Open Letter To TWI

[Josef Nader]

The game centers your sight after you fire a shot.

So did RO1. And most "realistic" games.

You don't need to actively correct for the gun's kick back for sms's and ar's,

What game are you playing? MGs, SMGs, and ARs kick like mules without heavy mouse intervention.

the game does it like in all arcade shooters.

I haven't seen any expanding crosshairs in RO2...

Even BF3 has more kick back on the guns and the sway is about the same.

So -both- games can't be trying to realistically implement gunplay? Doesn't BF3 have crosshairs? Does BF3 have free aim?

You think BF3 is not arcadish?

Haven't played it, wouldn't know.

The game is just to easy now.

Still not sure what game you've been playing. I seem to die an -awful- lot nowadays...

Everybody can play it just like TW intended it to.

You mean as a pretty realistic depiction of WWII combat? Yeah, I agree.

I don't want to play with kids and twitchers, I stopped playing RO2 for now cause BF3 is just the better twitching game right now.

You just said you don't want to play with kids and twitchers, then you go and say that BF3 is the better game immediately after saying it's an arcadey twitch shooter. lol wut.

In RO you had to support your gun to get th zero sway you get now when you're standing up right after sprinting a mile. You had to pick your position right, now any position will do.

Too bad you can't sprint a mile (more like 100m or so), and there is a pretty fair bit of sway modeled in the game. If you think any position will do, you obviously haven't been playing for very long, or you aren't very good at RO2.

 

[Omar The Insurgent]

The game centers your sight after you fire a shot. You don't need to actively correct for the gun's kick back for sms's and ar's, the game does it like in all arcade shooters. Even BF3 has more kick back on the guns and the sway is about the same. You think BF3 is not arcadish? The game is just to easy now.Everybody can play it just like TW intended it to. I don't want to play with kids and twitchers, I stopped playing RO2 for now cause BF3 is just the better twitching game right now. In RO you had to support your gun to get th zero sway you get now when you're standing up right after sprinting a mile. You had to pick your position right, now any position will do.

This is untrue. Are we even playing the same game?

 

[Machete234]

Turns out I'd forgotten just how clunky aiming, bolting, and movement were back in the day. So you know what? I'm not all that nostalgic.

The core gameplay hasn't changed all that much. You still climb over that low hill on Spartanovka, spot an enemy, and then frantically bring your sights to bear while he does the same. You still dash from cover to cover, hugging the earth over and over again. You still check your corners, imagine how the enemy might see you from their position. You peek around, not over cover. You check the area before you advance.

I agree, I played RO1 a little too late I guess but there were still servers with people playing.
And I liked the game even back then but when I didnt have RO2 to compare it to I thought that some things are too slow or I felt like my ingame body doesnt really do what I want.
A bit like im remote controlling a robot.

In that respect RO2 is better and they didnt dumb the game down to COD BF levels it just plays better than Ro1.

All the RO1 veterans (what a thing to say about yourself) should support the damn game "Give me MY realism or I go play BF3" wtf is that?
Now you dont play this great game and where were you "Ro1 veterans" when I wanted to play Ro1 in the last year?

 

[Golf33]

We were still playing RO1 right up until the RO2 beta came out. The Australian RO1 and DH servers always had a pretty healthy population on the right nights - sometimes more than I've seen in RO2 lately. Hopefully that will have changed with the stat reset, haven't been at home to play this month to check.

For mine, if 'realism' mode got rid of the fantasy weapons and bandaging, and maybe a slight tweak to slow iron sight acquisition time up to a more believable speed, I'd be perfectly happy. Those are really the only gameplay choices that irk me - everything else is bugs that I expect will be fixed in due course.

 

[origination]

I eagerly await the Epilipectic Seizure Aiming mod.

Just because people say they want the old "Realism" mechanics and gameplay that ROOST had to offer, doesn't mean they are saying they want the old over done recoil and weapon accuracy. At least thats the way I see it. I love how you have more control over the weapons in the RO2(maybe they are a little too easy to fire though?).

