Petition to restore Realism and Authenticity

[kathmandu]

TWI can't make changes to the loadout? Of course they can, and they well should make a third optional loadout, and make it free for use via the webadmin for Realism and even Classic Mode. As well as allow the Classic Loadout to be used freely in Realism.

Please let me wear something diferent from the RUSSIAN HERO YEALLOW PIJAMAS!

 

[Giuliano]

Arg.. forget to mention that. Yes, an authentic loadout should allow for certain enemy weapons to be available, even if somewhat limited. So that the Germans get PPSh41's but not as many as the Russians.

Captured weapons: PPSh41 LVL 3, MP40 LVL 1, SVT-40, few DP-28s and few MG-34s (but not LVL 2 MG34, as that was terribly rare)

Honestly, I don't see any problems with the loadout you're proposing. I'd love to see this happen, it makes more sense the loadout we have at the moment.

 

[GRIZZLY]

I don't want to comment on changing features.... but authentic loadouts for realism are a must.

 

[Sarkis.]

I don't want to comment on changing features.... but authentic loadouts for realism are a must.

As long as they are fully optional, indeed they are. Without going custom or unranked. Allow me to say that even Classic could benefit a lot from such a loadout, again as an optional.

 

[PhoenixDragon]

Well, this is turning out to be about as productive as usual.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Seems that small changes are more popular than just one big change of the game. I'd say some ideas of this thread maybe quite many ideas would be taken a bit more serious if you'd just post them single, each idea one topic. Since the game is quite nice and I'd say better than RO1 people don't want to change it completely.

I just wanted to say I agree with this again, since it seems the more logical route to pursue, the more logical route to be taken seriously, and the more logical route that anything will be done with if at all.

RO1 featured the battles of Berlin, Odessa, Stalingrad, Leningrad, etc. And each battle had it's loadout.

In RO2 we only deal with the Battle of Stalingrad. And our Stalingrad loadout could be made more authentic. Be it a new optional ''authentic'' loadout or the classic loadout.

Would you not agree?

I noticed that you posted a loadout as a vanilla example of an authentic loadout. How does that compare to the current loadout using the current Realism as an example? Keep in mind the progression system and unlocks built into it that is very very unlikely to change. How different is it? EDIT: and keep in mind that TWI is most likely going to keep the Hero weapons in the mix...

 

[DeadVDr.Inks]

Tbh i think it is too late to introduce more game modes or make drastic changes to the existing ones. This should have been the emphasis of the gameplay at launch, if at all. If i had been in the shoes of TWI, i would have made one game mode, a gamemode that truly were a spiritual successor to the original RO (old features and new), and then allow server admins could customize it to their liking. At this point players have grown fond of certain gamemodes and they probably wouldn't like to see them be abolished though.

 

[Sarkis.]

At this point players have grown fond of certain gamemodes and they probably wouldn't like to see them be abolished though.

True, except for Action Mode.

I noticed that you posted a loadout as a vanilla example of an authentic loadout. How does that compare to the current loadout using the current Realism as an example? Keep in mind the progression system and unlocks built into it that is very very unlikely to change. How different is it? EDIT: and keep in mind that TWI is most likely going to keep the Hero weapons in the mix...

Hero weapons in RO2 are captured weapons. Mkb42 and AVT and such are veteran weapons. There are also crazy prototypes which are unlocks.

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. The weapons that are from the game and are absent in the loadout I posted:

MKb42 LVL 1,2,3 , had just began production by the time the Sixth Army was encircled, Stalingrad was also pretty far. It was never there.

AVT-40 LVL 1,2,3, , had been taken of the ranks and the ones which remained had full auto fire prohibited, was also damn rare. Could not attach a scope.

PPSh41 LVL1, box magazine began being deployed all over the front during Stalingrad so it was probably very rare.

PPSh41 LVL2, full auto only papashas are much later war, as all from the period where selective fire.

91/30 Sniper LVL1, PU scope had also just been introduced. Bayonets on sniper rifles are not kosher.

SVT-40 Sniper LVL 2,3 , 6x experimental PU never made it to the war.

M1895 LVL 2,3 , silencer...

MP40 LVL 2,3 , failed prototype, never made it to the war.

MG34 LVL 2, PT34 was rare and intended to vehicles and AA role, and hardly ever saw use as an infantry weapon.

