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Perk revival idea

Paulter

Member
Oct 30, 2020
6
2
Hello Killing Floor community!

I've played KF2 for quite a few weeks now, (all of them are around the rank ~20 range). So far I'm really liking the game aside from not being to join through server browser because its a little buggy in the EGS version D:)

Anyways, after browsing several steam discussion posts and the subreddit, I noticed a cetain post talking about the scrapped perk, the MARTIAL ARTIST. I had a little shower thought of the structure of the perk

XP objectives
Dealing damage with perk weapons
Killing Sirens with perk weapons
Perk Bonuses:
+1% perk weapon damage per level (capped at lvl 10)
+0.6% movement speed per level (capped at lvl 15)
+take extra knockback from heavy melee attacks(scrakes/fleshpounds/boss melee attacks)
+Clots are unable to grab you
+1% attack speed per level(capped at lvl 15)

Starting weapons: 9mm, Katana,Stilletto, Masking grenades(I will explain this later on)
Skirmisher
Moves 25% faster and sprints 20% faster when using a perk weapon.Regens 2hp per second
Level 5Steadfast
Suffer from no movement speed loss based on remaining HP, starts regenerating once in critical stages at 2hp per second
Flurry
Attack speed increases by 5% after every consecutive hit with perk weapons for 10 seconds, can be stacked 4 times. Parrying gives 2 stacks
Level 10Retaliate
Increases attack speed by 5% after getting hit for 10 seconds, can be stacked 5 times. Parrying gives 2 stacks
Rejuvenator
Masking grenades now gain the effect that heals players standing in the gas for 1hp per tick, gas can calm down raging zeds, larger zeds require longer exposure to activate
Level 15Zed Irritant
Masking grenades now gain the effect that causes zeds in the gas to become aggressive to other zeds,larger zeds require longer exposure to activate
Weakness finder
Consecutive hits to the limbs increases stumble power and increases damage by 1%(damage stacks for 5 times for 3 seconds)
Level 20Disabler
Hitting the limbs of zeds weakens their attack speed and damage for 2 seconds, consecutive hits increases the chance of zeds not being able to use their special moves
Fury
During zed time, attack speed is now in real time and doubled
Level 25Head on
During zed time, movement is now in real time, enemy collision is ignored , "collided" enemies are stunned for the entire duration of zed time

Masking grenade effects: When it is thrown, it produces a translucent yellow gas that makes players go unoticed by zeds , it does not work on already raging big zeds

If Rejunevator is selected: Produces a gas similar to that of the medic's grenade

If Zed irritant is selected: Produces a translucent purple gas that causes zeds to go aggressive on other zeds(they ignore players) if they are in the gas


Summary of Martial Artist:
This perk's highlight is to move really quickly and single out non big zed enemies that causes a threat to the team Eg: Sirens, Husks, Bloats
Due to their quick attacking nature and skills, they can quickly prevent special abilities from being used(self destruct from husks/siren scream/bloat puke)
The "extra knockback" from heavy attacks makes them able to quickly escape from a messy takedown
Masking grenades offer team support


PS:From what I interpret from beserker's skills, it is more of doing high damage/heavy swings etc while being able to take some beating or being a meatshield by taking resistance over parry (I might be wrong about this)

As this is the first time I'm making a perk suggestion, there might be some parts that might be overpowered/underpowered


Anyways, what do you guys think about this perk?
Any improvements/criticism?
 
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Just noticed a few typo errors in my post, oh wells, I can't seem to edit now
Click on the dots ... at the bottom, next to the report button, click on save afterwards.

Regarding your post, I’ve wanted a Martial artist perk for ages now. I wanted the perk to be a master of combos, they’re weak hitters but can chain together their moves, making them deadly.

I also wanted a Heavy gunner perk, making you move faster with a LMG, and dual wielding the LMG for accuracy. Also having the ability to hold two subs at the same time.

I think Survivalist should be scrapped, and changed to a Scientist perk
 
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I do accept the idea of a martial artist perk. But some of the things you've said are things that already included in the game in the berserker class.
Moving faster comes as a skill from the berserker.
Masking grenades now gain the effect that heals players standing in the gas for 1hp per tick, gas can calm down raging zeds, larger zeds require longer exposure to activate
Medic grenades heal players and EMP calm down raged scrakes. Having that kind of grenade means mixing the two in one, maybe good.
Consecutive hits to the limbs increases stumble power and increases damage
Increased damage as you hit, that's new
"collided" enemies are stunned for the entire duration of zed time
I don't know what you mean by collided enemies, the game ensures there are no zeds colliding with each other so I'm confused about this.
Moves 25% faster and sprints 20% faster when using a perk weapon.Regens 2hp per second
This is similar to what the berserker has.
Masking grenades now gain the effect that causes zeds in the gas to become aggressive to other zeds
I would really love to see this one.
If I may, I think buying a weapon that allows you to be a martial artist would be easier? and it could be a berserker weapon.
 
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I don't know what you mean by collided enemies
enemies that you "collide into" basically those that you run into
This is similar to what the berserker has.
Well some perks can share the same skills, wouldn't hurt to slot that one in

Click on the dots ... at the bottom, next to the report button, click on save afterwards.
about that...I realized my other mistakes after I edited the post

Medic grenades heal players and EMP calm down raged scrakes. Having that kind of grenade means mixing the two in one, maybe good.
Well I was thinking of a non offensive grenade(that does not harm a zed) , EMP causes zeds to go a little wonky and they take damage from it, medic nade poisons zeds which are strong enough to kill trash while healing
the Rejuvenating effect only causes zeds that are angry(rally boosted from rioters/sprinting/fleshpound+scrake rage) to stop sprinting while minorly healing allies (1hp per tick isnt that strong as compared to the 5 per tick)
 
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Really happy to see some modern takes on either new perks or revisions of the old ones ! It's always a pleasure to ponder about them.

I personally always envisioned the Martial Artist as the polar opposite of the Zerk (just like the gunslinger and sharpshooter... or the commando and SWAT). In that case, the zerk would be a perk that uses his skills to tank and soak up damage, as well as draw the zeds' attention to him. With the addition ot stumbling, stunning or EMP-ing zeds for that very purpose. Unlike what most people seems to think, it ISN'T a killer perk. It's more akin to a supportive one. Meanwhile, the Martial Artist could use precise and heavy strikes that deals critical damages, but at the cost of being very fragile. One could see him as being the fastest perk of the bunch, but also one with little-to-nothing to increase his resistance or healing, meaning you have to strike fast and hard then back-up. Kinda similar to the role of the sharpshooter...But at dangerously close ranges.

This being said, let's explore your ideas !