At any rate, the gameplay of RO2 has strayed way too far from ROOST, I really wish the maps had more of a feel that Darkest Hour brought to the table.

 

[Nagels]

Contrary to what some may think this thread was intended as a suggestion......and yet it goes back to type with mundane posts that actually contribute nothing in the long term.

The simple point is that the game could actually accomodate many more people. And how is this is a bad concept?

I'm neither filling a swiming pool with vinegar nor berating the devs, I'm simply putting forward a suggestion that the game would find favour with more people if it had a throwback to ROOST gameplay type.

 

[Animal_Mother]

Contrary to what some may think this thread was intended as a suggestion......and yet it goes back to type with mundane posts that actually contribute nothing in the long term.

The simple point is that the game could actually accomodate many more people. And how is this is a bad concept?

I'm neither filling a swiming pool with vinegar nor berating the devs, I'm simply putting forward a suggestion that the game would find favour with more people if it had a throwback to ROOST gameplay type.

Right, all we would like to have is an alternate gametype perhaps replacing the hardcore realism type that exists now. And we're even willing to be patient while TW works on more pressing matters until they can take care of ours, right guys?

Though it does seem to me about all they'd have to do for the new mode is change a few variables...but how would I know?

 

[Don Draper]

ALso Tripwire i really like Killing floor....you should have put a Zombie option in the game because i liked killing floor....then we could have had RO1 and Killing floor options that look like RO2....makes perfect sense yeh....i dont see why you didnt see that and implement it?? Bad design.

 

[Animal_Mother]

ALso Tripwire i really like Killing floor....you should have put a Zombie option in the game because i liked killing floor....then we could have had RO1 and Killing floor options that look like RO2....makes perfect sense yeh....i dont see why you didnt see that and implement it?? Bad design.

Don't be a smartass. We're serious.

 

[Don Draper]

Don't be a smartass. We're serious.

Im sorry... but dude it is their game to make as they please end of story.

As long as they keep supporting the software updating it as needed that is all that is required.

Start modding if you want to tweak the game into something you want.

 

[ROII4Me]

The game centers your sight after you fire a shot. You don't need to actively correct for the gun's kick back for sms's and ar's, the game does it like in all arcade shooters. Even BF3 has more kick back on the guns and the sway is about the same. You think BF3 is not arcadish? The game is just to easy now.Everybody can play it just like TW intended it to. I don't want to play with kids and twitchers, I stopped playing RO2 for now cause BF3 is just the better twitching game right now. In RO you had to support your gun to get th zero sway you get now when you're standing up right after sprinting a mile. You had to pick your position right, now any position will do.

We were pitched a game even more realistic than RO and we did not get that at all. Yes, we would LOVE to have a game as realistic as RO1 with the added environmental interaction that RO2 has.

Yes, this is horribly - boringly - arcade-like compared to RO1 when it comes to the aiming. I am bloody tired of people running 200 yards, running into the warehouse I am in, under cover and having them put their laser sight on my forehead the instant they flop to the ground or come to a halt, since their heaving breathing after a sprint doesn't affect their aim, and since having their knee cap shot off doesn't slow them down.

I am bored with being the one who can sprint around and instantly aim and do all that to other people.

Are there 9000 threads like this? Hmmmm. Well perhaps there is a good reason for that lol. I expect to post in every one of them until they come to their senses and tweak the game into what it should have been in the first place - RO2, not some other arcade game for kids named RO2 to fool people into thinking it is a better version of RO1.

 

[CrossTrain]

Your opinion. And you have every right to have it heard. No sweat.

However, I picked up RO1 the day it released. Played it with my then clan of 100 guys. We thought it was going to be the "next big thing". To a man we all disliked it and for all but 3-4 guys, we abandoned it (I tried for a total of 6 hours. Couldn't do it). So, my point is one man's paradise is another man's nightmare. And so it is here. There are clearly a LOT of folks that completely disagree with the original post here.

