Panzer IV H and STUG G variants.
- Thread starter kabex
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Heinz said:
im thinking about a "near" equial team, from the player skills and strength in a full(30) server. You will see the russians wining there more often then germans. Cause of the reasons mentioned from above and in other "tanks-are-bugged" threads.
that's right... even if both teams use angles and stuff, the russians are winning, mainly because of:
-Su-76 titaniumspruce armour
-T-34's sloped armor, speed and firepower (but that's ok)
-bridge-, tank- and flag- hunting Clowncars
-weak F2s in 1944
So even if you've got equivalent teams in number and skill the vehicles aren't fair for the germans in case of inf transport, maintank and aussaultgun...
-Su-76 titaniumspruce armour
-T-34's sloped armor, speed and firepower (but that's ok)
-bridge-, tank- and flag- hunting Clowncars
-weak F2s in 1944
So even if you've got equivalent teams in number and skill the vehicles aren't fair for the germans in case of inf transport, maintank and aussaultgun...
Sichartshofen said:I can easily replace those F2's with Panthers.
though, the panters are the best german tank. But they woud loose there main power on arad, the distance
but at least they are much more fair, then this ridiculous panzer IV F2
Yes, lets turn what is obviously 'Soviet bias' to complete German bias as far as tank maps are concerned. That will fix the problem.
Yes, it will.Maschine Pistole-38 said:Yes, lets turn what is obviously 'Soviet bias' to complete German bias as far as tank maps are concerned. That will fix the problem.
You can have it that way, but in turn for every T-34 on the map three more will be added. Not only that but the Russians will recieve much more artillery calls and and insanely higher reinforcement pool.
This thread is an example of realism=gameplay, in real life German tanks were better. They could beat any Allied tank 1 on 1, but in a video game it doesn't work that like. You can't have one side that will have 100% of its strength shown, while the other is horribly outmatched because it used numbers to win.
Honestly, the German and Soviet tanks have an even fight right now. Sure on Arad the odds are stacked in the Soviets favor, but thats because of the setting of the map. I am sure a lot of you are upset that it took custom maps to show that a T-34 and PzIVF2 are even. But if thats what it takes, then fine atleast it got done.
This thread is an example of realism=gameplay, in real life German tanks were better. They could beat any Allied tank 1 on 1, but in a video game it doesn't work that like. You can't have one side that will have 100% of its strength shown, while the other is horribly outmatched because it used numbers to win.
Honestly, the German and Soviet tanks have an even fight right now. Sure on Arad the odds are stacked in the Soviets favor, but thats because of the setting of the map. I am sure a lot of you are upset that it took custom maps to show that a T-34 and PzIVF2 are even. But if thats what it takes, then fine atleast it got done.
Santini said:
I said the T-34 and PzIVF2 are an even match, are you agreeing or just being a smartass? Considering we see no maps of plain PzIII and PzIV short barrled versus T-34/76s, be happy you get the PzIVF2 to combat the T34/76.
The Germans started designing the Panther AFTER meeting the T34 for a reason remember?
kabex said:
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz4.htm#panther
If you are gonna say somebody is wrong, show some proof. The Panther began its design almost 6 months after meeting the T-34.
Have a nice day.
The T-34 hurried its conception, but the succesor to the PzIV was being worked on since before Barbarossa(as is logical).Maschine Pistole-38 said:
The PzIV was a 1937 tank... you think they never thought it'd need to be replaced? That is what I call "retarded".
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/tanks_heavy/pzkpfw_v.html
People saying the Panther was only made because of the T-34 are misinformed.
At an Army Weapons Department technical conference held on October 28, 1935, Daimler-Benz suggested using the M 71 (DB 600) aircraft engine that would produce 550-600 hp for a Grosstraktor (heavy tractor) that was being considered to be added to the Panzer forces. The Army Weapons Department on June 3, 1937, issued a contract to Daimler-Benz for a mock-up of the heavy tank. The engines were initially scheduled to be ready in the spring of 1938 but were delayed by other priorities. Two MB 507 engines were converted and used in the VK 3001 (dB) prototype.
Other contracts were given to Henschel, MAN, and Porsche to develop a tank to eventually replace the PzKpfw IV. It was to initially have the 7.5 cm KwK L/24 tank gun and then later have the 10.5 cm KwK L/28 in the turret.
Porsche was instructed at the end of 1939 to develop a heavy tank between 25 and 30 tons with the 7.5 cm KwK L/24 gun, and possibly later have the 10.5 cm KwK installed. Nicknamed the Leopard within Porsche. It had twin engines. Nibelungenwerke in St. Valentin built 2 prototypes in 1940.
