Pavlov's house and why it is terrible.

[SasQuatch]

I think the nature of the maps change when you play on 64 player servers vs. 32, in a way that does not scale evenly for both sides.

Anyways, if you want specifics on why Commissar's House is horribad for Allies.

1) No cover between spawns and caps A B and D. An arty call by Axis is large enough to cover the area between spawn and Cap A, even killing people who step out of spawn. PzIV tanks can sit a 400-500 m distance and let the AI hull turret aimbot everything even through smoke. Or they can drive up to spawns and shoot inside with HE and Mgs because there is no spawn protection. If Axis get inside A and B, it's over and it becomes a race over whether Allied reinforcements are depleted or lockdown occurs.

2) Capping E does not restart the lockdown timer. If by some miracle you cap A B C and D, you will run out of time if not reinforcements by E because you don't get additional time.

3) PzIV domination of T-34s. As a PzIV I can kill about 3-4 T-34s before I get killed without using any strategy at all and simply aiming at the front turret. Anti-tank rifles can't touch PzIVs even if they get in position which is rare because they're instantly killed by the hull turret if not by the player. Engineers can't cover the open field to reach the PzIV without dying. This means that in between T-34 spawns, the PzIV can leisurely shoot the mouth of Allied spawn to devastating effect.

As T34 commander on Commissars I've kicked P4 whoopass, alone, against 2 P4's because the rest of my team wanted to play infantry. I can oneshot P4's as much as i can oneshot T34's usually.

 

[BlackLabel]

Exactly...its about knowledge wich need to be GAINED at first...and THAN we can talk balance..srsly... Next time you people feel like "**** it axis wins anyways..." go allies be commander..encourage peeps to take sl..type like a madmann and even if 4 people follow you will see the diffrence...

again it was like that on EVERY NEW ro1 map and after every 5e sale..servers and teamplay went fubar for AT LEAST 2-3 weeks...than people adapted..learned..played together...ect ect...

 

[Nenjin]

That's because you built the game and know the guys that set where the magic "explode you now" point is on the tanks. It's frustrating for a lot of new players because that's specialized knowledge you hear once in the campaign.

I've put plenty of rounds in every part of the flank of a panzer and done diddly squat to it.

I hope TWI can appreciate why some players get pissed off when they can sink 10 rounds into a Panzer's flank at 50m and not even kill a crew member, then get exploded from 500m from a single shot by a panzer. There may be a lot of realism and coding magic going on there, but to many it just seems random and/or crazy unbalanced.

 

[BlackLabel]

Nenjin...you seem to forget that the core appeal for ALOT of people was and IS that ro is tough to learn and hard to master...for some more for some less. IMO we have way way WAY not enough experience or knowledge to judge..simple as that..again..give it another week or two. Thats what ro is.

And regarding the pavlov tank thing...i had a guy oneshotting pz4s left and right today...EASY. he just knew where to aim at from experience. and ****...he knew where to go on the map..half hidden..going back and forth ect ect

As for sideshots..i totaly agree...i had that problem on maps like fallen ****ers...where there is LIMITED flanking options...time will tell iguess..but as allways...it will be intresting to see how things pan out over the next per weeks.

 

[SasQuatch]

That's because you built the game and know the guys that set where the magic "explode you now" point is on the tanks. It's frustrating for a lot of new players because that's specialized knowledge you hear once in the campaign.

I've put plenty of rounds in every part of the flank of a panzer and done diddly squat to it.

I hope TWI can appreciate why some players get pissed off when they can sink 10 rounds into a Panzer's flank at 50m and not even kill a crew member, then get exploded from 500m from a single shot by a panzer. There may be a lot of realism and coding magic going on there, but to many it just seems random and/or crazy unbalanced.

As we mentioned before, we are monitoring balance.

But a T34 might prove to have a higher skill ceiling then a P4 - it is not impossible though. I don't know the exact layout of our tanks. I've learned that aiming for the drivers spot in a P4's front is a good start to try to ignite the P4 head on. I've also learned that a T34 needs cover like there's no tomorrow. The P4 better make sure it's hull down too actually. And what's more, you also need to make sure if you are facing 2 tanks that you only have an exchangable line of fire to one of them at a time. Trying to win a slug fest with two out in the open is a sure way to die.

Unless you are telling us that you are unable to kill a P4 and getting oneshotted in your T34 every time, there is no bug present preventing you from killing a P4 properly as far as I'm aware. Never say no though.

 

[Nenjin]

No, I'm not implying that. I've killed Panzers in the T-34, but I don't think I've ever one-shot a Panzer that hadn't already been hurt. The difference in the ability to survive hull-down also seems to be more important than players realize....because Panzers have punched shots through my front armor with ease (and my turret.) The mobility of the T34s, which is supposed to be one of their advantages, doesn't really seem to be that useful in a lot of situations and maps.

I agree maybe the skill requirements on the T34 are higher (considering the Panzers get AI gunners and the T34s do not, it seems like that's a purposeful design choice), right down to T34s possibly having to learn to gun on the move to stay alive. I'm not really encouraged by that though. I've watched plenty of RO2 tankers already. They know what they're doing. So firing on the move doesn't really seem like a winning strategy either.

I'll try shooting more for the gunner and driver compartments instead of just "the flank".....but I can't help but feel like I've got paper around my tank in a T34, and that they're 80% likely to either blow up my tank, disable a part or kill a crew member with every shot.

 

[LMAOser]

Great, except this is a video game.

You are obviously over-simplifying my statement and drawing uninformed conclusions. Of course this is a video game, and I don't believe that fact was ever up for debate.

There is an inherent paradox in a realistic game. Obviously, if this was an instance of complete realism it wouldn't be a game. Conversely, if this game possessed no realistic attributes, how could it possibly claim to be realistic (which it does, to some extent)?

Realism is not a dichotomy, but a spectrum. This game is neither completely realistic or unrealistic, but a point along this spectrum. The point at which this game should be placed upon the spectrum and the rightness of that location is subjective. The majority of RO veterans and those who seek realism would desire a location further along the side of realism, while those seeking playability at the expense or realism, like yourself, would tend to favor the other direction. Realism and playability are not mutually exclusive, but there must be some sort of compromise.

I would personally favor maps that are more realistic and give one side the obvious advantage. It motivates me to overcome that handicap, and it more closely resembles realism.