Panzers - Anyone actually know how to use them?

[silent assassin]

Anyone know how to angle the p4 & p3? Ive tried loads of times to find how to get shells to deflect but nothing seems to work.

EDIT:

Went on krivoi rog on my own for a p4 test session. It seems u can only ange the p4 so it deflects off one side.

For example, if i angle the tank at 20 past 11 it only deflects off the side amrour & not the front which is not very helpful coz the front is more exposed.

But

If i angle it at 20 past 10, the front armour deflects, but the side armour doesnt, which, gagin is lame coz the side is more exposed.

Ill try to test more & post back results.

 

[LogisticEarth]

In my experience, the P4 and P3 are much harder to properly angle than thier Soviet counterpart, the T-34. Generally though, you've got it right, try and angle around 11 o'clock. It's kind of a crapshoot, and depends on the exact tank model.

Best bet is to simply find a hull down position and use natural cover. If you know side X is more vunerable at the angle you're shooting at, try and hide that side behind some kind of inpenetrable surface...

...like a wooden table or fence.

 

[silent assassin]

Ill have a go with the p4 against lighter tanks & see how it fares up.

Had a tryout with the tiger against the is2. The best angle for the Tiger to survive is to angle at half past 10 or half past 1. & if u get some sneaky t34 85 behind u, angle at half past 4 or half past 7, for some reason, angling the rear armour is as fully effective as angling the frontal armour, so if u position ur tiger right it becomes defacto invincible.

Edit: Ill have a try with all of the german tanks to try & find deflection angles. As far as i know the panther is best at 11 or 1 oclock

 

[clambo]

If you can get hull down with the turret mostly behind a hill - the incoming shells will deflect alot more from your average tanker opponents. The Panzer long barrel IV gun is harder hitting ( a power of 7) at long ranges than the T-34 guns (I think the
T34-76mm is rated at a power of 5, and the T34-85mm is rated a power of 6 ) So open fire from a hull down low position at longer ranges and "light 'em up".

One last thing - at long ranges the T-34 drivers have shown a tendency to not stop as fast to trade fire - they have gotten used to the speed of the T-34, and the angled armor letting them close up the distance before they stop to shoot. If you lead them properly you get the 1st hit in, and if that makes them stop - the Panzer IVs relatively fast reload will let you get the free 2nd shot in too - *most of the time

If you are in the Panzer III - remember to use the APCB shells within 600 meters

Good Hunting

 

[arnold]

same for t34 ! just angle at 0115 or 1045!

a intelligent tanker would think: i cant penetrate the hull, so i will try to shoot the side of the turret that is in a perfect 90 degreee angle to me. after the shot you will notice how stupid the standard tanks are. the turret has no own turning hitbox.
if you cant penetrate the hull you cant penetrate the turret. thats great issnt it?

and its so hard to fix that 1 (one !!!) person has fixed this issue and has integrated a independent turret into a mutator called "amored beasts".

 

[silent assassin]

Yeah, i think i had a go with armoured beasts a while back, do shots still reflect off the tanks etc?

Why werent realistic tank physics implemented into the game? ala panzerfront.

 

[D3terioNation]

Went on krivoi rog on my own for a p4 test session

Firstly stay away from that map. Possibly the worst map ever made!

Secondly with the p3 & 4, you should count yourself lucky you survived the first hit. Just sitting there and relying on the angle system aint gonna get you far. If you want to do that, pick the Tiger!

Fire and move, thats what those tanks were designed for. Good gun & good speed, use it.

 

[arnold]

Yeah, i think i had a go with armoured beasts a while back, do shots still reflect off the tanks etc?

sure! if you are in the right tank at the right distance the shots will reflect. but dont expect the bt7 to reflect pantherrounds!

Why werent realistic tank physics implemented into the game? ala panzerfront.

i guess time and money.

 

[silent assassin]

Ive found that the p4 cant be angled to deflect shots from both front & side armour at the same time, its gonna be one or the other. Between 20 to 11 & 10 past 11 the tank has a sort of blind spot where neither of the sides will deflect shells at all. Could this be a bug of some sort?

