PBBans supports Red Orchestra 2

[MaydaX]

Doesn't say a lot for punk buster does it.

The same applies to VAC. PB is usually faster at banning players these days.

PB itself is ok, in the past it issued mostly 2 minute kicks for most cheat detections. Today it issues more global guid bans (means the player is banned from every server that has PB enabled).

 

[REZ]

If a player is worrying about getting banned, then 9 chances out of 10, they are most likely using something that they know could trigger a ban.

That's not a fair statement, it's purely speculative on your part, and it doesnt make you look very good. I, for one, have legitimate concerns because of things I've read. I don't take it personally that you've made that statement seeing as how I've voiced concern (this community, the ones that actually play RO, know me well), but it doesnt help to ease my concerns either, knowing the angle you're coming from. What you've said is that people who are concerned about false positives are in fact, 9 out of 10 times, a cheater. Would you like to back away from that statement?

 

[Overholt]

Why dont they just vote kick the hacker or get in an admin, or is there a sole purpose of those I dont get?

 

[echutter]

just a heads up,

even purchasing cheats to "test them" if you happen to get caught the ban will remain in place, never test cheats, even being loaded into memory can get you into trouble..

Lol. Most people in the GiB community are PR players who have over 5 keys of battelfield, as the they have had problems with it.

It's not like we used our CD keys that we use to play with. I'm sure we'll be okay.

 

[origination]

Why dont they just vote kick the hacker or get in an admin, or is there a sole purpose of those I dont get?

Because theres no to confirm if a guy is hacking or not if you don't have some scanner to help ensure it. He could be using a detectable hack right under your noses and just play it off as if hes that good, not using all out aimbot or anything obvious. They do it all the time and get away with it.

 

[IndianScout]

Would you like to back away from that statement?

as our motto states Quality over Quantity we don't believe in witch hunts or listening to accusations without the evidence to back them up, we would rather err on the side of caution than ban an innocent player.

Indian..

 

[SuperTaz]

That's not a fair statement, it's purely speculative on your part, and it doesnt make you look very good. I, for one, have legitimate concerns because of things I've read. I don't take it personally that you've made that statement seeing as how I've voiced concern (this community, the ones that actually play RO, know me well), but it doesnt help to ease my concerns either, knowing the angle you're coming from. What you've said is that people who are concerned about false positives are in fact, 9 out of 10 times, a cheater. Would you like to back away from that statement?

1. I was not talking about false positives for that part. I was talking about legitimate bans for legitimate cheats. If this was taken the wrong way, I apologize. Sometimes, my wording is not the best.

2. For false positives, read this:

Like we said in previous posts, if someone gets banned, and it is a false violation, then we will lift the ban immediately.

As long as all anticheat sites and Even Balance lift the false positives, then everything is fixed and the player(s) is good to go. For someone to worry about a false positive ban, that will get lifted, is beyond me.

Like MaydaX said, no anti-cheat is perfect. They both have their issues, but, I choose PB because of the features that you can use as an admin to catch cheaters. (i.e. PB Screen Shots, MD5 scans, CVAR scans, First Person Demos, etc.) VAC does not use these features to globally ban cheats.

 

[REZ]

Well, thank you for clarifying. I can read that post over and over again and I still come to the same conclusion, so.. yeah, the wording is a bit off if that's not where you were coming from.

In regards to my implication of a particular 'angle' you may be predisposed to.. it's the 'guilty until proven innocent' situation people are thrust into when having to deal with a false positive, alongside your comment about those showing concern most likely being cheaters themselves that caused me to make such a comment.

In any case, anyone can do a search of the net and find numerous examples of people being wrongly banned by PB and then being forced to prove their innocence to a third party who, from what I've read, is like talking to a brick wall. Some never succeed.

For those who have to deal with a false positive, and there will be some, I hope it's as easy and quick to get things fixed as you make it sound.

