Picking up armed grenades

[Colt .45 killer]

Ok, so you pick up the grenade and toss it back. You kill two enemy. Who gets credit? Does the original "owner" of the grenade get penalized for two TK's? Or does the guy tossing the grenade back get credit for two kills?

Next scenario: you pick up the grenade and toss it back. It explodes as it leaves your hand and kills you and a nearby teammate. Or, you toss it and, oops, two of your teammates have run to where you are tossing it. Do you get penalized for two TK's? Or does the original "owner" get credit for two kills?

soln 1
re thrown grenades give points to either of the two throwers for any kills of opposing team mates. IE nade is thrown and re thrown. Kills one german and one russian, the kills are awarded one to each of the two throwers.
HOWEVER to combat teamkilling for points via grenade rethrowing if any player is killed by a teamates grenade re throw more then once they have the option to treat it as a TK thus getting the person kicked from server for tking.

soln 2
the grenade belons to who last threw it, appologize for rethrown grenades as people currently appologize for dead nades, people get over it and keep fighting.

 

[Idiot]

I don't think it makes too much of a difference. Most good players in RO cook their nades anyways so you are dead right after it lands.

If this was implemented there would just be a bunch of noobs standing up in the middle of a firefight blocking your line of sight because they think the only way to get rid of a nade is throw it back instead of taking cover.

PS These are the same noobs that try to pick up a fallen player's weapon and just stand up in the middle of the street and get nailed. OR they stop and turn around to pick up their weapon after it was shot out of their hand. LOL

 

[Felix Ostheim]

I still see the same hypothetical, cynical argument against throwing back. It's a bit like saying leave artillery out of the game because it might cause teamkills or block your vision. Some people are going to do stupid things no matter what. Players are expected to learn how to shoot well, how to use cover, how long to cook grenades for, how to work as a team etc. I think the 'dumb noob' canard is a bit played don't you think? We're talking about a game where you can adjust the range on your rifle sight, I think we can handle this throw back thing.

 

[Oldih]

t's a bit like saying leave artillery out of the game because it might cause teamkills or block your vision. Some people are going to do stupid things no matter what.

Only key diffrence being not every player has access to artillery, while nadetillery is another story. If RO:Ost is to be used as remote base picking up grenades would be silly due the nature of things, but if they have completely redone grenades and some other things (note Colt .45's note about randomised fuses etc) it would be far more reasonable.

There's plenty of things or features which usually works in combination with some other features or implementations rather than just on their own.

 

[Direct]

You guys are making false assumptions, even though a majority of people cook their grenades they dont ALWAYS cook them.

For example when youre in the middle of the fire fight youd rather throw 2 grenades then lean out as fast as possible to gun down the people running away from grenades instead of hoping that one precise blast will kill someone.

 

[213]

not worth implementing. all you'll get is a bunch of people with blown off arms

 

[SonLoki]

I have played day of defeat for 5 years now, and there u can pick up enemy grenades and throw them back.

It happend very rare and is difficult. There is no indicator for them. U have to decide quickly if u see an enemy grenade next to u.

Most of the times I run away from them, only if there is no other way.

More tks are done with "deathnades" as with thrown back grenades.

So I don't think it will change the gameplay very much and I doubt many people will try to pick them up.

It can save ur life in some situations and it is realistic, so it should be in HoS.

 

[Taisenki]

not worth implementing. all you'll get is a bunch of people with blown off arms

Worth implementing because you will get a bunch of people with blown off arms

---

So, Guys. You are pinned down. A grenade lands next to you. The grenade is a special model which says "Has a fuse timer of 17 years"

You must sit next to that grenade for 17 years. As you are not allowed to touch the grenade. Touching grenades are forbidden. It is the law not touch grenades that will kill you. Unsanctioned use of grenade touching is bad.


Seriously guys. Your all talking about the wrong thing.

The most awesome things in games happen because they happen RARELY. The one time throwing a grenade back does work it will be one of those "Highlights" of the game that you and your friends laugh about over ventrilo.

