Osama Bin Laden Killed in Pakistan

[Floyd]

I'm also fairly certain the operation was conducted with the knowledge of the Pakistani government, at least that is what the news here is saying.

You mean conducted without the knowledge of the Pakastani govt.
Zadari has already admitted not knowing anything about the raid.

Bush laid the gauntlet down to all countries about the US policy towards terrorism and al-Qaida in particular.

It was infact part of the so-called "Bush Doctrine." To paraphrase:

1."Make no distinction between terrorists and the nations that harbor them--and hold both to account."
2."Take the fight to the enemy overseas before they can attack us again here at home."
3."Confront threats before they fully materialize."
4."Advance liberty and hope as an alternative to the enemy's ideology of repression and fear."

and to quote:

We will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.

One can argue legality, morality, double standard, etc. until they're blue in the face. The US has been pretty much 'in your face' with regards toward al-Quaida. I'm glad to see the policy carry on with the current adminstration. I have my differences with some of his politics, but I give Obama props for stepping up to the plate on this one.

 

[Nezzer]

big post

In that matter I agree with you, it was the right thing to do, but something like what's happening in Lybia is a whole another thing. "We are defending the human rights". Yeah, right...

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

You mean conducted without the knowledge of the Pakastani govt.
Zadari has already admitted not knowing anything about the raid.

Bush laid the gauntlet down to all countries about the US policy of terrorism and al-Qaida in particular.

It was infact part of the so-called "Bush Doctrine." To paraphrase:



and to quote:


One can argue legality, morality, double standard, etc. until they're blue in the face. The US has been pretty much 'in your face' with regards toward al-Quaida. I'm glad to see the policy carry on with the current adminstration. I have my differences with some of his politics, but I give Obama props for stepping up to the plate on this one.

+1. Agree with everything you say.

 

[REZ]

"Mr. President, we have gathered reliable intel and can now confirm with absolute certainty that Bin Laden is hiding in Abbottabad, Pakistan."

"Great news, send in the SEALs!"

"I'm... afraid we can't do that, Mr. President. If we'd go after him we'd infringe on Pakistan's sovereignty."

"But he killed thousands of innocent people, he's the world's most wanted man, the world's biggest terrorist, the architect of 9/11!"

"Sorry, but respecting Pakistan's sovereignty is more important than achieving justice. I suggest we bend over to terrorism and not do this operation. Osama may laugh at our weakness, but at least we know we've done the right thing, deep in our bleeding hearts."

"Dammit.. I guess you're right. Oh well, let's just let Osama live there in peace then. Group hug!"

... Yeah, I don't think that happened. 'Sovereignty' is utterly meaninless in a land of conflict and in a situation like this. Obama did the right thing.

EDIT:

What an interesting post. It would'nt hurt you to think a little deeper sometimes. Yes, Osama deserved what he got; the man gained his reputation by wantonly killing innocent people to further his ideology (something the US is familiar with in their own 'we'll give them democracy!' 'nation building' sort-of way). I'm certainly not trying to defend him ffs.

Yet, such an enlightening statement coming from you - 'Sovereignty' is utterly meaninless in a land of conflict and in a situation like this. Wow. Use your head and put away the 'might = right; if you dont agree than you're some sort of bleeding heart pussy' crap. That macho stance is so tired, and quite honestly damaging. If you cant see the precedence it sets, the possible consequences of acting like you own the planet and can do whatever you want in other peoples countries at any time, then I dont what else to say.

I just brought it up as an interesting situation to discuss.. I really didnt expect to hear so much limp acceptance to it ('we've been talking about it for decades' 'America is dominate' 'the US does it everyday so it isnt news or worthy of talking about' - wtf kind of comments are these?) much less in-your-face-dick-swinging like your post. Did you chant 'USA! USA! USA!' when you heard the news?

..and one last time, Osama deserved everything he got. I applaud Obama and JSOC for being able to find him and deal with him. However I think the way it played out is another black mark on us that goes beyond our continuing stance on Al-Queda. I still have problems with how the US, my own country, acts like a bully all over the world. Our preferred method of diplomacy is kicking you in the balls and putting you in a rear-naked choke - economically or militarily. Then come the justifications.

 

[Reise]

It would'nt hurt you to think a little deeper sometimes.

I think the problem is too many people try to do this.

And it's especially troubling when so few really know what's what as far as the middle east, Osama, and US operations there.

Sure it's healthy to question authority and the media but it gets to a point where you need to sit back and realize that not everything is or has to be a conspiracy. Just because things seem odd to you doesn't mean there's suddenly a grand plan to lie to people for no reason, it just means you don't know enough yet.

 

[Fedorov]

I think the problem is too many people try to do this.

And it's especially troubling when so few really know what's what as far as the middle east, Osama, and US operations there.

Sure it's healthy to question authority and the media but it gets to a point where you need to sit back and realize that not everything is or has to be a conspiracy. Just because things seem odd to you doesn't mean there's suddenly a grand plan to lie to people for no reason, it just means you don't know enough yet.

He is not talking about conspiracies.

 

[Reise]

I know, that's why I quoted that one sentence.

