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One way demo problem

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
Main problem of Seeker six is that RPG, unlike seeker, is multi-purpose.
Reason for that is that RPG does heavy explosion damage to FPs and does high bonus damage to scrakes on direct hits. Add to that only 9 points weight, so you can get another weapon 6 points weight or lighter.
And it becomes annoying that main and most efficient build is RPG + M79/M203. Other weapons are just not as effective against big Zeds or weights too much to use with RPG.
To solve this, demo need another weapon effective against scrakes. Lighter and somewhat weaker, but still effective. So again I come up with few options.
1) Seeker six. Reduce weight to 7, reduce explosion damage to 80-100, same explosion radius as for current beta, add bonus direct impact damage to scrakes.
2) Simply adding more direct damage to new Kaboomstick. It is not bad as for now, but cannot be used to save teammates from raging scrake as RPG does.
3) Adding knockdown effect to Kaboomstick. For big zeds only, if possible. Still not enough damage, but it will do to save teammates or yourself from scrake.
4) Don't know if it possible, but still. Make Seal Squeal deal direct damage to enemy it's harpoon is attached to, but deal explosion damage to enemies around. Also reducing weight to 7, maybe with reducing explosion damage.
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,544
174
63
Belgium
/!\ I haven't tried the new Seeker Six myself yet, however most feedback seems to point towards some good changes that turned it into a way better weapon /!\

I don't think you should compare the Seeker Six and RPG-7 in any other way besides the fact that they are both T4... They clearly don't have the same purposes. The RPG-7 is a nuking tool, capable of dealing very quickly with big targets. The Seeker Six is more versatile and reliable, and can actually be somewhat used as a PDW weapon at close (but not very close) range.

As for always using the same combo well... You're free to change. I actually very rarely use the same loadout, precisely because change is the spice of any game. I may be slightly less effective at times, but I'm having way more fun. Not every match has to be about being the best or steamrolling on every zeds... Actually, as I mentioned with Nokia in another topic : I find it very annoying that most players expect perks to be effective against every zeds, in every situation. Is it that bad if the scrake actually brings some challenge to the demo? Considering he flattens Fleshpounds like pancakes? I don't think so. And you see : if the RPG-7 is great at dealing with Scrakes... it is piss-poor against trash zeds, unless you score a rocket in the middle of the pack.

Some guns will always be more situational, that just the way it is.

Yet, let's take a look at what you're proposing :

1) Meh... Only agree about the lighter weight, because indeed it shouldn't take up so much space. But why decreasing its overall damage? It should at least blast away trash in a reliable way. Meanwhile, I don't get why it should deal extra damage against scrakes... besides to compete with the RPG-7. And even then : the RPG-7 can decapitate a scrake in one-shot. So it would still be the best option to deal with them. I'd rather have Tripwire stick to their guns (he he) and simply make them polar opposites, as mentioned above.

2)Well... The Kaboomstick is almost the middle-ground between the two universes. More reliable at close range and having two shots rather than a single one, yet dealing more damage. It shouldn't be as effective as the RPG-7 (as it is a T3), but I guess it could be more effective. Even more so considering the other options at that tier aren't as good (well, the seal squeal is alright I suppose). Actually, I think I'd like the extra knockback more than the extra damage. It would allow you to buy some time without making the already effective kaboomstick overpowered (hell, even the modest HX-25 pistol is already one of the most effective T1 of the bunch!)

3)Just like the Seeker Six : I don't really want the Seal Squeal to deal less damage... It could however be lighter, since it's difficult to use it as a primary gun. In that regard though, it could also deal increased impact damage... It's a goddamn harpoon after all !
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
I see your point of view and I respect that. However I can't agree with you. Let me explain why I really want another anti-scrake weapon for demo.
SWAT, for example, is great against trash and mid zeds and good against scrakes. No matter what weapon you choose.
Sharpshooter is great against big zeds, good against sirens and bloats, and somewhat good against any other. That depends on player's skill, not weapons you choose.
Comando is more like all around. It good against any zed type. But for that he is, like, decent against everyone, without strong and weak sides. And again, no matter what weapon you get.
Demo, however, is good against every big zed only with an RPG. He is more weapon dependant than any other class. And I really don't like that. As I demo I prefer to be like "last chance saviour". If crowd get close somewhere I shoot M79 there, if pack of scrakes closing in and team can't handle that I deal with them. And without RPG-7 I can't help my team that much.
And yeah, I don't like to be somewhat "Oh, look, I kill every trash zed and get all the money and XP, so you don't get much, haha"
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,544
174
63
Belgium
Heh... The demo is still great at dealing with FPs even without the RPG-7. Mostly because they take extra damages from explosions. It is only against the Scrakes that the RPG-7 is very important.