Secondly, If throwing grenades back is an option then more people will result to cooking grenades. This means less "Grenade tickle tap tap clunk" noises of grenades bouncing near you followed by a moment of panic. These moments are awesome in themself.

-

Now decide. Which kind of feel do you want more?

 

[REZ]

If a grenade has a timer of 17 years then I'm just gonna get up and walk away

If I'm able to throw grenades back, then as soon as I see someone switching to a grenade I'm going to close distance and put myself in a position of throwing it back - everytime. If he see's that I'm anticipating this and decides to cook it, then I'll run right up to him and force him to throw it... then, either he blows himself up with his own nade or I throw it back.

It introduces a totally unrealistic response in players when they are allowed to do this kind of stuff. You know no one fears death in a video game, so they'll be trying to throw back nades all the time. I know I will. When you start seeing it happen 10-20 times a round you'll ask yourself why you ever wanted this in game. Sure it may have happened in extremely rare situations in WWII, but rarely.. you'd see it happen in game MUCH more than it ever really happened.

Bottom line is it will cause people to play in a reckless manner.. causing people to do things no soldier would ever do.. just for the lulz or the uber-pwn moment of throwing back nades. Is that the kind of gameplay you guys want to see? People running up to live nades to pick them up and throw them back (successful or not)? Having a high ratio of your nades returned to you? Being forced to perfectly cook your nade in order to ever kill anyone with one? All of these negative aspects to gameplay just so you can throw a nade away in those rare few moments when you are prone and one lands within arms reach?

 

[Zetsumei]

Well in other games that had the ability to throw back a grenade it didn't seem to cause any major unbalance. People generally do not find it fun to throw back grenades as its bothersome.

So based on my experience with other games I say put it in, and in the case it would indeed get abused it could be removed in the beta period. But I highly doubt it would become an issue.

I've had plenty of times had a grenade land next to me without any way to get away from it literary waiting for it to blow up and that's something you wouldn't do in real life. So it would be beneficial.

And indeed if like in other games it doesn't cause any extreme fetch effect (beyond the initial introduction) then I think it would be neat to have.

 

[HeyCarnut]

Well in other games that had the ability to throw back a grenade it didn't seem to cause any major unbalance.

+1
One need only ask, for a game striving toward realism, "Can this happen in real life?". If it can, it should be in the game. Concerned that no real threat of "death" will spur players into grenade football? Simple. Make the "penalty" of "death" unpalatable: no respawns, you get to watch the rest of the game from the sidelines.

We do this often in coop games we play, and the result is much more realistic and thoughtful play by the participants.

Rob

 

[hockeywarrior]

Even though it is possible to do in real life, you still have to be VERY careful how you implement something like this because if it is done badly it could really hurt immersion. I would only support its inclusion if a feature like this could be done realistically without any "gamey" systems. See my post earlier:

This is the problem I have with a grenade pickup system.

It relies on the fact that for a system like this to work there has to be some sort of grenade indicator in place to let the user know that a grenade is within a "pickup-able" distance. This would kill gameplay scenarios where you just want to sneakily drop a grenade in a window or toss one amongst some unaware entrenched enemies. If they automatically knew there was a grenade right next to them, this would be case of the game giving the player too much information.

I would only be in favor of a system that didn't involve a grenade indicator, and would require the player to actually see the grenade in order to take action. As other people have mentioned, I'm sure in real life people would have ONLY tried to throw back a grenade if it literally landed right at their feet. Otherwise it would be much smarter just to get to cover.

 

[Reise]

There is no assumption that players would 'cook' grenades. They do it already and there is no tossing back. That is a fact. If grenades can be cooked, they will be. If grenades can be tossed back, people will battle to be the one throw them back. And that alone wouldl probably result in more people getting killed than had they run away. (The numbers attempting to toss them back may be an assumption, but it will happen....otherwise why bother to implement the feature).

I say leave it as it is. Grenade = haul ***.