 

[fozzer]

My clan/community has purchased hacks to test on our PR server, aimbot + see enemies where ever they are + everything else that came with it + 2 other different ones purchased from different sellers, PB didn't catch anything.

Thats a good way to find yourself on a banlist
Posted in every section of our forums is this;
[url]http://www.pbbans.com/forums/announcement-do-not-test-cheats-a1-in-forum319.html[/URL]

It would be interesting to know if you would have considered it a "false positive" if you had tested a cheat in that manner and been detected
You would not believe how many ban appeals we see citing "testing" as an excuse.

PB has been particularly effective in newly released games against the private/paid for, cheats.
Here is a post I made elsewhere explaining why;

 

[aD.Luoson]

How often does PB get updated? Alot of these false postives things coulda happened along time ago and thinks might of improved since then?

 

[SuperTaz]

How often does PB get updated? Alot of these false postives things coulda happened along time ago and thinks might of improved since then?

For the game server updates, EB was doing a good job updating some games almost daily. As for the UCON system, I believe they update that once a month, I think.

You can check out which game was updated when here: http://www.evenbalance.com/

Just click on the game and it will show you when the latest update was for that game.

You could also ask by emailing them here: [email protected]

 

[fozzer]

In any case, anyone can do a search of the net and find numerous examples of people being wrongly banned by PB and then being forced to prove their innocence to a third party who, from what I've read, is like talking to a brick wall.

Didn't you know .... everyone that gets banned is on a banlist for no good reason
Its like every prisoner in jail is innocent.
If you decide to stream a server via PBBans, you will have access to our "quote of the day" thread, you can read the myriad of excuses we see on a daily basis of why players are "wrongly banned".

Depending on your search parameters you can make a case against VAC too
Try typing "vac banned for no reason" into google.

What should be remembered is that the RO2:HOS devs have got together with PB devs and have come up with 3 tiers of PB that can be used by server admins (light/medium/heavy) to specifically address past kick issues.
All 3 modes will be tested vigouruously during the beta stages.
Lets give it a chance before we cry foul

 

[tofupunk]

I agree with REZ, you haven't exactly won me over yet.

What worries me is the shoot first ask later system. You guys seem a little over confident in your and Evenbalances software, and that worries me. That "9/10 are probably cheaters anyway" answer didn't help either.

Don't get me wrong, I like PBBans and anti-cheat. I'm just saying that with great power comes great responsibility, as you practically become hand of the law on the internet. It isn't just about one game anymore, getting banned on a steam account with hundreds(thousands? I really don't want to check ) of dollars worth of games would be devastating. I hope you guys really listen if there is a problem.

Really nice to have you on the forums though, that's a nice gesture.

 

[Floyd]

In RO we were lucky in that (for the most part) the game wasn't rampant with cheats like many of the other game series. So the perception for those that almost exclusively play RO is that cheating is not such a big issue. If you've played, CoD or the like, you've undoubtedly run across a cheater at some point in your game play. If you did not or the encounter was rare, thank PB and perhaps PBBans.

PB implementation and installation has never been 100% perfect. But then neither has a simple install of even Red Orchestra. A quick look in the Support section of any game forums will show you that. I've had my troubles off and on with PB, but for games that I liked to play, I did my due diligence, sorted through the problem and enjoyed playing the game. For those games I didn't care too much about, I didn't bother.

Just as we rarely see evidence of cheating, PBBan staffers deal with hundreds everyday in a myriad of games. They are looking at the problem through a different lens than most of us on the RO forums are. They see things that the majority of the FPS playing public never see and they see it on a grand scale. So when they say that 9/10 that are found with exploits are 'guilty', from my experience with PB and PBBans, I'd be hard pressed to refute that. For that 1/10, there is recourse.

Ideally, everything happens behinds the scenes and the average player never has to deal with any of it and simply enjoys the game. There are the occasional bumps in the road, but those are usually quickly handled within a few days.