>A melee-focused perk shouldn't have to kill sirens to boost its XP. It's like the antithesis of such a class. One could say that it rewards skill, as you'd have to wait for her to scream to move in safely. But still... That's too much hassle for what it is. I guess rewarding him per "critical strikes" (what I mentioned earlier) or maybe gorefasts would make more sense (swordfighting! yay!)

>Judging how most perks can deal up to 25% extra damage at level 25, I don't get why you would cap it at level 10? I think similarly for attack speed and movement speed. We shouldn't make any perk overpowered, but we should also reward the player. Extra knockback sounds cool though, and would support my idea of making the perk a true "glass cannon" that needs to strike hard, and dodge hits whenever he can.

>His starting loadout sounds fine, but the katana is supposed to be a T2 weapon... I guess one can always lower its damage slightly. Otherwise, it's not as if it was a truly frightening weapon. That seems alright to me. I do however believe that "shurikens" should replace the masking grenades. The shurikens could have a higher "ammo pool", let's say something like maybe 15-20 of them. They would be used to stumble zeds and could be thrown in rapid succession to make them fall on the ground. While this wouldn't work against scrakes of fleshpounds, it would buy you some time to either flee... or strike very hard !

>Level 5 skills sounds good, even for the "glass cannon" perk I picture in my head. Being able to slowly regen your HP doesn't mean a fleshpound cannot hurt you BADLY. I said earlier that I didn't want him to have anything increasing his survivability, but I guess that's actually fair. And still differentiate him from the Zerk, who can tank like a mad man.

>Level 10 skills are also good and again : while I thought of the perk as one that strikes rarely, but with great power (in opposition to Zerk's constant flurry of hits), I don't think it would hurt to actually increase his "RoF" based on your skills. I think that perk should be the ultimate "high-risk, high-reward" perk of the game, and this definitely shows it. If you get aggressive and/or put yourself in danger, you can strike faster. I do however despise the fact that both sides are very similar and bring almost identical bonuses. Maybe amping your damage or speed could be better?

>Well, as I told you, I'm not very fond of the masking grenades idea per say, but I guess it could be a tool you buy at the trader, similar to the C4? It's a shame how little we have to spice up the battlefield actually. But then, having skills that buff only ONE weapon sounds bad... Including if they are your grenades. It's just too situational you know? I do believe however that we should keep the idea of smoke grenades, but instead make them highlight zeds caught in it while it makes you "invisible" as long as you stay in it. That or we keep your idea of actually turning zeds against each other (so it makes it different from the healing/poisoning gas of the medic)

>Level 20 skills are, on the flip-side, a great way to amplify my "critical strike" idea ! It would push you into actually going for these peculiar hit spots and reward you for doing so. It's also a good idea to take a similar, crippling path to the zerk (who can stumble, stun and EMP) albeit working differently for the Martial Artist. I dig that!

>Level 25 : I believe one of the two skills should actually massively increase your damage output. Maybe both actually. That way, the little time you got could be used to smash a face's head !

All in all, I realize we have a very different idea of what the perk should be (and that's totally fine!). I don't think it's a bad idea per say to make the perk a more supportive one rather than one that can take down very important target, however... I do believe that his main targets are more akin to natural enemies (sirens, husks and bloats are all mighty dangerous at very close ranges). As such, I don't really know how it could get the job done? Not to mention that the zerk got both sonic and poison damage resistance... Making him actually better at dispatching the zeds the MA's should be killing ! I also find it very weird that you put so little emphasis on its damage. He really seems like a weak perk... Which is kinda counterproductive, as having to get close to be effective means that you put yourself in danger. A good reward for doing so would be bringing plenty of pain.

Anyway, since you didn't mention anything close to such mechanics, here's my two cents on what could give some flair to the perk.

-Bleeding damage : I guess it would be a bit too similar to other DoT effects of the game (namely the poison of the Medic, and the fire of the Firebug). But on the other hand, it could also have an extra, different effect. Rather than the "slowing down" of the poison or the "panic" of the fire, maybe they could get weaker and take more damage from other attacks? If I'm not mistaken, that's the purpose behind the hemogoblin ! It would add a little specialty to the perk

-Critical Strikes : I should have put a jar where I put a coin whenever I mentioned that idea above ! But anyway, every zed got a weak spot (usually the head, but it can be the gas tank for the Husk or the core for the Edars). It's already a great idea to strike that area for extra damage and quickly dispatching a threat. BUT, I got two ideas related to that.

First, one could imagine the perk doing EVEN MORE DAMAGE by striking those weakpoints. The main reasoning being that he needs to get at very close range to do so (the perk having NO long-ranged weapon besides the shurikens). And while it would be overkill against most trash zeds, that would actually reward the MA for tackling either the so-called natural enemies (husks, sirens...) or zeds that can badly hurt such a glass-cannon (scrakes, fleshpounds). Again, the polar opposite of the zerk, who usually tries to weaken or debuff them (and considering his "bleeding" effect weakening zeds... That would make the second strike even more hurtful)

-Combo system : To put even more emphasis on the very agressive nature of the perk compared to the zerk's mostly defensive and tanky stance, instead of getting more damage by parrying...He would get more damage by chaining multiple hits ! Basically, we could imagine than the first hit deals normal damage, the second does something like +25% or +33% and the last deals a "critical strike" which could do something like a big ass 66%/75% damage ! Then the combo resets.

As to avoid making this waaaay too overpowered, one could say that you have to hit the SAME ZED for the combo system to apply. If you hit "zed X" two times, then hit "zed Y", the combo gets reset to 1.

This would in-turn, make your level 10 skills even more valuable. As you increase your RoF, you actually have more chance to land that third, highly-damaging strike. Making short work out of anything... If you can actually dodge what's coming obviously!

In addition to that, the combo system forces you to focus on one target at a time, that you have to prioritize well. Again a difference compared to the Zerk, who can often slay multiple zeds in a single swing. Here, the Martial Artist is NOT a trash cleaner, because even though he got the damage to do it : if he gets swarmed, he won't be able to use the combo system effectively and will quickly die. Focusing on high-priority targets would be the best way to make the most out of him. Kinda similar to the difference between the sharpshooter and gunslinger... But pushed to even harder extremes !

