Panzer IV is overpowered

[Bowcaster]

So, are you saying that a 40m shot from a T34 to the PIV ammo storage is useless because by some sort of magic, the idiocy of the russian crew negates the round effectiveness?

Idiot loader put the round in backwards .

 

[hanky]

Yeah, I've had this problem. I try flanking the PIV just to wast time and die cause they still have the advantage, Im shooting his side/rear and he is shooting my front, yet some how he still wins.

And I'm not new to tanking games, been playing WW2 online since release.

Don't tell me we don't have the tatics. This is a small map, (well not that small) and the game play of the map is to capture objectives in a short time. So your telling me to flank and use tactics (which I'm doing) but the time it takes me to drive around and flank and "maybe" get a slight advantage the germans already captured 1 objective and moving on the next. Even if I kill that wave of Germans the next is sure on It's way and because its the same guys not a new wave of german tanks they know my location. If I flanked again game play would be boring as hell for the russian side, just driving 20 minutes to get around a tank, that can STILL turn its turret leaving its back exposed to you can kill you.

And I bet all these people saying "tactics" are playing the German side just driving straight at objectives.


I know this is beta so lets hope it gets addressed, but if you release a game that just has 2 tanks, 1 per side, it has to be even, not symmetric even, but even some how. If we had more tanks per side, would be easier to balance.

The quick fix, if the tanks are how they will be come release, is more Russian tanks than German tanks, like stated above.

 

[skittlesareyum47]

It definitely has an advantage, but I've learned to out maneuver and shoot on the move. I find it funny that the PIV is the one that is over powered though, when it was the T36 that was clearly the superior. *prepares for rage by "tank experts".

 

[rada660]

It definitely has an advantage, but I've learned to out maneuver and shoot on the move. I find it funny that the PIV is the one that is over powered though, when it was the T36 that was clearly the superior. *prepares for rage by "tank experts".

T34, here my rage from medium tank semi-expert, YOU DAM SPELLED IT WRONG! >:O

 

[Schildmiller]

iv been getting killed by t34s in 1 shot from the front so, i dont think this is correct at all lol.

 

[Falkenhorst]

iv been getting killed by t34s in 1 shot from the front so, i dont think this is correct at all lol.

Yeah I don't know what the problem is here. I have been playing BOTH sides and they are pretty much killing each other at all ranges. It all comes down to gunnery skills.

 

[easton1234]

The 75mm gun on the p4 was superior to the 76mm gun of the t34....... Better gun vs better armor......... the t34 had a pea-shooter.....low velocity.

 

[Schildmiller]

The 75mm gun on the p4 was superior to the 76mm gun of the t34....... Better gun vs better armor......... the t34 had a pea-shooter.....low velocity.

Russian Armor wasnt really "good" people fail to recognize what the materials were used to make a t34. It was junk metal compared to German metal. In reality, with even teams, Germany should be winning consistently.

 

[Demonic Spoon]

I find the T-34 does fine if you manage to get close. At close ranges, **** gun/**** optics stop mattering...and T-34 has enough speed to make that happen.

 

[TheRealGunther]

The kv-1 would be a nice counter it was the one tank the germans had trouble taking out in stalingrad.The pic below shows multi round hits from the side! and it still kept fighting would force germans to use the engineer on it.

 

[Niklas]

It would be much easier to win on the tank maps if it was easier to flank and there wud be more cover, but in this envirement the T34 simply gets raped by the german tanks.

 

[Poerisija]

Actually it's not correct. The ranges at which we are fighting the F-34 would penetrate the Panzer IV G from any angle 99% of the time whereas the Panzer IV G wouldn't penetrate the T-34 every time. The Panzer IV's advantage in gun would not offset it's huge disadvantage in armor. Properly angled the T-34's armor would be effectively 100 mm, from the front about 90 mm. The PZ IV has very weak sides and thus angling shouldn't give it much of an advantage since then you can just shoot it through the side. A good simulator of these factors is a game called Men of War.

Men of War...

Where a M36 and a Tiger take a duel. They're both advancing on each other front-up... both out of range and cannot fire. When they enter range, they can both penetrate each other frontally instantly. This is exactly 0.1 meters closer than when they were out of range.

I know Men of War has great physics and tank armour simulation, but it's really silly to compare it to a non-rts tank game.

 

[RiccardoTheBeAst]

Oh no, this type of thread......

First, it's IMPOSSIBLE to balance two different tanks without making the game unrealistic.