U cant really say dont rely on angle system when the entire range of enemy tanks uses this sytem. I would pretty much expect a shell to bounce off a t34 whenever i see him, which is fair enough. But considerring that most of the tank maps require germans to be on offensive means that the p4 especially will try to go head on with either a t34 or kv1 on bondarevo for instance, & get totalled in 1 to 3 shots, whereas the p4's shots have all but bounced off.

 

[TT33]

For the Panzer IV H (not applicable to the F, F2, G) on stock RO vs 76 mm tanks (KV, T34/76, SU 76) try to angle to the right at about 1:05 to 1:15. Angling to the left doesnt work as well. For Armored Beasts Pz IV H dont waste time angling against 76 mm tanks just keep your front at him and keep him more than 150 meters away and he wont be able to damage you.

after the shot you will notice how stupid the standard tanks are

Secondly with the p3 & 4, you should count yourself lucky you survived the first hit.

Yeah, i think i had a go with armoured beasts a while back, do shots still reflect off the tanks etc?

If you read up about the Pz IV (H) vs the T-34/76, the 80 mm front (actually a bit better than 80mm due to the use of Face Hardened Armor) was very tough to penetrate by the 76 mm equipped Soviet tanks due to the weak penetrative power and the very poor gun accuracy and optics as well. Realistically the Pz IV late G-H outclasses the T-34/76 in armor, firepower, accuracy, and later even in moblitiy if ost-ketten (special wide track designed for ost-front in 1944) was used. The Pz IV late G-J is more closely compared with the T-34/85 which the Pz IV still retains an advantage at long distances 1000m+ due to the Pz IV's better optics and better penetrative/ballistic properties.

In stock RO forget it the T-34/76 will kill you from any range from the front with little trouble. AB however is much better but sadly AB suffers from many bugs. For example there are a lot of shots that hit an enemy vehicle and penetrate (penetration effect is clearly visable) but cause no damage at all to the tank (once it was so bad the entire server emptied due to frustration, might be caused by high ping) There have been many times when 5-6 rounds are needed to take out 1 tank no matter where you hit, sometimes a hit to the front of your armor is calculated as a rear or side hit, the mantlet is not modeled on tanks instead the "turret front" is modeled on all tanks (the mantlet covers most of the front turret on some tanks such as the Tiger I, Panther, possibly the Is-2 and the Pz IIIL) and lastly the tanks still have unreal deflections although it is better than the stock it is still too excessive a 122 mm will deflect from a Panzer IV H or Stug III as well as an 88mm will from the T-34 especially when hit on an angle or on the side turret when not perpedicular.

 

[silent assassin]

Yeah i remember that problem with AB, shmae its not been sorted.

"B however is much better but sadly AB suffers from many bugs. For example there are a lot of shots that hit an enemy vehicle and penetrate (penetration effect is clearly visable) but cause no damage at all to the tank"

Doesnt that sometimes happen on stock RO? Ive usually got my panzer trained on t34/85's that can take up to 6 penatration shots to kill on servers with 120+ ping.

 

[TT33]

Doesnt that sometimes happen on stock RO? Ive usually got my panzer trained on t34/85's that can take up to 6 penatration shots to kill on servers with 120+ ping.

Yeah its a stock problem but its alot more common on AB for some reason whatever your ping.

 

[Basil]

I think the best way to utilize these tanks is to recognise the fact that they don't really offer much protection, therefore you should always try to stay behind a solid cover as long as possible and show up only to take a shot. And when you see a properly angled Russian tank, don't even bother to start a shooting competetion with it. Instead you should retreat behind the cover and either wait for the Russian to show up or flank him by utilizing ever possible obstacle that offers even some cover. Usually when you are in a situation where angling becomes an issue, there isn't much else to do than try to inflict maximum damage before those 1-3 killing hits and already start thinking how the situation could have been avoided so that you don't do the same mistake again.

Usually you can do pretty much anything with Pz4 provided that the tankers on the Russian side aren't all elite. There's almost always some stuff laying around that can be used as cover. Generally I definately like Pz4 more than Tiger, since it has faster rate of fire, smaller size and faster turret, and its weak armor forces you to think and act proactively. It's pretty dull to play with tanks like IS-2 or Panter when you can basically sit on your arse in some corner and slaughter everyone who comes in sight.