K98k Sniper LVL 2,3 , Zielsechs scope was pretty damn rare.

G41 Sniper LVL 2,3 , ZF4 scope was never attached to the G41

C96 LVL 2,3 , also pretty damn rare variants of the C96.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Hero weapons in RO2 are captured weapons. Mkb42 and AVT and such are veteran weapons. There are also crazy prototypes which are unlocks.

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. The weapons that are from the game and are absent in the loadout I posted:

MKb42 LVL 1,2,3 , had just began production by the time the Sixth Army was encircled, Stalingrad was also pretty far. It was never there.

AVT-40 LVL 1,2,3, , had been taken of the ranks and the ones which remained had full auto fire prohibited, was also damn rare. Could not attach a scope.

PPSh41 LVL1, box magazine began being deployed all over the front during Stalingrad so it was probably very rare.

PPSh41 LVL2, full auto only papashas are much later war, as all from the period where selective fire.

91/30 Sniper LVL1, PU scope had also just been introduced. Bayonets on sniper rifles are not kosher.

SVT-40 Sniper LVL 2,3 , 6x experimental PU never made it to the war.

M1895 LVL 2,3 , silencer...

MP40 LVL 2,3 , failed prototype, never made it to the war.

MG34 LVL 2, PT34 was rare and intended to vehicles and AA role, and hardly ever saw use as an infantry weapon.

K98k Sniper LVL 2,3 , Zielsechs scope was pretty damn rare.

G41 Sniper LVL 2,3 , ZF4 scope was never attached to the G41

C96 LVL 2,3 , also pretty damn rare variants of the C96.

Oh, OK.

Personally I would prefer the more notable (notorious?) weapons, such as the MKB not be there, at least in Classic mode. It is one of those things I think irked many former ROOST players and the fact it was left in when TWI made that mode didn't help with its popularity. But enough of that, endless posts have been made about it.

For Classic mode at least, they 'turned off' and simplified most of the weapon selections. Do you mean something similar to that?

The other weapons and unlocks are most likely going to stay whether they were real or imaginary, rare or abundant. One reason is obvious, the progression system and its unlocks. The other which you are probably aware of is that TWI loves their weapons and variations of them. You can see that in the other games of ROOST and Killing Floor. I'm fairly certain because of that, they will stay. Its not a gamebreaker for me when I do play Realism, but it is just one of the reasons I prefer Classic.

 

[Sarkis.]

For Classic mode at least, they 'turned off' and simplified most of the weapon selections. Do you mean something similar to that?

There is really no reason why not to be able to select your unlocks. I don't understand why that is so in Classic. Obviously, discounting the unlocks that should not be in Classic, just as the ones that should not be in an authentic loadout should be discounted.

The other weapons and unlocks are most likely going to stay whether they were real or imaginary, rare or abundant. One reason is obvious, the progression system and its unlocks. The other which you are probably aware of is that TWI loves their weapons and variations of them. You can see that in the other games of ROOST and Killing Floor. I'm fairly certain because of that, they will stay. Its not a gamebreaker for me when I do play Realism, but it is just one of the reasons I prefer Classic.

The idea behind having an authentic loadout is not to be under what TWI wanted to see in game, it is to be under what the history books tell us. To increase authenticity.

It isn't a game breaker for Realism but it also makes Realism feel more like a cheap mainstream ''choose any weapon'' clone. Russians with MP40/IIs and Germans with Sniper AVT-40s, you know what I mean..

A third loadout in the shape of an authentic loadout should be optional to be used inside Realism and Classic, maybe even Action Mode. I really don't know how it would relate to the progression system inside Realism, but perhaps it would be best if it didn't, the same way as it doesn't in Classic. Or maybe some mixture where personal unlocks apply (the ones that are not anachronistic) but at the same time no one needs to unlock the PPSh41 drum or bayonets or anything that was commonly available at Stalingrad, although that option is way more complicated.

Realism Mode simply needs an Authentic Loadout. And TWI pretty much promised that:

Quite... adding in some fluff that can be excluded easily if you want to is fun. Trust us.

We haven't been quite able to easily exclude none of the fluff until this point.