And actually the idea about being "weapon-reliant" does apply to many other perks. The zerk needs to be swift and effective to deal with husks, sirens and bloats as they can dish out plenty of damage at close range, regardless of parries.

The sharp is either great at dealing with trash or great at dealing with biggies. Rarely with both (unless he has multiple guns in his loadout). I wouldn't trust the Railgun or M99 to deal with trash. Meanwhile, even an upgraded M14 or Centerfire takes multiple carefully landed shots to dispatch Scrakes and Fleshpounds. It's way harder than with the highly-damaging, single-shot weapons.

The firebug may also struggle. He's not very good at dealing with very strong zeds, except maybe with the helios (which I'll admit : melt everything like butter, but it's a T5 and still only one gun like the RPG-7 for the demo). Hell, if you don't have any bullet-based weapon, you're screwed against husks. Even if, again, I'll admit that not that many firebugs keep the caulk'n'burn or flamethrower very long.

And similarly, the SWAT and Commando are good at dealing with everything... It doesn't mean they can't struggle against tougher opponents. The Commando at least has the grenades to dispatch Fleshpounds. But the SWAT? He better run.

And your last point is probably the least convincing, since the ones stealing the dosh from everyone is more often than not the demo himself... He can kill so many zeds quickly and in one-go, it's ridiculous.

(Plus don't forget that you get a share of the XP and dosh as long as you hurt the zed, so it's not even that big of a deal)
 

Streij

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 15, 2020
12
4
3
Wait... you don't use 2 weapons loadout? Really? I always get 2 guns, except for zerker.
And I disagree with everything you just said.

SFX is excelent weapon against any big zed. Exception is only of SS isn't good enough to land 4-5 headshots with 10 bullet mag. And besides, SS got cryo grenades, which give you best chance to kill 2 scrakes, if you fast enough. And railgun can be accompanied with winchester, which is also great against trash zeds (guaranteed one-shot on every clot and headshots on gorefasts with ANY damage upgrade). M99 can only be used with revolver, so kinda it is weaker against trash, but still pretty useful.

Firebug do good against husks. Just use ground fire. Somehow ground fire deal full damage to husks. With burning damage talent you still have flare gun.

SWAT run from big zeds? Really? Cmon. SWAT got flashbangs. They stun, you know. So it is easy to kill scrakes with weapon good enough. Flashpound are dangerous for him, but not any other.

And yes, you do get money for damaging zeds. But not whole sum. And again, while you damage 1-2 enemy, demo can kill whole pack before you damage some of them. And then demo will ignore FP completely, because he only use his M32 on trash, and other don't got enough money yet to get better weapons. It is possible, but that is terryble teamplay.
 

Aleflippy

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 18, 2012
2,544
174
63
Belgium
...You kinda go my way there actually.

I do use two weapons loadout. By mid-game, you should always have a back-up weapon. But then you just contradict yourself : why bother having another demo weapon effective against scrakes if he can just pick up the RPG-7 and another gun? Said other gun can be anything you want.

Yes the Centerfire is a shockingly reliable gun. It's actually my go-to weapon as a sharpshooter. It has everything : a generous mag and RoF, enough bullets to get the job done, quite cheap, powerful for it's tier, and good in nearly every situation. The only annoying thing is it's lenghty reload time if you empty the gun (but you can always interrupt the reload to fire). But having to land 4-5 headshots as you mention is nowhere near reliable. In the heat of battle, that's A LOT. Yes you can use cryo grenade, but that's still 4-5 shots you have to dish out... For a perk meant to deal with threats quickly, that's A LOT.

"Just use ground fire", that's still being overly reliant on a single skill to survive. Just like the demo is being overly reliant on the RPG-7 to deal with Scrakes. Same thing. That's just being hypocrite.

If I'm not mistaken, you need multiple flashbangs to stun big zeds? Except you only got five at max. So that's all fun and game if you got 2 scrakes or fleshpounds. You're gonna have a bad time otherwise. And again with the hypocrisy : "the only zed dangerous for him are fleshpounds" ? Well, it seems the only zed that may be of any threat to a non-RPG demo is the scrake... Same thing.

And you REALLY have to handle your money pretty bad or truly kill NO ZEDS to lack dosh at the end of any wave. I can't recall a time where I was unfairly low on money in KF2 ... unlike the first game. As for demos using their arsenal on trash... Get better teammates pal?