However, I persoanlly think the original post has some merit in that it could indeed capture more "market share". And in Nagels is correct in stating that they are willing to wait on more high priority issues to be addressed, I think it is an even stronger consideration to be made. I have no idea how difficult it might be, but it seems reasonable.

 

[The_Cook]

yes I second the suggestion to make a "Harder than Hardcore" mode from developers.

 

[Nebfer]

I don't get some people sometimes. People like RO2, but want it like RO1 because they like RO1, but like things in RO2.

Which is it?

And what kind of RO1 gameplay are people talking about? Are they talking about the loopty'do aim sway, 5 min breather before you can run again, Panzer IV death traps made out of wet paper bags, not being able to jump over objects because you already lost your legs in WWI & have wooden sticks that can't bend... which is also why you moved so clunky, Ro1 gameplay taken out of ro2, then I see that as a good thing.

Well their are thoughs who feel that the RO1 load outs was more realistic, however RO1 was hardly realistic in that regard in any case. In RO1 their where maps that could potentially have zero bolt rifles in play on it. This is not the case in RO2 (on full servers one will always see some bolts), overall the RO1 amount was slightly less automatics than RO2 however, partly due to some maps only having three automatic weapons per side. Then they allowed the game to have 64 players but did not change the maps, so most had to go around with a bolt...

Though I would agree at lest on the more realistic servers dropping the assaults and semis to two each would ease some of the complaints...

 

[Josef Nader]

Contrary to what some may think this thread was intended as a suggestion......and yet it goes back to type with mundane posts that actually contribute nothing in the long term.

The simple point is that the game could actually accomodate many more people. And how is this is a bad concept?

I'm neither filling a swiming pool with vinegar nor berating the devs, I'm simply putting forward a suggestion that the game would find favour with more people if it had a throwback to ROOST gameplay type.

A reasonable and well-articulated request, good sir. It will come, I promise, either through the devs or through the mods.

And before anyone says "it has to be official or it won't get people", I point to DH and MN. I'm sure that many would flock to a ROOST2 mod.

As long as I have the option to keep playing what I like, I have no problem with people wanting to play what they like.

 

[Stahlhelmii]

This is untrue. Are we even playing the same game?

Actually, if you put the Mkb42 into single fire mode, it almost INSTANTLY recenters your sight -- even faster than the G41 & SVT. It MAY be untrue with the ppsh and AVT in auto mode.

I know I'm playing the same game you are ...

 

[Colt .45 killer]

Go play an actual arcadish game and get back to me.

All of that **** is simulated realistically in RO2. Just because it's not impossible for all but the best players to hit targets at 100m doesn't mean that it's a goddamn arcade shooter.

There -are- no arcadish elements (except, arguably, bandaging. The wound system needs work). Just because the game speed is faster and the gunplay is more lethal doesn't mean that RO2 has anything to do with ****ing arcade shooters.

No arcadish elements other then bandaging? I'll give you that because I hate the word 'arcadish' its a very broad term that can mean a lot of things. What I will say is that there are many things in HOS that no living human being can possibly do.

IE: Try going FULL sprint, then stopping to a stand still and being able to make a perfectly aimed shot at 100 Meters while your are simultaneously so worn out from running that you are unable to continue running. The speed at which you can go to and from IS is an example of something that emboldens the player to play more recklessly and run around like a headless chicken because it works.

Also another thing, hold breath giving you about 3 seconds of absolutely zero movement. Even if a weapon is rested it should never be giving the user no sway at all.

I have to say that I have been enjoying Hos so far, but Ive found that the few rounds of countdown ive had, or the end of the round when there are no respawns is probably the best time to play. The most teamwork and communication, and the biggest rush of not wanting to die. Where as the rest of the round its just die, 1..2..3..4..5 back in action.