And to answer the two other ideas (which have been explored quite a few times in the past) :

-A scientist perk has one problem to me : he has no real concept behind it. People asking for such a perk are pretty much asking for a very high-tech perk. Problem is : every perk got some sort of futuristic weaponry, so that doesn't really make a "role" by itself. A perk should have a purpose, and it isn't usually defined by its weapons, but truly by its skills. Just look at the medic or firebug : they got a bit of everything (assault rifles, shotguns, pistols...) but a medic isn't a commando, and a firebug isn't a gunslinger. So to me, the idea of a scientist perk is cool, yeah. But we got to come up with something for him to do. I guess taking the survivalist's weapons as an example, we could make him a highly supportive class, maybe even mixed with a "trapper" of some sort (since we don't really have perks that can set up traps... Besides the demo maybe?). Yeah, maybe he could freeze zeds to buy some time for the rest of his team. Maybe he could EMP them. Put mines. Power-up his team similarly to the Rioter for example! But then... Would he truly be different than a medic? That's the problem. We have to find a way to make him a different kind of support (then again, maybe a few weapons besides the ones from the survivalist could be added to his arsenal... I would see the Mine Reconstructor in his hands rather than the medic tbh)

-A Heavy Gunner perk is however one that I really don't see working out well, mostly because we already struggle to differentiate the commando and the SWAT in gameplay (even though their roles aren't that similar actually). Would yet another "bullet-hose" perk truly be worth it? What skills would he use? Besides choosing between a slower firing, harder-hitting road or a full-on spray-n-pray option... I don't see anything too exciting. Finally, his arsenal : what should we give him? Even admitting that we give him the Stoner and Minigun that the Commando uses, that's merely T4 and T5... And I don't really imagine what kind of peashooter we would get as a T1. We waited so long to get LMGs precisely for that reason : they are awful to balance. With such large mags and RoF, you can't really make a weapon that's too powerful. But if it takes half a mag to kill a medium zed, then where's the fun? Sadly, I think that perk is better off dead.
 
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Really happy to see some modern takes on either new perks or revisions of the old ones ! It's always a pleasure to ponder about them.

I personally always envisioned the Martial Artist as the polar opposite of the Zerk (just like the gunslinger and sharpshooter... or the commando and SWAT). In that case, the zerk would be a perk that uses his skills to tank and soak up damage, as well as draw the zeds' attention to him. With the addition ot stumbling, stunning or EMP-ing zeds for that very purpose. Unlike what most people seems to think, it ISN'T a killer perk. It's more akin to a supportive one. Meanwhile, the Martial Artist could use precise and heavy strikes that deals critical damages, but at the cost of being very fragile. One could see him as being the fastest perk of the bunch, but also one with little-to-nothing to increase his resistance or healing, meaning you have to strike fast and hard then back-up. Kinda similar to the role of the sharpshooter...But at dangerously close ranges.

This being said, let's explore your ideas !

>A melee-focused perk shouldn't have to kill sirens to boost its XP. It's like the antithesis of such a class. One could say that it rewards skill, as you'd have to wait for her to scream to move in safely. But still... That's too much hassle for what it is. I guess rewarding him per "critical strikes" (what I mentioned earlier) or maybe gorefasts would make more sense (swordfighting! yay!)

>Judging how most perks can deal up to 25% extra damage at level 25, I don't get why you would cap it at level 10? I think similarly for attack speed and movement speed. We shouldn't make any perk overpowered, but we should also reward the player. Extra knockback sounds cool though, and would support my idea of making the perk a true "glass cannon" that needs to strike hard, and dodge hits whenever he can.

>His starting loadout sounds fine, but the katana is supposed to be a T2 weapon... I guess one can always lower its damage slightly. Otherwise, it's not as if it was a truly frightening weapon. That seems alright to me. I do however believe that "shurikens" should replace the masking grenades. The shurikens could have a higher "ammo pool", let's say something like maybe 15-20 of them. They would be used to stumble zeds and could be thrown in rapid succession to make them fall on the ground. While this wouldn't work against scrakes of fleshpounds, it would buy you some time to either flee... or strike very hard !

>Level 5 skills sounds good, even for the "glass cannon" perk I picture in my head. Being able to slowly regen your HP doesn't mean a fleshpound cannot hurt you BADLY. I said earlier that I didn't want him to have anything increasing his survivability, but I guess that's actually fair. And still differentiate him from the Zerk, who can tank like a mad man.

>Level 10 skills are also good and again : while I thought of the perk as one that strikes rarely, but with great power (in opposition to Zerk's constant flurry of hits), I don't think it would hurt to actually increase his "RoF" based on your skills. I think that perk should be the ultimate "high-risk, high-reward" perk of the game, and this definitely shows it. If you get aggressive and/or put yourself in danger, you can strike faster. I do however despise the fact that both sides are very similar and bring almost identical bonuses. Maybe amping your damage or speed could be better?

>Well, as I told you, I'm not very fond of the masking grenades idea per say, but I guess it could be a tool you buy at the trader, similar to the C4? It's a shame how little we have to spice up the battlefield actually. But then, having skills that buff only ONE weapon sounds bad... Including if they are your grenades. It's just too situational you know? I do believe however that we should keep the idea of smoke grenades, but instead make them highlight zeds caught in it while it makes you "invisible" as long as you stay in it. That or we keep your idea of actually turning zeds against each other (so it makes it different from the healing/poisoning gas of the medic)

>Level 20 skills are, on the flip-side, a great way to amplify my "critical strike" idea ! It would push you into actually going for these peculiar hit spots and reward you for doing so. It's also a good idea to take a similar, crippling path to the zerk (who can stumble, stun and EMP) albeit working differently for the Martial Artist. I dig that!

>Level 25 : I believe one of the two skills should actually massively increase your damage output. Maybe both actually. That way, the little time you got could be used to smash a face's head !

All in all, I realize we have a very different idea of what the perk should be (and that's totally fine!). I don't think it's a bad idea per say to make the perk a more supportive one rather than one that can take down very important target, however... I do believe that his main targets are more akin to natural enemies (sirens, husks and bloats are all mighty dangerous at very close ranges). As such, I don't really know how it could get the job done? Not to mention that the zerk got both sonic and poison damage resistance... Making him actually better at dispatching the zeds the MA's should be killing ! I also find it very weird that you put so little emphasis on its damage. He really seems like a weak perk... Which is kinda counterproductive, as having to get close to be effective means that you put yourself in danger. A good reward for doing so would be bringing plenty of pain.

Anyway, since you didn't mention anything close to such mechanics, here's my two cents on what could give some flair to the perk.

-Bleeding damage : I guess it would be a bit too similar to other DoT effects of the game (namely the poison of the Medic, and the fire of the Firebug). But on the other hand, it could also have an extra, different effect. Rather than the "slowing down" of the poison or the "panic" of the fire, maybe they could get weaker and take more damage from other attacks? If I'm not mistaken, that's the purpose behind the hemogoblin ! It would add a little specialty to the perk

-Critical Strikes : I should have put a jar where I put a coin whenever I mentioned that idea above ! But anyway, every zed got a weak spot (usually the head, but it can be the gas tank for the Husk or the core for the Edars). It's already a great idea to strike that area for extra damage and quickly dispatching a threat. BUT, I got two ideas related to that.