 

[Coopsta]

I certainly support the authentic loadout option for Realism but I do not support any new modes. Also, hypothetically, what would differentiate OP's new mode with more focus on realism and authenticity from the improved Classic mode with changes for more focus on realism and authenticity? Is there any better way to fracture a community than having multiple options that are almost identical? I voted No.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

There is really no reason why not to be able to select your unlocks. I don't understand why that is so in Classic. Obviously, discounting the unlocks that should not be in Classic, just as the ones that should not be in an authentic loadout should be discounted.

That was and is a very big deal for those people (I'm one of those people) who want ROHOS to have a similar gameplay feel to ROOST. Overall the unlocks and progression system with their bonuses create an uneven playing field between newer and veteren player (even if it isn't much), and it wasn't very realistic. Its why you have seen all the remove the MKB threads etc etc. For the most part, Classic player don't care for the silly unlocks and weapon tweaks, its just that simple.

The idea behind having an authentic loadout is not to be under what TWI wanted to see in game, it is to be under what the history books tell us. To increase authenticity.

It isn't a game breaker for Realism but it also makes Realism feel more like a cheap mainstream ''choose any weapon'' clone. Russians with MP40/IIs and Germans with Sniper AVT-40s, you know what I mean...

See the explanation above for why ROOST players wanted it that way in Classic!

I agree its not a gamebreaker, but since Realism mode is the premier mode for ROHOS and the most popular, it is Extremely unlikely they will be removing it or reducing its features. Most likely they will eventually add even more weapons, since TWI has stated they love weapons, plus it will expand the possibilities for scenarios outside of the Stalingrad time period.

A third loadout in the shape of an authentic loadout should be optional to be used inside Realism and Classic, maybe even Action Mode. I really don't know how it would relate to the progression system inside Realism, but perhaps it would be best if it didn't, the same way as it doesn't in Classic. Or maybe some mixture where personal unlocks apply (the ones that are not anachronistic) but at the same time no one needs to unlock the PPSh41 drum or bayonets or anything that was commonly available at Stalingrad, although that option is way more complicated.

Now I don't know if that is even possible without Extensive, lengthy and (since TWI is a business) expensive reworking of the entire system.

With that said and keeping in mind that we all know the progression system will stay in for Action and Realism (you won't like the next part...), are the changes worth it for all involved? Will it be noticable enough to go thru all the effort time and expense? Is it worth delaying other things TWI is working on that many other people are waiting for, such as content updates, that are known and proven things that help increase sales, keep the game fresh, and help retain the player base? My personal answer would be No, and I am guessing that most players out there would also say that.

So, I will add again, the weapon loadout is one of the reasons I prefer Classic mode....

We haven't been quite able to easily exclude none of the fluff until this point.

I would agree up to the point (with the Current system) that certain server settings (fluff as it was called) should probably not unrank servers.

 

[Sarkis.]

See the explanation above for why ROOST players wanted it that way in Classic!

I agree its not a gamebreaker, but since Realism mode is the premier mode for ROHOS and the most popular, it is Extremely unlikely they will be removing it or reducing its features. Most likely they will eventually add even more weapons, since TWI has stated they love weapons, plus it will expand the possibilities for scenarios outside of the Stalingrad time period.

Who's talking about reducing? We're talking about adding more freedom of option.

Now I don't know if that is even possible without Extensive, lengthy and (since TWI is a business) expensive reworking of the entire system.

Of course it is.

With that said and keeping in mind that we all know the progression system will stay in for Action and Realism (you won't like the next part...), are the changes worth it for all involved? Will it be noticable enough to go thru all the effort time and expense? Is it worth delaying other things TWI is working on that many other people are waiting for, such as content updates, that are known and proven things that help increase sales, keep the game fresh, and help retain the player base? My personal answer would be No, and I am guessing that most players out there would also say that.

What!? Of course they are. It is one of the most worthy things that they should do! They should have done that months ago!

So, I will add again, the weapon loadout is one of the reasons I prefer Classic mode....

And any authentic loadout is much superior to the one in Classic.

I would agree up to the point (with the Current system) that certain server settings (fluff as it was called) should probably not unrank servers.

It should also not make it Custom.

 

[=GG= Mr Moe]

Who's talking about reducing? We're talking about adding more freedom of option.

Just my choice of words. Altering would have been better word.

Of course it is.

You yourself have admitted that you have no coding experience, so you are only speculating that it is quick and easy. Perhaps wishful thinking?