@OP: Yes a ' Double Hardcore' mode would be welcomed. However my shrinking list of gripes with the game are mostly core mechanics that could probably change across all difficulties.

For such a mode I would like to see less information magically provided to the team. For example the recon plane should not be anywhere near as good at spotting people ( it currently spots people inside buildings for heavens sakes!). It should also just report the location of ground units, not the team they are on.

If possible I would also cross my fingers for the return of the good old 'dead when combat innefective' death.

 

[luciferintears]

Agreed, i'm not sure why an actual realism mode wasnt implemented at the start (ignoring the fact that TWI said it would be); instead the current realism mode amounts to relaxed but with no hud and no side arms for some classes. It would have solved so many issues had TWI at least shown the gesture that it hasnt abandoned its former fans.

Realism_Mutator {

allowUnlocks = false;
setWeaponsDefault = true;
setPPShDrum = true;
setPPShSelectiveFire = true;
Bayonett = true;
removeableBayonet = true;
assaultRifles = false;
pistolsForAll = false;
killcam = false;

while (standing == true || bayonet == true || Stamina < 50%)
{
swayMultiplier = 2.0;
}

hud = false;
bandaging = false;
ironSightToFaceSpeed = -1.0;
enemySpottedIcons = false;
minimap = false;
compass = true;
artilleryCooldownMultiplier = 2.0;


}

There TWI, i did your job. You may use this...

 

[Josef Nader]

No arcadish elements other then bandaging? I'll give you that because I hate the word 'arcadish' its a very broad term that can mean a lot of things. What I will say is that there are many things in HOS that no living human being can possibly do.

IE: Try going FULL sprint, then stopping to a stand still and being able to make a perfectly aimed shot at 100 Meters while your are simultaneously so worn out from running that you are unable to continue running. The speed at which you can go to and from IS is an example of something that emboldens the player to play more recklessly and run around like a headless chicken because it works.

First off, I struggle with this argument, which I see all over the place, because I certainly can't do it. That's not to say I haven't tried. Thing is, I -can't- sprint 100m, drop prone, and pop off a perfectly aimed shot in less than a second in game. I've never actually seen it done. Dead serious. I have never seen anyone in game pop off 100+ meter shot after a hard sprint from any stance, much less standing.

What I -have- seen is people popping off 50-100m OH CRAP panic shots as they round the corner into an exposed enemy, and it becomes a test of speed, but that's just CQC fighting for you.

So yeah, I have a hard time buying this argument because it's something that I've never actually seen. While I don't doubt it -can- happen, I'm led to believe it doesn't happen enough to be considered a problem.

Also another thing, hold breath giving you about 3 seconds of absolutely zero movement. Even if a weapon is rested it should never be giving the user no sway at all.

There's a great big thread arguing this, and I'll tell you my opinion and you can decide whether or not I'm a loon.

While yes, shift-zoom turns off the RNG for three seconds, it doesn't actually help anyone as much as people say it does. Your gun is modeled to have a realistic level of acceleration in-game, meaning that when you go to correct your aim, it continues to move after your mouse stops moving. Overcompensating as your avatar has to use his muscles to cancel out the motion of the gun. This is a pretty realistic depiction of what causes sway in real life, in my opinion. You try to correct your aim using your big muscles (arm muscles, torso muscles) and they aren't that good at fine motor control. So, inexperienced shooters tend to overcompensate and swing wide when they try to correct their aiming.

tl;dr, the acceleration modeled into your gun provides player-generated sway that can be overcome with a certain degree of skill. The RNG kicks in when your muscles would realistically start to get tired (i.e. after a few seconds) and forces you to drop your stance, relax for a second, and bring the weapon up again.

The acceleration seems to cost me plenty of missed shots as I try to adjust my aim and end up going wide. Maybe it's just me, or maybe a lot of the RO1 players are so used to wrestling with mouse control that they don't notice something that subtle. Who knows?