First, one could imagine the perk doing EVEN MORE DAMAGE by striking those weakpoints. The main reasoning being that he needs to get at very close range to do so (the perk having NO long-ranged weapon besides the shurikens). And while it would be overkill against most trash zeds, that would actually reward the MA for tackling either the so-called natural enemies (husks, sirens...) or zeds that can badly hurt such a glass-cannon (scrakes, fleshpounds). Again, the polar opposite of the zerk, who usually tries to weaken or debuff them (and considering his "bleeding" effect weakening zeds... That would make the second strike even more hurtful)

-Combo system : To put even more emphasis on the very agressive nature of the perk compared to the zerk's mostly defensive and tanky stance, instead of getting more damage by parrying...He would get more damage by chaining multiple hits ! Basically, we could imagine than the first hit deals normal damage, the second does something like +25% or +33% and the last deals a "critical strike" which could do something like a big ass 66%/75% damage ! Then the combo resets.

As to avoid making this waaaay too overpowered, one could say that you have to hit the SAME ZED for the combo system to apply. If you hit "zed X" two times, then hit "zed Y", the combo gets reset to 1.

This would in-turn, make your level 10 skills even more valuable. As you increase your RoF, you actually have more chance to land that third, highly-damaging strike. Making short work out of anything... If you can actually dodge what's coming obviously!

In addition to that, the combo system forces you to focus on one target at a time, that you have to prioritize well. Again a difference compared to the Zerk, who can often slay multiple zeds in a single swing. Here, the Martial Artist is NOT a trash cleaner, because even though he got the damage to do it : if he gets swarmed, he won't be able to use the combo system effectively and will quickly die. Focusing on high-priority targets would be the best way to make the most out of him. Kinda similar to the difference between the sharpshooter and gunslinger... But pushed to even harder extremes !

And to answer the two other ideas (which have been explored quite a few times in the past) :

-A scientist perk has one problem to me : he has no real concept behind it. People asking for such a perk are pretty much asking for a very high-tech perk. Problem is : every perk got some sort of futuristic weaponry, so that doesn't really make a "role" by itself. A perk should have a purpose, and it isn't usually defined by its weapons, but truly by its skills. Just look at the medic or firebug : they got a bit of everything (assault rifles, shotguns, pistols...) but a medic isn't a commando, and a firebug isn't a gunslinger. So to me, the idea of a scientist perk is cool, yeah. But we got to come up with something for him to do. I guess taking the survivalist's weapons as an example, we could make him a highly supportive class, maybe even mixed with a "trapper" of some sort (since we don't really have perks that can set up traps... Besides the demo maybe?). Yeah, maybe he could freeze zeds to buy some time for the rest of his team. Maybe he could EMP them. Put mines. Power-up his team similarly to the Rioter for example! But then... Would he truly be different than a medic? That's the problem. We have to find a way to make him a different kind of support (then again, maybe a few weapons besides the ones from the survivalist could be added to his arsenal... I would see the Mine Reconstructor in his hands rather than the medic tbh)

-A Heavy Gunner perk is however one that I really don't see working out well, mostly because we already struggle to differentiate the commando and the SWAT in gameplay (even though their roles aren't that similar actually). Would yet another "bullet-hose" perk truly be worth it? What skills would he use? Besides choosing between a slower firing, harder-hitting road or a full-on spray-n-pray option... I don't see anything too exciting. Finally, his arsenal : what should we give him? Even admitting that we give him the Stoner and Minigun that the Commando uses, that's merely T4 and T5... And I don't really imagine what kind of peashooter we would get as a T1. We waited so long to get LMGs precisely for that reason : they are awful to balance. With such large mags and RoF, you can't really make a weapon that's too powerful. But if it takes half a mag to kill a medium zed, then where's the fun? Sadly, I think that perk is better off dead.
With the Martial artist and Heavy gunner perk. I’m just trying to complete both ends of the spectrum. In terms of speed and strength

Regarding the scientist, I was thinking of a Jekyll and Hyde sort of character. They’re weak, but uses prototype healing. At 1% health they can still heal back to full health with 1 jab. If you heal more than 75% of your health back, you go into rage mode. Making you faster and stronger for a limited time

Instead of grenades you have a portal device, killing zeds and teleporting the team to a random place as a means of escape

Maybe have a vacuum weapon based on the eviscerator. Suck up the zeds and spit out their bones. Make zeds behind you stumble, if they get hit by the bones

Have springboard traps, send any zed flying. Maybe limit the hydraulics on the board to 3 uses

You say that other perks already use futuristic weapons, but that’s my point with the scientist...
TW wants cross weapon perks!

Why do we have futuristic weapons? Maybe the scientist helped to create them!

Idk what all the skills would be. I guess something similar to survivalist

A lot of survivalists I see online, play the role of medic. Which is something I don’t like
 
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With the Martial artist and Heavy gunner perk. I’m just trying to complete both ends of the spectrum. In terms of speed and strength

Regarding the scientist, I was thinking of a Jekyll and Hyde sort of character. They’re weak, but uses prototype healing. At 1% health they can still heal back to full health with 1 jab. If you heal more than 75% of your health back, you go into rage mode. Making you faster and stronger for a limited time

Instead of grenades you have a portal device, killing zeds and teleporting the team to a random place as a means of escape

Maybe have a vacuum weapon based on the eviscerator. Suck up the zeds and spit out their bones. Make zeds behind you stumble, if they get hit by the bones

Have springboard traps, send any zed flying. Maybe limit the hydraulics on the board to 3 uses

You say that other perks already use futuristic weapons, but that’s my point with the scientist...
TW wants cross weapon perks!

Why do we have futuristic weapons? Maybe the scientist helped to create them!

Idk what all the skills would be. I guess something similar to survivalist

A lot of survivalists I see online, play the role of medic. Which is something I don’t like
That's weird to think of survivalists playing as medics... I really can't see it working since he only got ONE skill related to healing. Sure, I guess he deals more damage with medic weapons, but that's pretty much it. You can be an "aggressive" medic, but while it can be fun : it isn't very meta. On harder difficulties, playing a medic with every buff is way more important.

I have a hard time picturing that scientist, ain't gonna lie. I guess it could become an SFX nightmare if we push it too far. Similarly, I'm afraid of the limits of the Killing Floor engine (well, it's Unreal, so I guess it's quite adaptable). I'm afraid of how ridiculous it could look, basically. I believe you could have something more simple like I don't know... Magnetic or EMP mines for example? The return of the ZED Device from KF1. And as I put it : he could get his weapons from a few other perks : I mentioned the Mine Reconstructor or the Survivalist's weapons, but we could also get the Hemogoblin or the Teslauncher... Weapons that would fit a scientist perk waaay more than the arsenals they are actually part of (namely medic and zerk).

I'll try to ponder a bit on the perk and maybe make a peculiar topic just like Breadsticks and Wytchphyre did. I really think something could be done with such an idea... and I'd rather have the Martial Artist or Scientist than the Survivalist anyway.