When the Russian T-34/76 was first encountered the design program was sped up. In November 1941, General Guderian (commander of Panzergruppe II in Russia) wrote a report suggesting that a commission should be formed immediately to design a tank to be able to gain supremacy over Russian T-34 tanks. The Armaments Ministry sent a commission to the Russian front to study the T-34, and on November 15, 1941, it's initial report stated that the T-34 was superior because of sloped armor, large road wheels and tracks, and a large caliber gun.
Tanks with sloped armour were pre-war, so to say that they stole this idea is ridiculous, they could have stolen it from the French or whoever.
The T-34 was advanced for its time, definitely. To say it was the sole reason for the Pz V is silly.
Anyway, it's usually Soviet fanboys who say that the T-34 was so absolutely powerful that it made the Germans build a new tank just because of it. Haha. I see this being thrown around on the internet all the time and these people are completely wrong, it's just hearsay.
damn naziphiles overshadow the unrealistic shortcomings of the german armour in RO with their wet dream hitler youth fantasies about unpenetrated tigers and panthers for every map.
Its because of these closet nazis people are reluctant to get behind the cause of balancing the armours
Its because of these closet nazis people are reluctant to get behind the cause of balancing the armours
kabex said:
What are you talking about? The PzIV was never replaced, hence continual additions of upgrading its main cannon and armor.
Okay, I can see adding a bigger gun. Something the Germans had a natural fetish for, but where is the addition of more armor and making it sloped? This 'design' could be almost identical to the Tigers.
Everything the Panther had and nothing what the Germans had at the time.
Oh? I don't think you would be happy if RO had the KV-2 either would you? Of course that didn't inspire the Tiger (From what I know) The T-34 was the most influencal tank of the war. Hell almost every Soviet tank has been the most influencial. But would you like to derail your thread even more kabex and argue with me till the wee hours of the night?
Actually the KV-2 is really a anti infantry tank with a large 152mm gun for HE supression, its not a tank killer.
The KV-1 inspired the Tiger, cause only an 88mm AA gun could penetrate it, if you read in Panzer operations from General Raus, they had to wheel up an 88 at night and to shoot the KV-1 to kill it which was holding up a division.
The brand new 50mm PAK gun was penetrating but only making pinpricks and not bothering the crew.
the 37mm was making grooves in the armour and nothing else.
But the reason why they soviets did win barbarossa battles was the T-34 and KV-1 were in so limited numbers that they were hardly fought against. the real soviets tanks at the time with the BT-7's and T-26's very light tanks. The T-34 production was tiny compared to the BT-7 and T-26.
The KV-1 in the game is totally not realistic at all, here is the armour factor of a KV-1
Front Side Rear
turret 90/Curved 75/15deg 75/15deg
Upper Hull 75/30 75/0deg 60/50deg
Lower Hull 75/30 75/0deg 75/20deg
So a PIV Short 1941 could not pentrate it or a PIII 50mm
only a PIV Long 1942 could do it and later.
The KV-1 inspired the Tiger, cause only an 88mm AA gun could penetrate it, if you read in Panzer operations from General Raus, they had to wheel up an 88 at night and to shoot the KV-1 to kill it which was holding up a division.
The brand new 50mm PAK gun was penetrating but only making pinpricks and not bothering the crew.
the 37mm was making grooves in the armour and nothing else.
But the reason why they soviets did win barbarossa battles was the T-34 and KV-1 were in so limited numbers that they were hardly fought against. the real soviets tanks at the time with the BT-7's and T-26's very light tanks. The T-34 production was tiny compared to the BT-7 and T-26.
The KV-1 in the game is totally not realistic at all, here is the armour factor of a KV-1
Front Side Rear
turret 90/Curved 75/15deg 75/15deg
Upper Hull 75/30 75/0deg 60/50deg
Lower Hull 75/30 75/0deg 75/20deg
So a PIV Short 1941 could not pentrate it or a PIII 50mm
only a PIV Long 1942 could do it and later.
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All that is needed to balance the armor is to have the tanks that existed in the time period the map tanks place and by which tanks the division portrayed had at the time. So a map like Arad with the 23rd Panzer Division would give the Germans Panthers and PzIV Ausf H's. The Russians would then get IS-2's and a mixture of T34/76 and T34/85s.Moz said:
ViViD said:
Ah I just thought the KV-2 was a KV-1 but with more armor and an insane main cannon. But about the KV-1 in RO, it is the KV-1S which has less armor and has a weaker gun (Atleast I think so, not too sure)
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