont even comment further part because it simply indicates you didnt play PR like, uh, at all, since everyone playing it have to play it as squads just out of pure reason of spawn system, which allows you to spawn on rally points of your own squad and noone elses (there are also FOBs of course but thats another matter). You cant even get proper gear other than basic rifleman if youre not in a squad.

So rather than blaming them for moving on and trying to do something other than camp one building like you were doing, maybe you should blame yourself for not paying attention and going with them.

Tried joining up on the zerg rush, to no avail in terms of sane teamplay, they mostly just run off and die, should I go with them and call it teamplay?

Why should everybody cater to what "You" want them to do?

If you think RO players don't know how to play as a team, maybe you should lead by example, take the Squad Leader or Commander class, start giving orders and leading the charge.

I'm a new player and I dont know maps really well. In my experience also commanders are just ignored and used as mobile arty dropping facility, nothing more (just like in BF2, only there commander actually could make something happen). Squad leaders are non existant in terms of squad leading.

That makes no sense. How do you blame the spawn system when it's basically the exact same thing as in BF or PR?

Because in here it takes you 30 sec, and not 10 min like in PR, to get to the front, from the main base. People are not punished for dying like idiots while rushing so they just keep doing it.

You die, you spawn on a SL or Spawn Point, you move forward, eventually you die again and wait in Spawn Q..... repeat.

Exactly. Also, whoever thought it was good idea to allow spawning on SL who's under fire or has enemies just next to him should think again, another giant flaw of this game.

 

[Pertsa]

Originally Posted by Pertsa
Removing kills from scoreboard would be the first step. Now so many casual/new players, who don't really understand the game mechanics think, that they are actually doing proper job. Even if they are at the bottom of the scoreboard, they compare themselves with the top scorers with equal amounts of kills and wonder "how that noob with only 10 kills has three times more score than me" without questioning possibility that they might be doing something wrong.

You have noticed that TWI tried very much (if not their best) to use ^^ (scoreboard) to improve the team play, right?
Did you ever notice that for most part (unless camping at spawn tank is involved) the top players are those going after objectives, and doing so with their team. Right?
Simple math to show the rewards given:

• One Kill = 2 points
• One Kill from objective, enemy outside objective = 2 + 2 (from bonus) = 4 points
  ...

Reading my own message again makes it obvious, that I wasn't clear with the point I was trying to make. I am aware how the score system works, as I'm without many exceptions among the very top scorers. Lets try again.

People use kill count to compensate their lack of team-points. Someone with 20 kills and 50 team-points often thinks, that they are doing at least as well as a person with 10 kills and 200 team-points. The game falsely rewards "wrong" gameplay, because it's easy to ignore actual score and make yourself believe you should be in the top with so many kills.

There are usually two different battles going on in the map. The decisive around objectives, and the other in some random corner of the map where useless (team wise) people attack and counter attack positions of opposing teams useless players. These side fights don't always affect the main fight at all, but can give many kills for skilled (not good in RO2 terms) players.


I personally think Team Fortress 2 has a perfect scoreboard (also the chat-box, but that's a matter of different thread). In public you only see total points, but you also see all the necessary info about yourself. This prevents the "false rewarding" with the kills and keeps support classes equally balanced with the heavies. Medic is the most important class in TF2 and is often the top scorer, but rarely gets any kills. I dare to say, that many newbies would disregard his value and score if they would see 0 kills next to his name.

 

[Carfax]

Most of the problems with team work you mention occur in other realism type games such as arma etc until you find a decent server with regular players and you start to recognise the team minded ones after a while.

Im not sure its the fault of the game for lack of team work, its the players.Keep looking about and joining various servers, believe me there are some very good team players out there and several decent servers with a regular crowd who are more interested in winning than just killing stuff.

Good luck finding the game play your after and dont lose hope it is out there even in this early stage of the game.

 

[Krasnyiarmyet]

These issues are minor compared to the gameplay itself in RO2.

We get it. You hate RO2.

Why are you still here, again?

 

[nebsif]

We get it. You hate RO2.

Why are you still here, again?

Because TWI got my doosh and ive got a different game than the one they promised.

 

[Jorg Biermann1]

I completely agree with the lack of teamwork. I'm going to be honest and say that in my opinion the lack of teamwork is sort of due to the fast pace gameplay (Now I know theres games with fast paced gameplay that have alot of teamwork like TF2 but its different).

In RO:Ost with the slow pace games you needed teamwork to actually get something done in the match. Of course saying that there's always the people who have the idiot tactics of "Throw Smoke! Die! More Smoke! Smoke Smoke Smoke!!!".

Tripwire's attempt at making gameplay with the squad system and spawning on Squad Leader was a good attempt but it just doesn't work. I rarely see people in my actual squad together while playing and the spawing on squad leader (When it works) is just a closer spawn.

Little things like saying "Enemy on the right side" Or telling someone that you're throwing a grenade into a room before you assault sometimes help other people start to get more tactical.

It's sometimes good when me and some guys from 305. all get on Ventrilo and stick together in a game with a big map (Like Red October or Commisars). Normally you get one or two pubbers who stick with our group and help us out, that's always good fun.

 

[Oz.]

Okay, so I played ROOST a bit. I liked it far more than RO2.