But yeah, sorry dude... I really struggle to see the Machine/Heavy Gunner working. If someone manage to make a detailed idea of it, I would gladly review and discuss it ! But for now on, I really don't see how it could work functionally... Or even how you would come up with four (five?) weapons as well as passives and ten skills.
 
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That's weird to think of survivalists playing as medics... I really can't see it working since he only got ONE skill related to healing. Sure, I guess he deals more damage with medic weapons, but that's pretty much it. You can be an "aggressive" medic, but while it can be fun : it isn't very meta. On harder difficulties, playing a medic with every buff is way more important.

I have a hard time picturing that scientist, ain't gonna lie. I guess it could become an SFX nightmare if we push it too far. Similarly, I'm afraid of the limits of the Killing Floor engine (well, it's Unreal, so I guess it's quite adaptable). I'm afraid of how ridiculous it could look, basically. I believe you could have something more simple like I don't know... Magnetic or EMP mines for example? The return of the ZED Device from KF1. And as I put it : he could get his weapons from a few other perks : I mentioned the Mine Reconstructor or the Survivalist's weapons, but we could also get the Hemogoblin or the Teslauncher... Weapons that would fit a scientist perk waaay more than the arsenals they are actually part of (namely medic and zerk).

I'll try to ponder a bit on the perk and maybe make a peculiar topic just like Breadsticks and Wytchphyre did. I really think something could be done with such an idea... and I'd rather have the Martial Artist or Scientist than the Survivalist anyway.

But yeah, sorry dude... I really struggle to see the Machine/Heavy Gunner working. If someone manage to make a detailed idea of it, I would gladly review and discuss it ! But for now on, I really don't see how it could work functionally... Or even how you would come up with four (five?) weapons as well as passives and ten skills.
I’m just telling you what I see. I mainly play on console, I see survivalists use medic darts and grenades all the time. It’s so annoying, Medic is my go to perk, and they make me redundant

About the Unreal engine, I wish TW made a port of KF2 on Unreal engine 4. The next gen consoles are around the corner now!
Call it KF2 remake, it’s free to play, cross platform, with a battle pass, and a fair purchasing system!
They could add HDR, and all the other bells and whistles they have in modern games, plus I reckon it would be less of a pain to fix bugs.
They could make some serious money from this. The money they make could go towards making KF3 on Unreal 5, win win for everyone!

To be honest, I’m not that bothered with the Heavy gunner, it’s low on my list of improvements. I just thought it was strange because other games have a LMG class, but not this game. But I’m okay with it.
 
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I’m just telling you what I see. I mainly play on console, I see survivalists use medic darts and grenades all the time. It’s so annoying, Medic is my go to perk, and they make me redundant

About the Unreal engine, I wish TW made a port of KF2 on Unreal engine 4. The next gen consoles are around the corner now!
Call it KF2 remake, it’s free to play, cross platform, with a battle pass, and a fair purchasing system!
They could add HDR, and all the other bells and whistles they have in modern games, plus I reckon it would be less of a pain to fix bugs.
They could make some serious money from this. The money they make could go towards making KF3 on Unreal 5, win win for everyone!

To be honest, I’m not that bothered with the Heavy gunner, it’s low on my list of improvements. I just thought it was strange because other games have a LMG class, but not this game. But I’m okay with it.
Well, I won't go back on this : I've said so numerous times on multiple topics. The survivalist is a mess currently. Instead of allowing hybrid perks or peculiar combos, you're just a worse version of every perks... And the skills are mostly to play for that. They are often catering to a single playstyle. Even worse : you can't even do that playstyle well because the skills don't even go that well together. I've always felt that perk was a poor excuse for a tenth class... And never quite understood why the Martial Artist got scrapped either. Oh well.

I tend not to think too much about the power of an engine as long as it gets the job done. I don't need my game to have tons of small details or pretty water effects. I just need it to run the game smoothly and clearly. I often reuse that example, but look at Mortal Kombat 11... It's arguably the prettiest fighting game ever and yet it was made on outdated technology! Better than that : a ton of 16-bit games are still magnificent, despite running on a potato of an engine. I don't know if bringing the game to a newer engine would truly offer anything at that point... Anything that MATTERS that is. Even if it wouldn't hurt naturally.

As for the other ideas, well... I have multiple gripes about it, as to why it wouldn't work.

1)Killing Floor 2 is now five years old. That's not something you'd do on a game far past its prime. Maybe such ideas could work at the release of KF3, but unless they make a big re-release of the game at some point, with a huge rebalance... It probably won't work. Because I don't see people coming back to it.

2)Free-to-plays are... Not that popular anymore. I'm not saying they no longer exist, but compared to a few years ago when you got three newcomers every month, it is fairly rare to see a brand new, ambitious offering. And for good reasons : tons of services (Steam, GoG, Epic Games Store) offer FREE games. It is similar on Xbox and Playstation once per month. Not to mention the numerous big sales offered by the same services, as well as a few others (Humble Bundle,...) All in all : even a gamer short on money can easily acquire a very decent library of games.

2.5) Tripwire seems uninterested to turn the game free-to-play anyway...Despite having microtransactions since nearly the beginning of its lifetime. Considering we also have DLCs now, I don't see why they would turn the game F2P anytime soon. It's already tough to sell a weapon for ten bucks, so in a free-to-play...? No chance.

3) I think battle passes are already losing a lot of their appeal, because you can only get so many skins before it gets boring you see? Most of the rewards are underwhelming in such cases. Plus, it's kinda frustrating to have timely events... because you have to be there or be square. Missing out a great reward because you didn't have the time is annoying. But now, of course, we could imagine Tripwire giving out better things than mere skins : cosmetic items, emotes... and why not give out weapons or even new characters as the last rewards of the pass? That way, you'd bring in more players, more often, and it would feel less arbitrary than putting such content behind a paywall. With the added option of STILL allowing people to pay if they want everything straight up. Or if they missed the last, better rewards (the weapons and characters, who take longer to make)

Hell, that could actually truly improve the V-dosh system. As most rewards are very bad. Earning V-dosh in order to progress through the pass seems like a better deal.

4)Finally, the last and most important issue is that... Tripwire doesn't seem that interested in Killing Floor 2 anymore. And who can blame them? It's perfectly understandable for a company to want to move to other, newer things. I guess they have their hands busy with Maneater. And while they mentioned having "new projects" for the Killing Floor franchise, I would expect either a sequel or spin-off in the making rather than new work on Killing Floor 2. They didn't hire Saber Interactive for nothing you know?

Finally, the Heavy Gunner class of Killing Floor is... the Commando. It doesn't feel that out of place considering his role and weaponry. An LMG is basically an AR on steroids in that game. Again, I just don't see how you would build a whole perk around that concept. And what it would do than the commando doesn't... Since the perk can already have a 75 bullets AK12 if he wants to ! So yeah, having a commando but with larger mags wouldn't be very interesting.
 