I was responding to that idea, not the whole post.

 

[Mormegil]

He is not talking about conspiracies.

Or, is he?!?

YouTube - Dramatic Chipmunk


In all seriousness, the latest out is OBL was unarmed when they shot him.

I figure, they tried to get him with a cruise missile a few years ago. We don't know if he was armed or unarmed then. In this case, we don't know if was going for a weapon, or if the SEALs thought he was going for a weapon. One thing for sure, the SEALs were in a hostile environment, in a firefight. I'm not surprised if they shot him with an abundance of caution.

Or maybe the capture part of "kill or capture" was a fantasy all along.

 

[timur]

Or, is he?!?

YouTube - Dramatic Chipmunk


In all seriousness, the latest out is OBL was unarmed when they shot him.

I figure, they tried to get him with a cruise missile a few years ago. We don't know if he was armed or unarmed then. In this case, we don't know if was going for a weapon, or if the SEALs thought he was going for a weapon. One thing for sure, the SEALs were in a hostile environment, in a firefight. I'm not surprised if they shot him with an abundance of caution.

Or maybe the capture part of "kill or capture" was a fantasy all along.

I don't see why they would want to kill him instead of possible capture, as you there is a high chance of execution anyways. No, I think they'd want him alive if they could, but they were okay with killing him if it became a problem.

 

[Fedorov]

I know, that's why I quoted that one sentence.

I was responding to that idea, not the whole post.

I think thats not the idea REZ wanted to transmit. I think you took it out of context and gave it a free interpretation.

Now, about your point:

"Sure it's healthy to question authority and the media but it gets to a point where you need to sit back and realize that not everything is or has to be a conspiracy."

It only gets to that point, if you only question authority and the media, but swallow reports of random people as divine word without questioning them too.

The correct sentence would be "Is healthy to question everything"

 

[PUTZ]

And common sense takes a vacation.

 

[Colt .45 killer]

really? who got banned?

 

[The Masta]

really? who got banned?

Common sense, obviously.

 

[Peter.Steele]

I have my differences with some of his politics, but I give Obama props for stepping up to the plate on this one.

This. I disagree with him on almost every single important issue, but I really do respect that he nutted up and acted like the CINC on this one. And for once, I am posting with absolutely zero sarcasm.

... what's happening in Lybia is a whole another thing. "We are defending the human rights". Yeah, right...

Yep, this also.

I gotta say, though, it's funny how all the Europeans are in favor of knocking off this particular Arab dictator who's killing his own people ... I think maybe it has something to do with how Iraqi refugees weren't quite so likely to show up uninvited as the Libyan ones would be ... Also, it's interesting to note who the major consumers of Libyan oil are.

In all seriousness, the latest out is OBL was unarmed when they shot him. ... One thing for sure, the SEALs were in a hostile environment, in a firefight. I'm not surprised if they shot him with an abundance of caution.

Or maybe the capture part of "kill or capture" was a fantasy all along.

Seriously, what would be the point of capture, aside from propaganda value? There was never an intent to capture him. Nor should there have been.

really? who got banned?

Common sense, according to Putz.

 

[REZ]

Thanks Fed. That's certainly not what I meant by that statement. I suggest Reise read it again.


There's no conspiracy about it. Pakistan had no idea we were going to conduct that mission well inside their borders. Here are some statements made by the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism John Brennan -

[REPORTER: And I understand that there was a moment of real tension, one with the helicopter, but then also when the Navy SEALs were leaving and the Pakistani government started scrambling their jets, and there was a concern that they were coming to where the U.S. troops were, where the Navy SEALs were. Was there an actual concern that the Pakistanis -- since they were not apparently informed about this military operation, was there an actual concern that they might actually take military action against the Navy SEALs?

MR. BRENNAN: We didn

 

[Reise]

Thanks Fed. That's certainly not what I meant by that statement. I suggest Reise read it again.

*facepalm*

Look, I was using that statement to help make my own. I wasn't challenging anyone's opinions or agreeing/disagreeing with anything else written. That's why I quoted it separately.

I think thats not the idea REZ wanted to transmit. I think you took it out of context and gave it a free interpretation.

That's exactly what I did. REZ said something that I felt highlighted the situation, so I built on it in my own way because I feel people DO think too deeply about these things. I'm not sure how it could have been taken otherwise.

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

I don't see why they would want to kill him instead of possible capture, as you there is a high chance of execution anyways. No, I think they'd want him alive if they could, but they were okay with killing him if it became a problem.

Because trials are expensive and could last years. It's easier just to take his life. If he was kept alive, we (the public) would be focusing more on his trial than the actual winning of the war itself.

 

[Bluehawk]

And what would victory look like exactly?

 

[Chadwiick]

Ok, little of topic - why the hate towards the US? We don't go around insulting your country.
Personally, if you have a problem with the US do something about it instead of being an internet nerd blamming US for the worlds problems.

On Topic - Glad the F***ers dead. Unfortunately it ain't over yet. I SHALL CELEBRATE WHEN WE WIN!
(With the joyess help of NATO of course. )

 

[Peter.Steele]