What!? Of course they are. It is one of the most worthy things that they should do! They should have done that months ago!

That is fine, it is your opinion if you and possibly others think it is worth it. We certainly are all entitled to our opinion. Mine in this case, just happens to be No.

And any authentic loadout is much superior to the one in Classic.

Again, that is your opinion which is fine, I accept that. I actually like the Classic loadout with the exception of the MKB.

It should also not make it Custom.

I would prefer you be able to see the actual custom settings in the server information box when you look at the game's browser. The name Custom means nothing to me in that it is a name only.

 

[HellsJanitor]

Voted No.

It's really reached the point where I just have to look at the name "Sarkis" as the starting post for a poll to know what I'm about to see.

Then he gets banned, comes back a month later, and repeats the process.

Has this really been going on for a year now?

 

[Nezzer]

I've been telling you for a long time, Sarkis. You are just wasting your time trying to encourage others to make a mod or TWI to make changes themselves. Most of the realism community left and those who remained learned to accept RO2 as it is, because TWI isn't going to change it anymore. RO2 will never get more realistic than it already is, neither in your concept of realism, nor in Moe's, nor in mine, unless some modder gets his hands dirty and convinces the community and TWI to change it all with a great mod, but I have lost a lot of hope for improvement. I'm saving my breath for RO3 if they ever make it. I still hope new content brings more fun to me, but I doubt I'll ever have as much fun with RO2 as I had with RO1.

 

[Ducky]

I've been telling you for a long time, Sarkis. You are just wasting your time trying to encourage others to make a mod or TWI to make changes themselves. Most of the realism community left and those who remained learned to accept RO2 as it is, because TWI isn't going to change it anymore. RO2 will never get more realistic than it already is, neither in your concept of realism, nor in Moe's, nor in mine, unless some modder gets his hands dirty and convinces the community and TWI to change it all with a great mod, but I have lost a lot of hope for improvement. I'm saving my breath for RO3 if they ever make it. I still hope new content brings more fun to me, but I doubt I'll ever have as much fun with RO2 as I had with RO1.

Posting ideas and then sit and wait for TWI or a modder to pick them up is not how things work. I've suggested to him more than once to assemble a modding team that can implement his ideas. Was that done? There are no modding or coding skills required to assemble a modding team. A good start would be to start a thread in the modding section and ask whom of the modders/coders is interested in joining such a team.

 

[Blitzk.-Bob]

Posting ideas and then sit and wait for TWI or a modder to pick them up is not how things work. I've suggested to him more than once to assemble a modding team that can implement his ideas. Was that done? There are no modding or coding skills required to assemble a modding team. A good start would be to start a thread in the modding section and ask whom of the modders/coders is interested in joining such a team.

Indeed!
Waiting for others never works, if you and the realism community are interested to bring more realism to the game, ask for people, get a few skilled people, depending on what is needed and start working.
Start with some small changes, attract new people to it try it out!

If problems occur, I'm sure the forum member would help and TWI too...waiting for TWI to work for you is not the way dreams become true.

 

[utek]

Indeed!
Waiting for others never works, if you and the realism community are interested to bring more realism to the game, ask for people, get a few skilled people, depending on what is needed and start working.
Start with some small changes, attract new people to it try it out!

If problems occur, I'm sure the forum member would help and TWI too...waiting for TWI to work for you is not the way dreams become true.

wasn't this Tripwires job,to make a "real" RED ORCHESTRA game and not some...hmmm...well...RO2...

Dont get me wrong,i really love the game,but i can enjoy just a small % of it,and this is CLASSIC mode,its the only thig that comes close to this red orchestra feeling

this so called "realism" mode is just like super hardcore Call of Duty mode.
its super fast split second aim down sights no weapon sway spawn on squad leaders *** run n gun gamemode with ridiculously rare and unrealistic unlocks.

and the "kindergarten" mode i have no words for this ****.

+the singleplayer is meh...why even make a SP in a multiplayer focused game.
they should only make a singleplayer boot camp for basic training,class and weapon training like america's army.
+practice mode with bots.

 

[GnaM]

Maybe what'd be best is to start a discussion of which features and changes the community would most like to see in a RO2 "improved realism" mod project. If there is enough consensus, and enough people like the ideas being discussed, surely a few people with coding skills may step up to the plate.