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Well, I won't go back on this : I've said so numerous times on multiple topics. The survivalist is a mess currently. Instead of allowing hybrid perks or peculiar combos, you're just a worse version of every perks... And the skills are mostly to play for that. They are often catering to a single playstyle. Even worse : you can't even do that playstyle well because the skills don't even go that well together. I've always felt that perk was a poor excuse for a tenth class... And never quite understood why the Martial Artist got scrapped either. Oh well.

I tend not to think too much about the power of an engine as long as it gets the job done. I don't need my game to have tons of small details or pretty water effects. I just need it to run the game smoothly and clearly. I often reuse that example, but look at Mortal Kombat 11... It's arguably the prettiest fighting game ever and yet it was made on outdated technology! Better than that : a ton of 16-bit games are still magnificent, despite running on a potato of an engine. I don't know if bringing the game to a newer engine would truly offer anything at that point... Anything that MATTERS that is. Even if it wouldn't hurt naturally.

As for the other ideas, well... I have multiple gripes about it, as to why it wouldn't work.

1)Killing Floor 2 is now five years old. That's not something you'd do on a game far past its prime. Maybe such ideas could work at the release of KF3, but unless they make a big re-release of the game at some point, with a huge rebalance... It probably won't work. Because I don't see people coming back to it.

2)Free-to-plays are... Not that popular anymore. I'm not saying they no longer exist, but compared to a few years ago when you got three newcomers every month, it is fairly rare to see a brand new, ambitious offering. And for good reasons : tons of services (Steam, GoG, Epic Games Store) offer FREE games. It is similar on Xbox and Playstation once per month. Not to mention the numerous big sales offered by the same services, as well as a few others (Humble Bundle,...) All in all : even a gamer short on money can easily acquire a very decent library of games.

2.5) Tripwire seems uninterested to turn the game free-to-play anyway...Despite having microtransactions since nearly the beginning of its lifetime. Considering we also have DLCs now, I don't see why they would turn the game F2P anytime soon. It's already tough to sell a weapon for ten bucks, so in a free-to-play...? No chance.

3) I think battle passes are already losing a lot of their appeal, because you can only get so many skins before it gets boring you see? Most of the rewards are underwhelming in such cases. Plus, it's kinda frustrating to have timely events... because you have to be there or be square. Missing out a great reward because you didn't have the time is annoying. But now, of course, we could imagine Tripwire giving out better things than mere skins : cosmetic items, emotes... and why not give out weapons or even new characters as the last rewards of the pass? That way, you'd bring in more players, more often, and it would feel less arbitrary than putting such content behind a paywall. With the added option of STILL allowing people to pay if they want everything straight up. Or if they missed the last, better rewards (the weapons and characters, who take longer to make)

Hell, that could actually truly improve the V-dosh system. As most rewards are very bad. Earning V-dosh in order to progress through the pass seems like a better deal.

4)Finally, the last and most important issue is that... Tripwire doesn't seem that interested in Killing Floor 2 anymore. And who can blame them? It's perfectly understandable for a company to want to move to other, newer things. I guess they have their hands busy with Maneater. And while they mentioned having "new projects" for the Killing Floor franchise, I would expect either a sequel or spin-off in the making rather than new work on Killing Floor 2. They didn't hire Saber Interactive for nothing you know?

Finally, the Heavy Gunner class of Killing Floor is... the Commando. It doesn't feel that out of place considering his role and weaponry. An LMG is basically an AR on steroids in that game. Again, I just don't see how you would build a whole perk around that concept. And what it would do than the commando doesn't... Since the perk can already have a 75 bullets AK12 if he wants to ! So yeah, having a commando but with larger mags wouldn't be very interesting.
First of all, you type damn quick,
I swear I was only gone for 10 mins!

But seriously, I agree with what you say. Except...

-On console the game doesn’t run smoothly, but I’m sure it will be fine on next gen hardware

-I don’t see a problem with having a remake. Last of us had a remake, so did gta 5, and will have another remake on next gen

-I don’t think free to play games are unpopular, look at Warzone. I heard they made 5 times the money of what they thought they were gonna make
 
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First of all, you type damn quick,
I swear I was only gone for 10 mins!

But seriously, I agree with what you say. Except...

-On console the game doesn’t run smoothly, but I’m sure it will be fine on next gen hardware

-I don’t see a problem with having a remake. Last of us had a remake, so did gta 5, and will have another remake on next gen

-I don’t think free to play games are unpopular, look at Warzone. I heard they made 5 times the money of what they thought they were gonna make
That's what being a future journalist and aspiring writer brings you :p I'm even worse when I speak French !

-Well, if I'm not mistaken, Killing Floor 2 is the first game that Tripwire brought to consoles (as they've been a mostly PC-focused company prior to that). Maybe that explains why? I haven't tried Maneater so I don't know if it runs any better... But that might explain it. I personally don't know if remaking the game for consoles would be worth it from a business point-of-view (and even less from a customer point-of-view, since I don't play KF on console!), but I can at least see why it would be annoying.

-That's... A whole other debate really. One that I don't really feel comfortable having right now. Let's just sum it up by saying that I'm all for remakes of FLAWED games. If a game got poor sales, didn't run that well, got released at the wrong time, had an inexperienced team behind it and so on... I'm all for it. If a concept is too good to pass up, I'm definitely up for a remake that patch the wounds. However, remaking an already-great game is just utter nonsense to me. And yes, that includes the example you mentioned.

Because all in all... A good game stays a good game. Some ages better than others, but a classic will forever be remembered as a classic. There's a reason why people still play Street Fighter 3, Age of Empires 2 or the first Sonic after so many years ! They are just as good as they once were. Of course, they also got remasters along the way... But one might wonder if it was truly necessary. In my opinion, it wasn't. Except for some balancing and the ability to play it on modern configurations. But does it warrant paying a game full-price yet again? I would say no. I know tons of fans who want a remaster of the Mass Effect Trilogy, but I personally don't... The original trilogy still holds up pretty well, and I really don't want to buy it yet another time just because they fixed the lengthy loading times of the first game ! That's just not enough... even though it's my favorite game serie.

Now, reboots are a totally different kind of affair ! They can pretty much allow a serie to go back to its roots. They can allow them to start anew on a better, modern foot. They can help bring back a forgotten gem and more often than not : improve upon it. The most recent (and obvious) example would be the latest Call of Duty Modern Warfare, arguably the best game the serie has seen in YEARS. And since I mentioned Age of Empires II above : the HD reboot brought a huge balance patch, as well as new content ! Yet, I thought the game lost a bit of its old-timey charm with the Definitive Edition... It wasn't needed.