Indeed. The gameplay implications of allowing people to throw back grenades are pretty cheesy. People wouldn't treat it like a last-second suicidal maneuver, they would jump on grenades any chance they got.

IIRC grenades have <5 second fuses. And I know soldiers were trained to get the hell away from anything that even resembled a grenade. So 1, you better be sure you're within that 5 second timeframe, 2, you'd have to be willing to commit suicide to throw it, and 3, it goes against typical soldier behavior.

And if I remember right, RO has tried to capture the most universal battlefield experience, staying away from hollywood heroics and such. So no thanks, I don't want to allow people to throw back grenades.

 

[Felix Ostheim]

Let's say you or someone in your squad throws a grenade but by some mistake it just rolls back towards the squad. An MG team is deployed adjacent to you and there is not enough time to warn them to move and to save yourself. A simple mistake like this could be dealt with both ingame and in reality by quickly grabbing up the grenade and tossing it away, without giving up your position or becoming more exposed to fire. Of course there is a high risk, but it's better than risking 3-4 players becoming wounded or kia either from the blast or from shrapnel.

If casualties were avoided in real situations like this you know it would be grounds for a valorous medal.

 

[HeyCarnut]

Even though it is possible to do in real life, you still have to be VERY careful how you implement something like this because if it is done badly it could really hurt immersion. I would only support its inclusion if a feature like this could be done realistically without any "gamey" systems. See my post earlier:

I did, and I agree with you 100%

Rob

 

[SonLoki]

If I'm able to throw grenades back, then as soon as I see someone switching to a grenade I'm going to close distance and put myself in a position of throwing it back - everytime. If he see's that I'm anticipating this and decides to cook it, then I'll run right up to him and force him to throw it... then, either he blows himself up with his own nade or I throw it back.

You dont know how long the enemy has cooked his grenade. As I wrote u have to decide quickly what u will do if u see a grenade next to you. And even with the ability to throw it back you will 90 % run away and only in situations where there is no way out you will pick them up and throw them back.

And if u try to run to an enemy that "cooks" his grenade, you will be probably shot by his teammates.

 

[Hypno Toad]

It could always be done so there's no option to actually "pick it up"

You could just use action button on the grenade, and your character would immediately toss it a short distance.

The trick would make making it so it can't be hurled 30 meters away, but more just "tossed" to get it out of your general vicinity, such as tossing it back out of a window to get it out of the room you are in. It should look as if your player is handling a huge piece of horse dung or something, he should want to get it out of his hand as quickly as possible.

 

[213]

ever try running in the opposite direction? i heard it works wonders.

 

[Felix Ostheim]

ever try running in the opposite direction? i heard it works wonders.

Give me the choice.

Let's say you or someone in your squad throws a grenade but by some mistake it just rolls back towards the squad. An MG team is deployed adjacent to you and there is not enough time to warn them to move and to save yourself. A simple mistake like this could be dealt with both ingame and in reality by quickly grabbing up the grenade and tossing it away, without giving up your position or becoming more exposed to fire. Of course there is a high risk, but it's better than risking 3-4 players becoming wounded or kia either from the blast or from shrapnel.

 

[Dwin]

Maybe. But most players are going to risk it more than they would irl because they don't care about their in game life and the possibility of getting the grenade off would be badass.

We've had this discussion before...

My opinion is that it would change the gameplay in a not-so desireable way. People would be running up to grenades to pick them up... people would in turn master cooking... and on top of that no soldier in his right mind would ever try to do something so insane as to pick up a live grenade.

I highly doubt being able to pick up grenades will lead to people racing for the nearest live grenade to throw. If anyone here has ever played DoD, you would know that people rarely pick up enemy grenades. It only happens in dire situations where there is absolutely no escape, you might as well throw it back since you will definitely be dead if you don't. Yet, those time when you do manage to return an enemy grenade, it's just awesome.

Maybe instead of actually picking it up with your hands, pressing "use" on the grenade would kick it or punt it some distance away from you.