And don't forget guys, PPBans is a voluntary thing. Server admins don't have to join PBBans and stream. Server admins can simply let choose to let PB and VAC handle everything. However, if RO2 takes off and becomes the next CoD or BF, I think as players you'll be searching for and playing exclusively on servers that stream to PBBans.

 

[heady89]

Why dont they just vote kick the hacker or get in an admin, or is there a sole purpose of those I dont get?

Because not every server has vote kick enabled and along with votekick comes kids that just wants to kick the first person that kills them. Vote kick has been confirmed as a feature, but surely you can turn it off so only the admins can administrate the server.

Secondly its good to have PB/VAC for undetectable(for a human) cheats or "smart" cheaters, besides.. it's not like there will always been an admin online to monitor the server(s).

 

[IndianScout]

give us a chance I think you'll be pleasantly surprised in our methods..

 

[REZ]

Didn't you know .... everyone that gets banned is on a banlist for no good reason
Its like every prisoner in jail is innocent.

Lets give it a chance before we cry foul

I appreciate your attempt at 'teh funneh' but I think you know that that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Innocent people do fall through the cracks, so let's not take a stance that it doesnt happen.

I wonder if EvenBalance can safely say that everyone who was incorrectly scooped up in this massive ban sweep who were in fact innocent, had their bans reversed - [URL="http://bashandslash.com/index.php?Itemid=78&id=297&option=com_content&task=view"][URL="http://bashandslash.com/index.php?Itemid=78&id=297&option=com_content&task=view"][url]http://bashandslash.com/index.php?Itemid=78&id=297&option=com_content&task=view[/URL][/URL][/URL] Yes, the article is from '08, but it's a fine example of how things can go wrong.. and hey, if EvenBalance can say that everyone banned during that period who shouldnt have been eventually did have their ban reversed, then great! ..but I don't think it went down that way.

I'm not 'crying foul' quite obviously, and I'm more than willing to give it a try.. I'm just a person who has had no experience with PB and I'm voicing some concern because of a plethora of articles, forum posts and personal feedback citing the 'other side' of PunkBuster.

I'm still curious if there is mention of EvenBalance and/or PBBans having the right to render your game useless (or very close to it) written somewhere in the HoS EULA (is PB loaded into your machine when you install HoS?).. or does that fall strictly to the server owners who choose to run this 3rd party software?

 

[Mormegil]

Well if PB bans turn out to be really unfair, I'm pretty sure there will be plenty of server admins who will turn it off.

 

[HeyCarnut]

...
I'm still curious if there is mention of EvenBalance and/or PBBans having the right to render your game useless (or very close to it) written somewhere in the HoS EULA (is PB loaded into your machine when you install HoS?).. or does that fall strictly to the server owners who choose to run this 3rd party software?

+1. Based on my experience with the technical competence of pbbans representatives, I share such concerns. Fortunately, use of it is not mandatory, so if issues are found, server admins won't opt in.

R

 

[MaydaX]

I'm not 'crying foul' quite obviously, and I'm more than willing to give it a try.. I'm just a person who has had no experience with PB and I'm voicing some concern because of a plethora of articles, forum posts and personal feedback citing the 'other side' of PunkBuster.

That's understandable. Just keep in mind there are many who don't have problems with PB as well. They don't often post about it.

I'm still curious if there is mention of EvenBalance and/or PBBans having the right to render your game useless (or very close to it) written somewhere in the HoS EULA (is PB loaded into your machine when you install HoS?).. or does that fall strictly to the server owners who choose to run this 3rd party software?

When you install HoS you should be asked if you want to to install PunkBuster. You can disagree with the PB EULA, PB won't be installed. However, you won't be able to play in PB enabled servers.

PBBans is basically an optional banlist that server admins elect to use. It's not forced upon any server so if a person is banned by PBBans they can play on any server that doesn't use our banlist.

Just remember PB won't be forced on like in other games so player and server admins do have a choice.