I guess one cannot make a general rule of thumb about them. It really depends on what they bring and what they do. But I would argue that remaking a game that is less than ten years old is not worth it... Except if it was very bad with a cool concept.

-As for Free-to-plays, god... I'm gonna be talkative too ! I want to say two things about that. First, Warzone is a "happy exception" IMO, because it's linked to Call of Duty... and because it's part of the still quite popular genre of "Battle Royale". Remember all the MOBAs we got at the time League of Legends became popular? That's because it was a trend ! That's the same thing for Apex Legends.

And yet, the exact opposite can also happen... Look at Overwatch. The game single-handedly steam-rolled on every game that looked even REMOTELY like it (or not at all... Anybody remember Gigantic? Lawbreakers? Battleborn? ). So there's no real rule as to what work or not.

But the latter also proves that going free-to-play doesn't always save a game. Battleborn and Lawbreakers still died shortly after going free-to-play. Same goes for "Defiance" (which had the benefit of being tied to a TV show !).

It's obviously no scoop, but marketing also plays an enormous part in the success of a game. Do you believe that Fortnite would have got the fan-gathering he currently has if it wasn't for streamers? And even then, would the streamers be interested if they kept the basic gameplay premise and not the world-famous Battle Royale? It's all about marketing, following what's currently hot... and some luck.

All I'm saying is that I doubt that Killing Floor has anything to truly make it work as a F2P at the moment. It's too old and the gameplay is not really "hype". And please, don't let them make yet another battle royale...
 
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Making the Martial Artist just a slightly different Berserker perk, using the same weapons and all, feels like a waste imo.

If I were to design the Martial Artist, I'd make it a hybrid of melee and midrange weaponry, and give it more exotic weapons. Katana can be crossperked with Berserker, sure, but think of weapons like: Shuriken, Kusarigama, Naginata, Blade-wave Sword, Boomerangs or Throwing Discs, Blowdarts, (Explosive?) Bolas, Longbow (different from the Compound Bow) and stuff like that.

Make it a fast and hardhitting perk, but not particularly tanky. Stuff like crouching to reduce aggro, and maybe bonus damage when hitting enemies from behind? If the Berserker is the Warrior/Brute archetype, make the Martial Artist the Ninja/Rogue archetype. That way it'd prolly feel like a Berserker and Sharpshooter hybrid, with its own flair.

Scientist can also work. I'd make it an offensive support (Freezing, Slowing, Stunning, EMPing, increases damage taken of enemies you attack etc) with a sidedish of traps and light healing. We only have one real support-perk (Medic), so another one would be nice. And considering Medic is the defensive support, an offensive one would be cool.

Heavy Gunner though... no. While the Commando has the only LMG at the moment, the SWAT is basicly the Heavy Gunner anyway with its bullethoses and high stumblepower. The concept of the SWAT is the most balanced way a "Heavy Gunner" could be done, really. Not to mention, more interesting, as I don't see what the Gunner could bring aside from big-magazined guns?
 
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Making the Martial Artist just a slightly different Berserker perk, using the same weapons and all, feels like a waste imo.

If I were to design the Martial Artist, I'd make it a hybrid of melee and midrange weaponry, and give it more exotic weapons. Katana can be crossperked with Berserker, sure, but think of weapons like: Shuriken, Kusarigama, Naginata, Blade-wave Sword, Boomerangs or Throwing Discs, Blowdarts, (Explosive?) Bolas, Longbow (different from the Compound Bow) and stuff like that.

Make it a fast and hardhitting perk, but not particularly tanky. Stuff like crouching to reduce aggro, and maybe bonus damage when hitting enemies from behind? If the Berserker is the Warrior/Brute archetype, make the Martial Artist the Ninja/Rogue archetype. That way it'd prolly feel like a Berserker and Sharpshooter hybrid, with its own flair.

Scientist can also work. I'd make it an offensive support (Freezing, Slowing, Stunning, EMPing, increases damage taken of enemies you attack etc) with a sidedish of traps and light healing. We only have one real support-perk (Medic), so another one would be nice. And considering Medic is the defensive support, an offensive one would be cool.

Heavy Gunner though... no. While the Commando has the only LMG at the moment, the SWAT is basicly the Heavy Gunner anyway with its bullethoses and high stumblepower. The concept of the SWAT is the most balanced way a "Heavy Gunner" could be done, really. Not to mention, more interesting, as I don't see what the Gunner could bring aside from big-magazined guns?
Besides the fact that I wished for the perk to stay rooted in MELEE ONLY (something I think the zerk should have been too, save for the Eviscerator), I can see that we have the exact same state of mind for the Martial Artist, and I don't know how and why I didn't think of comparing them to the classic "warrior/rogue" classes.

I'm a bit more cautious about what you said for the Scientist and Medic... The latter I believe is already quite offensive regarding his weaponry and some of his skills (the non-buffing ones that is). In a way, as I put it a few times already, the Medic is more of a survivalist than the Survivalist itself... I also believe that while the Medic is the most supportive class, the zerk also is one in a way. He's meant to tank and soak up most damage, EMP/Stumble/Stun his opponents and divert the attention of zeds towards him. Unlike what most newcomers seems to think : he isn't about damage actually.

But yes, having another purely supportive perk would be great. It's just that the medic got all the buffs... I don't really see how the Scientist could support his team besides by debuffing zeds (something many perks can already do). So all we're left are traps, and peculiar weapons/gadgets (I said it above, but I believe he should really get the Z.E.D. MkII from the first game)

And we also agree on the Heavy Gunner...Although I would personally love one more LMG in the hands of the Commando. The opposite of the minigun : a slower firing, but harder hitting affair, possibly with a smaller mag as well.
 
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Besides the fact that I wished for the perk to stay rooted in MELEE ONLY (something I think the zerk should have been too, save for the Eviscerator), I can see that we have the exact same state of mind for the Martial Artist, and I don't know how and why I didn't think of comparing them to the classic "warrior/rogue" classes.

I'm a bit more cautious about what you said for the Scientist and Medic... The latter I believe is already quite offensive regarding his weaponry and some of his skills (the non-buffing ones that is). In a way, as I put it a few times already, the Medic is more of a survivalist than the Survivalist itself... I also believe that while the Medic is the most supportive class, the zerk also is one in a way. He's meant to tank and soak up most damage, EMP/Stumble/Stun his opponents and divert the attention of zeds towards him. Unlike what most newcomers seems to think : he isn't about damage actually.

