Pavlov's house and why it is terrible.

[TheDOW]

The better players gravitate towards the Axis side because they know that the maps are skewed in their favor. The average player doesn't know any better and distribute themselves at random.

Allies need a better team just to break even on most of the maps.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Lots of players are still new and do not understand how things work in game.


SL can be used to spawn closer, Smoke can be used to block tanks, etc. Think outside the box for a solution to the problem, get a mic get your team into action and well... win.

 

[TheGoden]

The better players gravitate towards the Axis side because they know that the maps are skewed in their favor. The average player doesn't know any better and distribute themselves at random.

Allies need a better team just to break even on most of the maps.

Yes i've noticed this. The allies need a solid team JUST to get a stalemate.

 

[BlackLabel]

You think pavlovs house is unbalanced, try playing commissars house

that statement needs to be supported somehow.. booth sides win with propper ro meanies on booth sides..bolster your argument please and say WHY and WHAT makes the map unbalanced....spawntimes ? arty ? spawnprotection or lack thereoff..you guys have NON bolstered arguments...and if you CANT back up what you say its just straight whining.

SRSLY..if ANY of the old folk remmeber the the introduction of new maps..it was ALLWAYS a cluster **** until people learned how to properly defend or attack... now its a NEW GAME WITH NEW MAPS...you people jump to conclusions way too easy...play more..than judge..but dont come here and whine because you got boxed into spawn 2 times...

 

[Nenjin]

Ok, but you've played Commissar's House as Russians right?

Because it's brutal. Failure to capture Building 81 immediately leads to the German team watching every exit to the Russian spawn point from the building, their tank pulled up right into the main lane of approach and the point directly outside of the spawn filled with Germans just for good measure. The allies are literally boxed in on 3-sides, and smoke is the only prayer anyone has of making it out of there alive.

Just last night, over the course of 2 minutes at Building 81, I watched close to 50 people spawn, try to leave the spawn point and just get cut down as they ran. Plenty of guys trying to snipe back or provide cover fire were likewise cut down. Flankers, sprinters, cover-takers, smoke....it didn't matter.

Even my friend said "Man this just feels wrong" and I agree. Short of the whole Russian team waiting for their SLs to throw all 8 smoke grenades, the Russians don't have a prayer on that map if the Germans manage to cap the points ahead of them.

 

[BlackLabel]

Ok, but you've played Commissar's House as Russians right?

i think several times on booth sides...yes...early arty is key...ofc getting the first ops is crucial..but tbh that shouldent be too much of a hassle. Eventho the german commander dident use the arty spot i did when playing germans..thats seems to be pretty brutal. As soon as the first one is down...there is enough capzones to avoid lockdown and advance imo. Just play more agressive and stop camping.


on a sidenote..i see alot of matches without SL roles or even commander played...if people whould start to max out SL slots you get ****aton more smoke and more cappower on top of it...people can spawn on several sls given they joined the squads ect....THINK more...use the presented tool MORE..learn MORE..

 

[Nenjin]

One man does not a team make. You can have all the info in the world, but at the end of the day without a team you're still alone against a "unified" opponent, even if you survive the hell that is the 50 - 100 meters between the Russian spawn and Building 81. The map design simply isn't helping the Russians when they are going to need it the most, when they're pinned.

Considering there is no way to pin the Axis forces without effectively winning the map, maybe they shouldn't be given 4 to 5 overlapping fields of fire on the spawn point. Just because people can use better tactics doesn't mean the map is balanced as well as it could be. Throwing up hedgehogs so the Panzers can't pull literally up to the front doors would be a start. Dropping the Russian spawn point into a recess so there's a burm for people to get behind outside of the spawn, so they can at least decide what the hell they're going to do, would be another.

 

[Crossofiron]

I agree 100%

I agree 100%

And people buy games to enjoy themselves, and chances are they don't enjoy themselves on unbalanced maps. Stop pushing the whole "it's realistic" thing because this game is far from.

Guys. This post is right in the money. Games should be fun and in order to keep players coming back it HAS to be. COD World at War is fun. Not realistic but fun. It is a 3 year old game. Last time I checked there were over 10,000 players. I checked RO and there were 70. If you do not want to play the same 30 guys over and over, RO2 needs to be fixed so that these types of posts are not common.

 

[BlackLabel]

still you have 2 spawns to choose from..booth are working equaly fine for me. All depending on the situation at hand regarding arty/tanks and what you mentioned.

I give you an example as for the axis side first.

I start as commander....mark the t34 wreck rightside of B81 RIGHT AWAY and call arty..than move to the little shed left of B81 and ..bad day for the soviets..works in 80% of the cases...( arty is going down 30 sec into the round..means i get everyone comming from the original spawn that dident move to the obs quickly..Same applies to spartanovka..early arty on church or on gullies..depending on sides can be ****ing devestating..but still there is ways to avoid that )

As russian i mark the first utmost WALL on their side....early arty..lots of smoke....B81 taken...again..people need to LEARN the maps..there is way too many arty lemmings as expected and i still DONT belive that we can talk balance right now on equal fields.


sidenote: It seems on pavlov the cap for square for axis move thorwards the center forceing them to go deeper into the plaza than before..subtile changes ( and i dont deny that there might be some tweak needed ) might help.


As for what i REALLY hate is the sometimes non existant spawn protection. That is pretty obvious on spatanovka when you spawn as axis on the second house line..or as allies on the rightside spawn before the 2nd is taken...uhm..yeah lot of thought...pew..lots of new maps.

