Ordinary People,Who By A Twist Of Fate..Become

[Thetoad]

Great military leaders...
The institutions like Sandhurst,ST.Cyr,West Point,,have long been know for filling the breeches of military leadership during war.Some people without a sniff of such schools have excelled in The Art Of War.

One of my favorites was Nathan Bedford Forrest.He enlisted in the C.V.A.,during the American Civil War,as a private,,,and at it's end,he was a Lt.General.He had a most distinguished cavalry career.He was originally a land speculator,slave trader,,and finally after the war,,,,the first Imperial Wizard of the KKK.

I am quite sure,,there are many cut from this same cloth.....

Any more ,,,,,?? I am all ears...

 

[The Masta]

the first Imperial Wizard of the KKK.

You're a racist, harry.

 

[User Name]

Although I don't like him, Hitler had an amazing rise to power. From a poor family, virtually penniless, living in homeless shelters before WWI. He ended up becoming the leader of his nation, made it a military powerhouse, and took over most of Europe. He also had one of the greatest falls shortly thereafter, as we all know. :IS2:

 

[Thetoad]

Military capabilities

Military capabilities

Are what ,,,,the point,at hand is all about.
I care not about his civilian life,,,,however his achievements on the field can not be ignored.

Have we ALL become,,,,so politically correct,,as being construed as something I am not.Afraid of even opinions given,,,then misunderstood,,,,and then be labeled a racist.....

That was not my intentions here,,,,everyone,,,,,has skeletons in their closet,,,,Is is so difficult to separate ,,,,style..over substance..

 

[Faneca]

Although I don't like him, Hitler had an amazing rise to power. From a poor family, virtually penniless, living in homeless shelters before WWI. He ended up becoming the leader of his nation, made it a military powerhouse, and took over most of Europe. He also had one of the greatest falls shortly thereafter, as we all know. :IS2:

Don't 4get suffering from some preety severe PTSD caused by gas attacks during the Great War.

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

Although I don't like him, Hitler had an amazing rise to power. From a poor family, virtually penniless, living in homeless shelters before WWI. He ended up becoming the leader of his nation, made it a military powerhouse, and took over most of Europe. He also had one of the greatest falls shortly thereafter, as we all know. :IS2:

I would also agree Hitler is probably the greatest example for this thread. He saw his fair share of combat, agony, and death in the Great War.

 

[Bluehawk]

How about Napoleon Bonaparte, a strange pudgy little thing born of Italian stock on the god forsaken backwater of Corsica, who studied on the mainland and joined the blossoming but untested Artillery branch of the French Army, and after putting down a Royalist revolt, became a brief celebrity and earned himself the command of a force tasked with rooting the Austrians out of Italy, where was he victorious. From there he would fight the combined forces of Europe all over the continent and the near east, and he usually won. He was a beacon of hope to his citizens and the downtrodden abroad, he was a dreaded iconoclast threatening the good order of Europe; he was a living Alexander uniting disparate fiefdoms into mighty nation-states, he was a corrupted hypocrite and an enemy to the revolution. He was a statesman and a field marshal, who both knew what it meant to soldier, but also knew when to push his men past their own limits to get the job done. He was a nobody who became the only body anyone was talking about, and none can deny he changed the world in which he lived.

 

[Thetoad]

Absolutely

Absolutely

Herr Hitler,,achieved most of his victories through triumph of the will,,or diplomatically.Anyone who made decisions like forcing Guderian to help in the
Kiev battle,,,or total disregard,for the health of the 6th army,,,,in no way be considered even a mediocre commander.Indeed,the British felt ,he would hasten the wars end,,by his decision making....concerning actual command decisions.

Victiories in the field were done by the likes of Guderian,Von Manstein,Rommel ,and Kesselring.

 

[HeadClot]

I would have to say President Eisenhower - He brought an end to the bloody conflict in Western Europe and was Supreme Commander of Allied forces on the western front. He was also President of the United States during the early Cold War Years.

He was also a strong advocate of peace when he was in office as President of the United States.

 

[Thetoad]

Maybe,,I did not make my point

Maybe,,I did not make my point

Which was,,,,,,ordinary ,,,I stress ORDINARY PEOPLE,,,,,who,,because of extraordinary circumstances,,,achieve great military success.If memory serves,,Dwight David.....was a WEST POINT graduate,,,so,,,,something was expected of him.