But yes, having another purely supportive perk would be great. It's just that the medic got all the buffs... I don't really see how the Scientist could support his team besides by debuffing zeds (something many perks can already do). So all we're left are traps, and peculiar weapons/gadgets (I said it above, but I believe he should really get the Z.E.D. MkII from the first game)

And we also agree on the Heavy Gunner...Although I would personally love one more LMG in the hands of the Commando. The opposite of the minigun : a slower firing, but harder hitting affair, possibly with a smaller mag as well.
The Warrior/Rogue analogy is a pretty good analogy, yeah. The reason I'm more inclined to make the Martial Artist far more midranged than the Berserker is because of its frail glasscannon nature, fitting its more "elegant" nature, while the Berserker is more like, well, berserkery, running into danger a bit more mindlessly and hacking away. They'd basicly be brains vs brawns in the melee-esque department, if you will.

The reason I feel the Scientist could work so well as an offensive support with a side of healing, is because I tried playing Survivalist exactly like that a quite few times with the Freezethrower and Hemogoblin. It was a really fun and rewarding team-experience imo. So I truly believe it could work that way, hell, in my Scientist ideastorm, I even gave it XP-bonus from assists! And not doing anything besides debuffing ZEDs and traps... well, some perks arguably do less than that, honestly (like Firebug, which basicly just kills things).

Oh yeah, that kind of LMG would be swell. I'd love to wield the Bren gun, personally.
 
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The Warrior/Rogue analogy is a pretty good analogy, yeah. The reason I'm more inclined to make the Martial Artist far more midranged than the Berserker is because of its frail glasscannon nature, fitting its more "elegant" nature, while the Berserker is more like, well, berserkery, running into danger a bit more mindlessly and hacking away. They'd basicly be brains vs brawns in the melee-esque department, if you will.

The reason I feel the Scientist could work so well as an offensive support with a side of healing, is because I tried playing Survivalist exactly like that a quite few times with the Freezethrower and Hemogoblin. It was a really fun and rewarding team-experience imo. So I truly believe it could work that way, hell, in my Scientist ideastorm, I even gave it XP-bonus from assists! And not doing anything besides debuffing ZEDs and traps... well, some perks arguably do less than that, honestly (like Firebug, which basicly just kills things).

Oh yeah, that kind of LMG would be swell. I'd love to wield the Bren gun, personally.
And I definitely get it ! My reasoning behind the "melee-only" idea was to justify my other ideas regarding "critical strikes" and "combo system". It's basically a dual curse : not only are you fragile, but you NEED to come close to actually be efficient ! But if you do, you'll get rewarded with the capability of killing zeds just as fast as they can kill you... Your job being to be agile enough to avoid meeting your demise.

But I suppose it would be more balanced to keep it milder. Plus I guess some of the ranged weaponry you proposed (like the boomerang) could be tools rather than real weapons (maybe it could "stun" zeds, Megaman style?). So yeah, I'm not totally closed to such an idea, as long as we keep the perk a glass cannon. I also like the idea of "backstabbing" zeds for extra damage (getting PTSD from Team Fortress 2 in the meantime !), but I don't know how feasible that would be... I think I pretty much never kill zeds from behind, except when they're targetting teammates. And even then, if a zed is looking at your friend, there's probably another one wishing to turn you into a snack !

XP-bonus for assists sounds like a great idea indeed ! And totally in-tone with the perk. I guess your example does work, and actually... I did consider both the Hemogoblin and Freezethrower as weapons for the scientist perk (I don't really find them fitting of either the medic or survivalist perks). I would argue that the Firebug does help slightly as it can block a path for a little while with the help of his molotovs and ground fire... Plus he "helps" by causing zeds to panic (even though it's often a curse more than a blessing for sharpshooters). But yeah, I agree that his main role is to kill trash-to-medium zeds quickly.

And yep, I would totally love the Bren ! Considering how people love WW2 weaponry as well as quirky-looking guns, that seems like a perfect fit. And with his regular 30 bullets mags, it sounds like a perfect contender for that more "punchy" feeling. I also thought about the BAR but I guess it isn't an LMG in the traditional sense of the word... Plus, 20 bullets is quite a stretch. It shouldn't become a DMR ! The Commando is still mostly about DPS.
 
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Just for fun, I thought I would’ve a go creating some skills for berserker. Using some of the ideas mentioned

5 - Survival
-Giving 100%
Move 20% faster, sprint 25% faster, swap weapons 25% faster, reload 25% faster, and melee attack speed is 5% faster

-Dreadnaught
Skill stays the same

15 - Close combat
-Pari-pari sauce
Parrying reduces incoming damage 40%, and adds bonus damage. Critical damage at 65% for the first 3 seconds, followed by melee damage at 35% for 7 seconds

-Resistance
Skill is kept the same

20 - Power
-Stack ‘em up
Light attack with melee weapons have 10% more speed, and do 10% extra damage. Consecutive light melee hits with a perk weapon, increases damage and speed by 10%, and receives 1 heal point, to a max of 50%. Counter resets at max. Masking grenade replace emp

-Smash
the same skill, but you also regenerate 2 heal points every second
 
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Just for fun, I thought I would’ve a go creating some skills for berserker. Using some of the ideas mentioned

5 - Survival
-Giving 100%
Move 20% faster, sprint 25% faster, swap weapons 25% faster, reload 25% faster, and melee attack speed is 5% faster

-Dreadnaught
Skill stays the same

15 - Close combat
-Pari-pari sauce
Parrying reduces incoming damage 40%, and adds bonus damage. Critical damage at 65% for the first 3 seconds, followed by melee damage at 35% for 7 seconds

-Resistance
Skill is kept the same

20 - Power
-Stack ‘em up
Light attack with melee weapons have 10% more speed, and do 10% extra damage. Consecutive light melee hits with a perk weapon, increases damage and speed by 10%, and receives 1 heal point, to a max of 50%. Counter resets at max. Masking grenade replace emp

-Smash
the same skill, but you also regenerate 2 heal points every second
Eh... I do think the zerk is fine as it is really, and he surely doesn't need any more tankiness. Plus, considering he's getting more and more ranged weaponry, the argument of "he needs to get up-close and personal, putting himself in danger" doesn't even work that well anymore.

The perk should be tough to kill and able to divert the zeds' attention towards him. But he shouldn't be unkillable.
 
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Eh... I do think the zerk is fine as it is really, and he surely doesn't need any more tankiness. Plus, considering he's getting more and more ranged weaponry, the argument of "he needs to get up-close and personal, putting himself in danger" doesn't even work that well anymore.

The perk should be tough to kill and able to divert the zeds' attention towards him. But he shouldn't be unkillable.
Fair enough, I was seeing if I could make Martial artist a skill, rather than a perk
 
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Fair enough, I was seeing if I could make Martial artist a skill, rather than a perk
Quite honestly, I think I can speak for the majority of KF2 players by saying we'd rather have it as a proper perk ;-)

Yes, we could change the current skill trees of the zerk to go either ways (glass cannon with lots of speed and damage, or a tank that stays in the fight)... But it would pretty much mean to rework the entire perk. Plus, I believe it's actually better to have the current dilemma between survivability and raw damage.
 
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