 

[Marxman]

I love Pavolv's house, but for some reason noone ever plays it. I don't think its unbalanced at all. I've gotten rolled by Russians on that map a lot. It's one of the few maps with real long distance fighting, all the other maps are too small for my taste. Grain elevator is unbalanced in favor of the Russians, but I think it makes the map better. Germans have to fight hard and use teamwork to win, if it was balanced, you wouldn't see that level of teamwork and cohesion. Its the unbalance in maps that makes you use your squad leaders and commanders to tip the balance, throwing smoke, calling in support, if your team knows how to play their roles its easy to win on either side of any map.

 

[Nenjin]

As for what i REALLY hate is the sometimes non existant spawn protection. That is pretty obvious on spatanovka when you spawn as axis on the second house line..or as allies on the rightside spawn before the 2nd is taken...uhm..yeah lot of thought...pew..lots of new maps.

That's all I want for Commissar's is just some real spawn protection. The building basically becomes an HE round death trap if you choose to stay inside of it. That's why I want some actual terrain mesh people can get behind.

 

[[TORO]Patosentado]

If it is "realistic" Russians should dominate great amounts of germans...

Pavlov's House became a symbol of the stubborn resistance of the Soviet Union in the Battle of Stalingrad, and in the Great Patriotic War in general. It stands out prominently because the German armies had previously conquered cities and entire countries within weeks; yet they were unable to capture a single half-ruined house, defended most of the time by just over a dozen soldiers, in spite of trying for two months. It is reported that the building at the "9th January Square" was marked as a fortress in German maps.

 

[BlackLabel]

If it is "realistic" Russians should dominate great amounts of germans...

wrong perception....RO: HOES is authentic NOT realistic..get the diffrence...

That's all I want for Commissar's is just some real spawn protection.

again..people need to LEARN how to use the tools and maps..give it some time and lets see how maps draw out in like 1 week shall we ?

 

[SasQuatch]

I've played Pavlov's a couple of times today. Russians won most rounds except for 1. Russians won by having most objectives, also won by taking the last German objective. Funny isn't it. But these are just examples.

TWI will be looking at map balances, Pavlov no exception. When the map just started out, the Russian team steamrolled the German team every single time. Right now, looking at comments, the balance might have shifted back too much. It happens. We are aware.

As far as the historical comments go: We made the Territory Pavlovshouse 32 and 64 player version for combined arms. 16 player version does not have tanks. The German Army used Stugs among others to try and tear down the fortified building. So armor was present.

Since we are in the game making business, we chose to have Russian tanks too. Historically incorrect, admittedly, but there you go. Having just German tanks and Russian AT rifles was not a good option for us at that point of development. It would be interesting to see what happens, so maybe someone might make a scenario that works like that.

As far as the stories of war goes: Yes, Pavlovshouse is a very well know war story. We know it too. A true 'hero of Stalingrad'.
I've also read reports that the Red Army wasn't stupid. They were well aware of Pavlov's position. Anyone who thinks Pavlovshouse wasn't a carefully (as far as careful existed at that time) supported outpost is really underestimating the Russian army at the time.

TWI agrees the map could use additional love. Also: Onein said so

 

[BlackLabel]

haha sas i remeber the early morning round...hehe..."so predictable..."

Was good fun tho.

Russians won most rounds except for 1.

hehe..YAP.

 

[LeftHandPath]

Guys. This post is right in the money. Games should be fun and in order to keep players coming back it HAS to be. COD World at War is fun. Not realistic but fun. It is a 3 year old game. Last time I checked there were over 10,000 players. I checked RO and there were 70. If you do not want to play the same 30 guys over and over, RO2 needs to be fixed so that these types of posts are not common.

What fixed? i said it before,what do you want?one win for you and one win for me? so why everyone is talking about cod in every place,forum,game chat? If everyone is missing their cod game,you know what to do dudes.But stop infecting R.O. with your easy-please sugestions.(is not for you Crossofiron)

Ostfront,before the Heroes

 

[SasQuatch]

haha sas i remeber the early morning round...hehe..."so predictable..."

Was good fun tho.



hehe..YAP.

Nice playing against a good commander! Kudos!

 

[BlackLabel]

Nice playing against a good commander! Kudos!

yeah but dont ask how franaticly i typed..GET TO ZABS..CAP IS CLEAR..GET TO PAVLOVS..ect ect...its really good fun... ( and all with sticky key since i spilled several beers over it the last per nights )

anyways..it all comes down to people go with the flow..henche why iam hesitant to say someting is straight out unbalanced at this point.

 

[TheDOW]

I think the nature of the maps change when you play on 64 player servers vs. 32, in a way that does not scale evenly for both sides.

Anyways, if you want specifics on why Commissar's House is horribad for Allies.

1) No cover between spawns and caps A B and D. An arty call by Axis is large enough to cover the area between spawn and Cap A, even killing people who step out of spawn. PzIV tanks can sit a 400-500 m distance and let the AI hull turret aimbot everything even through smoke. Or they can drive up to spawns and shoot inside with HE and Mgs because there is no spawn protection. If Axis get inside A and B, it's over and it becomes a race over whether Allied reinforcements are depleted or lockdown occurs.

2) Capping E does not restart the lockdown timer. If by some miracle you cap A B C and D, you will run out of time if not reinforcements by E because you don't get additional time.

3) PzIV domination of T-34s. As a PzIV I can kill about 3-4 T-34s before I get killed without using any strategy at all and simply aiming at the front turret. Anti-tank rifles can't touch PzIVs even if they get in position which is rare because they're instantly killed by the hull turret if not by the player. Engineers can't cover the open field to reach the PzIV without dying. This means that in between T-34 spawns, the PzIV can leisurely shoot the mouth of Allied spawn to devastating effect.

 

[Nenjin]

I used to think so about Red Oktober...but then I started going up the left side as Russians, and the only thing that tends to stop an advance up that way is a tank.