Second, the problem isn't about balance but it's about bugs. There are lot of bug with the tanks, and i noticed that there are more bug about T-34 than the Pz IV, even if both are really bugged. T-34 it's simply unplayable with this level of bug......

Pz IV is also over-speeded a lot, it reaches it's "max onroad speed" on the snow!

 

[DingDong09]

I know Men of War has great physics and tank armour simulation, but it's really silly to compare it to a non-rts tank game.

Doesn't matter, the fact remains that at the ranges we're fighting at the Panzer IV G would be mincemeat every time.

 

[Moyako]

Second, the problem isn't about balance but it's about bugs.

Finally, someone got the point :IS2:

 

[DingDong09]

The only range at which the Panzer IV G might not get penetrated by a T-34 is above 1000 m, since most engagements in this game take place at far shorter range the shells should more or less go in each time.

 

[Krator]

Just aim at the mighty 50mm turret...

I don't really get what's the problem with balance. Pz IV has hull impenetrable for T34 at above 400-500m, but its turret is pretty much made of paper. Yes, it is harder to hit the turret than just mindlessly fire at hull, but most of us can adjust, right?

T34 on the other hand is pretty much dead meat unless ungled at about 40 degrees, but in such case just fire at the turret or side hull.
Anyways, T34 is faster, it should be pretty much impenetrable to AT rifles. Don't try to snipe with it. Move move move.
In Darkest Hour allied team using "paper" shermans often wins against german team using tigers and panthers. How? By using cover, ambushes and speed of some of their tanks.

 

[Field Marshal Rommel]

it's better armoured but the shaping means it was roughly as easy to penetrate as the t-34

Incorrect. Shaping or no shaping, the KV1 was a much tougher and harder beast to kill.

But there aren't any match-ups that are closer in this time period?

Panzer III L vs T-34-76.

Actually it's not correct. The ranges at which we are fighting the F-34 would penetrate the Panzer IV G from any angle 99% of the time whereas the Panzer IV G wouldn't penetrate the T-34 every time. The Panzer IV's advantage in gun would not offset it's huge disadvantage in armor. Properly angled the T-34's armor would be effectively 100 mm, from the front about 90 mm. The PZ IV has very weak sides and thus angling shouldn't give it much of an advantage since then you can just shoot it through the side. A good simulator of these factors is a game called Men of War.

You shouldn't use other games as an example of what should be happening in this game. The F-34 would penetrate the Panzer IV's 50 mm turret front & hull front up to about 1,100 meters whereas the KWK-40 would penetrate the T34's 45mm hull front up to about 1,600 meters and a bit farther than that for its turret front. A "properly angled" T34 would be made into swiss cheese by hits on any part of the turret, hits on the exposed weak sides, and even hits on the glacis as the 75 mm will overmatch through the thin (45 mm) and poor quality armor on the T34.

So, are you saying that a 40m shot from a T34 to the PIV ammo storage is useless because by some sort of magic?

If this is the case then the shot's explosive filler and after penetration effects needs a good tweaking/buffing by the devs.

Just add a weak point in the front of Pz IV, at the driver's position.

Also add the glacis hatch weak point for the T34. 50 mm hits from Panzer IIIs actually tended to cave in and destroy these hatches in real life on T34s. This is talked about in the book Panzertruppen.

I find it funny that the PIV is the one that is over powered though, when it was the T34 that was clearly the superior

Actually, when the KWK-40 was put in the PIV the superiority passed to the PIV.

Doesn't matter, the fact remains that at the ranges we're fighting at the Panzer IV G would be mincemeat every time.

Also applies to the T34.

Pz IV has hull impenetrable for T34 at above 400-500m, but its turret is pretty much made of paper.

Krator, you would be right if the Panzer IV in this game had 80 mm for the hull but it looks like a Panzer IV F2 with 50 mm for the hull.

 

[Krator]

If it is 50mm, then I don't see what's the problem. It has no chance to bounce anything but has superior cannon, optics and ergonomics. It seems really well balanced.
If it is 80mm then it has some advantage on tank only maps and next to none on combined arms (sides are just big and easy targets for PTRD).

 

[AmazingMilto]

Yesterday at Grumaks (?), by luck I turned around a house and found a PIV minding his own business, aiming in the oposite direction.

"LULZ you die, n00b!!!", were the smart and wise words that came to my mind. As he was about 40m I took the time to aim at his ammo storage and shot fom almost a perfect 90