 

[LogisticEarth]

Usually you can do pretty much anything with Pz4 provided that the tankers on the Russian side aren't all elite. There's almost always some stuff laying around that can be used as cover. Generally I definately like Pz4 more than Tiger, since it has faster rate of fire, smaller size and faster turret, and its weak armor forces you to think and act proactively.

I've learned to LOVE the PIII for these reasons exactly. On Black Day July I almost exclusively go for the P3 if I can get my hands on it. It's tiny, has a nice flat tragetory, and high rate of fire. If you cram it into a crater or behind one of the static destroyed tanks on BDJ or other maps, you can wreak havoc. On mulitple occasions I've stopped up to 10 or more Soviet tanks singlehandedly.

Also, about angled shots: Never underestimate the power of the tread shot. While it's not a garunteed thing, taking a pot shot at an angled T-34's treads might immobilize him, making him much less effective and possibly keep him out of the cap zone.

 

[Tank!]

And when you see a properly angled Russian tank, don't even bother to start a shooting competetion with it.

and its weak armor forces you to think and act proactively

Thats the point isnt it? Of all the tanks in game the T34 deflects more than 75 % of the time even rediculous close range shots from all German guns. A bug or something overlooked by the devs?

Anyone know how to angle the p4 & p3?

Like some guy said earlier about 1:00 ish in a Pz4H will deflect 76 mms in stock RO. Not sure about the other Pz4s but the Pz IIIs armor value in stock RO is way too weak for the model (the "L") being depicted so it will probably not deflect a thing unless you are extremely lucky.

 

[Pharnakes]

Its not L, its J, the L had armoured skirts.

 

[silent assassin]

After all this panzer research, ive learned 2 things 1) started to really get to grips with the tiger. Had a go on konigsplatz & i must say that angling at half 10 or half past 1 is really effective at striking fear into the russian team. Most ppl expect to kill it in one shot or rape it when as its leaving spawn but when those shells start bouncing off all hell breaks loose. Its a really effective buffer in stopping the ruski's from overrunning your team.

2) i need a mic to really communicate quickly & effectively with my driver, im fed up of fidling around with the voice comms getting the angle set right only to be blown up coz im not paying attention to the battlefield.

 

[LogisticEarth]

After all this panzer research, ive learned 2 things 1) started to really get to grips with the tiger. Had a go on konigsplatz & i must say that angling at half 10 or half past 1 is really effective at striking fear into the russian team. Most ppl expect to kill it in one shot or rape it when as its leaving spawn but when those shells start bouncing off all hell breaks loose. Its a really effective buffer in stopping the ruski's from overrunning your team.

2) i need a mic to really communicate quickly & effectively with my driver, im fed up of fidling around with the voice comms getting the angle set right only to be blown up coz im not paying attention to the battlefield.

On Konigsplatz, you can get the Tiger entrenched near the ruins on the right side of the Reichstag Approach, and basically control the whole west side of the map. Russian tankers will go CRAZY trying to get you out of there. And if you do it right, you can only have a bit of your properly angled frontal armor exposed. IS-2 shells will bounce off you all day. Leave the left side of the map to the Pak soldiers. You'll know you're doing well if they start wasting arty strikes on you out of frustration. This will really help the Seigsaulle defense.

As for communication, I've found using Vehicle Chat instead of a mic works a lot better. The problem is that there's no (functioning) vehicle-only mic channel, so you clog up your teams VOIP if you use the mic. It also gets hectic trying to shout out orders/alarms when someone's trying to give infantry orders at the same time. Signals can easily get crossed. Reserve mic use for absolute emergencies in tanks I say.

 

[silent assassin]

Yeah thats the way i go, left side is easily covered by infantry so no point wasting a decent tank on them. I suddenly realised the tiger must be a match when some guy, forget his name (stormtruppen or something) had the tank to himself pinning down the is2.

I also managed to spot where the t34/85 usually sits when you get destroyed after passing the corner of the reichstag building. seeing as i always pre-angle the tank i managed to easily defend myself.

Shame there isnt a vehicle mic channel, that would be a really useful tool.

 

[TT33]

Its not L, its J, the L had armoured skirts.

Also the front and the turret clearly show the 50+20 mm spaced armor. My guess looking at the entire model is that it is a Panzer III F converted to an L as many were during WW II that would explain the early style front drive wheel. About the skirts the skirts were added later and even the earlier Panzer III J later even received them.