First of all, netcode is so much better. I didnt notice a single situation like "uh, but I just placed half of my clip in him and he's still running". At least in here when you're guarding a corner and someone jumps out in front of your aimed weapon, he's most likely dead. Not teleporting and spraying bullets, like in RO2.

Second, oh man, these MGs just mow people down. Its so cool. I dont know if it's due to lower recoil while deployed or something else, but it makes the gameplay much more realistic.

Grenade spam is quite bad on the other hand, seems to me that you can throw nades just too far.

Weapon sway and lack of zoom of any sort makes gunfights much more static, which is very good. One thing I've noticed is that it takes you much longer to transition from moving to aiming down the ironsights, what is excellent too.

Maybe its just an illusion of teamplay because pretty much everything goes around the MGs locking down an area but I like it a lot more. So for now RO2 takes a long break and RO (and Darkest Hour) stays.

PS. One thing that really annoys me is when you move your weapon when prone and it goes to "supported mode" on and off. It tends to screw my aim at times by changing the mouse sensitivity, doesnt seem natural.

 

[mattlach]

Give the game a few more months when the newness wears off and all the COD solo types wander away. The game will then shine once more with more cooperative teamplay and less solo Rambo.

Agreed.

I think we will see a vast improvement once BF3 launches. A lot of the kiddies will move on to the next best thing, and leave us to enjoy this masterpiece.

As for using the VOIP, I'm as guilty as any for not using the mic. This is only because I just moved into a very small apartment and my wife is usually no more than 10 ft. away at any given moment and she f***ing hates me playing this game.

Ditto. My wife does not understand games at all. She thinks they are all childish and stupid and I get **** whenever I play one. For some reason this sentiment does not apply to Angry Birds or scrabble though

She is very competitive though, and I think that if she actually tried one, she'd be hooked.

It's like the people who are new to Red Orchestra still have not learned how the game works...even a month after release.

Don't underestimate how complicated this game is if you are not used to it.

I played Ostfront for a little bit back when it was new, and enjoyed it, but haven't played it for a LONG time. Now I've played RO2 for just over 30 hours (this is as much as I've been able to squeeze in since launch, I pre ordered the game), and I feel like I have finally started to understand the game, and relearn some of what I'd forgotten from Ostfront.

It's the holiday season, and big titles are flying fast and thick.

It is? What holiday? Halloween?

 

[AmazingMilto]

That's scary, and a problem. He wants to murder people? Probably why I don't play games with FFA.

...Be afraid!

 

[Josef Nader]

I personally think Team Fortress 2 has a perfect scoreboard (also the chat-box, but that's a matter of different thread). In public you only see total points, but you also see all the necessary info about yourself. This prevents the "false rewarding" with the kills and keeps support classes equally balanced with the heavies. Medic is the most important class in TF2 and is often the top scorer, but rarely gets any kills. I dare to say, that many newbies would disregard his value and score if they would see 0 kills next to his name.

Exactly. TF2 rewards players for playing the way the class is supposed to be played. Engineers and Medics are positively dismal in combat (provided the engie isn't protected by his SG), and would probably be totally ignored if they had a traditional K ratio. TF2 manages to make them very desirable, as not only do they often score top in the server, but it's safe to say that a team without a good engie and medic going against a team WITH a good engie and medic might as well have not even shown up.

 

[teapot156]

Looks like you bought the wrong RO. Purchase the first one then download Darkest Hour.

 

[JoelTrog]

PR has spoiled me. I don't know what that guy was talking about though... every squad I've joined that's worth a damn is on mic often and frequently. Sure there are squads of nubs here and there, but it's as easy as asking a locked squad to let you in and voila, you are set.

Maybe as the game matures we will get a good community of pub, I don't know. I do know however that if I join PR, and stick with my squad, they are not going to go sprinting into the sunset at the first sight of enemy. In fact it will be "Enemy at 165, hold your fire... Okay, let them cross the road a bit... FIRE!" *Enemy dead, survivor limps off maybe* All the while we can count on the guy who was guarding our back to continue guarding our backs.

This game could take some lessons from PR, the 5 second run to action, perfect quickdraw shooting, all of that contributes to this feeling like half the game I had hoped for.

Some people (Josef Nader) will talk about how realistic the action is... but it's not. Read some accounts from the battles, people do not hit their targets like this. The guns do, but the people don't.

I will say that the game should improve drastically once they release the SDK, bigger maps mean longer walks mean more caution.

 

[Holy.Death]

Problem with teamwork is often done by the players themselves.

I've got headset, because I did play in Left 4 Dead series and it was much easier and better to simply say things rather than write them down while being under attack from the zombies. There I also learn how important teamwork and communication between teammates is.

In Red Orchestra 2? Sometimes I get into servers where other players are asking: "How to mute someone?". When I read something like that I know how non-teamworking such players are and when I have no response or negative response then I either quit or play in silence.

However, I had my share of matches where people were WILLING to communicate/teamplay. Even if they didn't have the microphone to make use of VOIP they used chatbox and followed orders/suggestions. With great results too. I remember coordinating artillery strikes with commander who was using chatbox only. It's possible to play teamwork games, but you need to jump into right kind of people.

I think that some things could has been done differently, to make teamplay more obvious - like in Left 4 Dead - but even in its current state, potential for teamwork is still there, you'll have find the people who are willing to teamplay and when you do it's a whole lot better game for me.