Bluehawks,,superb choice,,had a tad of artillery schooling,,,,but what he accomplished,,,is mind boggling ,,,,,all things considered.

Again..I am looking for ORDINARY PEOPLE,,,,with no Major military training,who achieved far more than was expected of them..

On the evil side,,endless stories have been written about the Einsatzgruppen,Aras Kommando,Omakaitse,,,,I could go on & on..about ordinary men,,truly doing heinous things,,simply because they were put in unusual circumstances.

I was just looking,,again,,for people not formally trained,,,,and then..happened to excel on the battlefield.

 

[Alexander Ostmann]

asdf

Agreed on this one as well. Napoleon is a great example of this.

 

[Thetoad]

During WW11

During WW11

People such as Audie Murphy,Neville Brand,and Eddie Albert,performed heroic actions.Murphy,was a medal of honor winner,Eddie Albert,,for his landing boat behavior @ Tarawa,,was exploited by Hollywood,,to show their gratitude,were posted in movies.Save ,,,Albert,and maybe one Audie film......Their skills,truly were,,on the field of battle.Anyone,who can deal with ZSA ZSA Gabor,,,,deserves consideration.

This is a pretty tough nut to crack.Normals,turned into heroes.

These people at most,,commanded a squad,,possibly a platoon....but when you speak of a soldier,,coming out of nowhere,who eventually commands an army,,without training,,,it is unusual.

 

[NoxNoctum]

You're a racist, harry.

Forrest from what I recall was a good commander, though he was definitely a KKK nutjob.

Not an expert on the civil war at all but I remember reading about him.

Anyways though... what about Genghis Khan? Came from poverty and became the leader of one of the most feared "hordes" in history.

 

[Thetoad]

G.Khan

G.Khan

Was definitely a keeper.
Another one who certainly makes the cut,is Georgy Zhukov.Although he should not be considered a tactically brilliant commander,his successes can not be ignored.He M.O.is closely related to the style of U.S.Grant.

 

[Floyd]

As far as the Civil War goes.....
Though he went attended West Point (how and why he got in should be considered), I'd have to suggest Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson. He came from very modest beginnings.


However, Nathan Bedford Forrest was the real deal.... A self made Lt. General...

 

[Gamburd]

Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)


Andrew Jackson was born into a poor immigrant Frontier family, and when he was a teenager, Jackson served as an American militia courier during the Revolutionary War. He was captured by the British and became a POW.

Like Abraham Lincoln, Jackson became a lawyer; he was appointed commander of the Tennessee militia in 1801 and became the militia's Major General through an election.

Jackson led the troops under his command to victory in the "Red Stick" Creek Indian War (1813-1814), at the Battle of New Orleans (1815) against the British during (or officially, after) the War of 1812, and later during the First Seminole War, Jackson defeated the Seminole Indians and conquered Florida from Spain for the United States.

Andrew Jackson (called "Old Hickory") became the seventh President of the United States from 1829-1837.

 

[Thetoad]

Thanks to All

Thanks to All

So far.I did think it to be an interesting topic.

Some military leaders,,GROW..into the part.through hard won experience.Some,,a very few,appear to have a knack for it.

Nathan Bedford,,had an unbelievable awareness of the topography of the land,,and he used it accordingly.Others may have possessed people skills..and getting the best of their abilities ,to mesh with the missions at hand.

It is not a given....either the very best of military training,,,,or that intangible quality,,that allows them to become..Great Military Leaders..

 

[hockeywarrior]

I would also agree Hitler is probably the greatest example for this thread. He saw his fair share of combat, agony, and death in the Great War.

And we all feel so sorry for him.

 

[Fedorov]

Hitler was a sucky *** military leader, he basically lost the war for sticking his noses and altering the plans of his generals trying to play general himself, and ultimately letting his country get completely crushed.

 

[Thetoad]

Forgive Me..

Forgive Me..

Mel Gibson,,,,but I would like to use one of your vehicles,,,William Wallace...for some considerations here.

Anyone,who executes the High Sheriff,of Lenark as a start of a military career deserves a look see.Although his military work,was relatively short lived,he certainly left his mark....and for the better.

Some leave us,,,well before they should..and some,,linger on....like,,,,the one of a kind..Douglas MacArthur.....