One Reason Why Tiger isn't a Favorite
- Thread starter Graf
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SenorDingDong said:
Hey SenorDingDong,
Wad the Elephant a tank killer or something else?
I know that the damaged model is on many maps. Im hoping that this means that maybe someday we may have a working elephant in the game.
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We can all sit here and say the tiger sucks but I am going to say its more the way its being used. The tiger is a heavy tank, best in defence or support. Its not meant to charge off into battle against the russians. The tiger should really find a nice hull down position and be in a supporting roll against the russian tanks. let the pather and Panzer 4 tanks to the rushing attacks. They have the speed for it and with a tiger supporting them they can draw the russian tanks out and let the tiger finish it off.
Now this is a generalization but I cant count how many times I have seen the tiger on Arad rushing across the river into the north field or on berlin attacking russian infantry near there the end where they spawn. You need to use the tanks strong points and that doesnt include rushing off to battle. It means finding a nice position and playing a supporting role.
Like on Arad there are two tigers. If they both drove up to the wall in the spawn and sat in a hull down position there while the panthers and panzer 4 rushed the germans. Two tigers could take out any tank the russians have at any range in this game. If the two worked together they might even be able to destroy the russian tanks before they can see them.
It is hard to use the tiger in this game because the maps are max 900m (I think Ramm or wilson said that) while in WW2 the tiger would have been engaging targets at 1000m while the russians had to be at 500m. This game eliminates that advantage. You just need to play smart in the tiger and use it the way it should be used. Let the fast tanks so the rushing, them move you tiger up to another supporting live and the rest of your tanks advance.
Now this is a generalization but I cant count how many times I have seen the tiger on Arad rushing across the river into the north field or on berlin attacking russian infantry near there the end where they spawn. You need to use the tanks strong points and that doesnt include rushing off to battle. It means finding a nice position and playing a supporting role.
Like on Arad there are two tigers. If they both drove up to the wall in the spawn and sat in a hull down position there while the panthers and panzer 4 rushed the germans. Two tigers could take out any tank the russians have at any range in this game. If the two worked together they might even be able to destroy the russian tanks before they can see them.
It is hard to use the tiger in this game because the maps are max 900m (I think Ramm or wilson said that) while in WW2 the tiger would have been engaging targets at 1000m while the russians had to be at 500m. This game eliminates that advantage. You just need to play smart in the tiger and use it the way it should be used. Let the fast tanks so the rushing, them move you tiger up to another supporting live and the rest of your tanks advance.
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It still sucks. It's not that much the armor or the turret traverse speed, but the gun. T-34 is better than it on all areas - speed, damage, armor, turret traverse. Very rarely do I see a T-34 round bounce off a Tiger, yet most of the time the Tiger shells are bouncing off the T-34.
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I second this...SenorDingDong said:
This is just wrong, new players are forgetting/ignoring/unaware of what angling is all about and don't know where to aim at enemy tanks...I often feel like a match against an IS-2 because I hang back at a safe distance where my armor has some effectiveness and I can angle just right. If you just learn angling correctly you can easily bounce shell after shell off of your Tiger whether it be from an IS-2 (yes, IS-2) or a T-34. Now in my opinion there are possibly some kinks in the calculations the game like they said they will look at it but for now you have to realize you can't just hop into a tank like any generic game and shoot wildly without considering how you are positioned. You have to learn about range, ballistics, armor etc and get some experience under your belt before you are going to take on people who can angle perfectly and have had many kills.MkH^ said:
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malice said:
I disagree on this point. The Tiger never acted as a defence weapon and no, it didnt depends on how you use it (except hull down position...but thats a hint for any tank).
The Tiger was build as mainbattletank to counter the T34 and fight them. Its a Tank for open Fields heavily Armored (at the time he saw Battle).
In RO, the Tiger isnt even as good as the PzIV and thats simply wrong.
Even the russian AT Rifle can kill a Tiger with 3-5 shots...there is definitely something wrong with this tank. I readed a battlereport of a Tiger commander who took more than 100(!) AT Rifle hits (and some 57mm and 76,2mm AT gun hits) and still made it back home alive without help.
One Hit from a T34 can kill you at any distance, at least it makes your Tiger "red" and thats simply a joke.
Ok, the Tiger wasnt the invulnerable Beast the myth want to tell us but he was a hard nut. If it would matter how you use it, you would have a hard time to kill a Tiger with a good crew hull down. And its not only the Armor which is wrong.
The 88 gun of the Tiger should destroy any T34 with one shot at 500m for sure...like a knife cuts butter...but in RO you need at least 2-3 shots or more.
In fact, if i have the choice in RO, i rather choose a PzIV than a Tiger...PzIV is faster, better turret traverse speed and nearly same Armor and gun velocity...and thats not correct.
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Brandl said:
The Tiger I was primarily used as a defensive weapon on the Western Front. In fact, the Allies had an extremely difficult time breaking out from their beach-head in Normandy because of the Bocage country and the fact that Tigers were dug into defensive positions all over the place.
Only when several hundred bombers bombed an extremely small section of the front (basically destroying everything there) were the Allies finally able to break through the lines and surround the rest of the Germans. This began the massive push into France which later led to the liberation of Paris and finally Antwerp.
The real problem as I see it is twofold:
1. The communities expectations on the Tiger's performance is based almost exclusively on annecdotes concerning Western Front operations where the primary opponent of the Tiger was the Sherman M4A3. Since the Sherman was ridiculously outclassed by the Tiger (not surprisingly since it was actually designed as an infantry support tank), the Tiger's reputation as an unstoppable beast has flourished here in the United States.
2. To be honest, there are WAAAY too many IS-2s in this game. I think most of the tank maps gives the Russians IS-2s, which is way off base IMHO. At the very least, they need to throttle the "uber" tanks on each map, so that they eventually run out. For example, IMHO it is a complete immersion killer that the Russians get 2 IS-2s on Konigsplatz. If you kill them, more of them simply arrive in the next minute or so. It's ridiculous.
The fix for this issue is to have more maps set in the 1942-1943 timeframe, where the IS-2 AND the T34/85 were not available to the Russians. THIS would give us a couple of maps where the Tiger would have the run of the battlefield, which is what I think people are looking for. There is an enormous gap in the Tank maps. I believe we have one map that's set in 1941 or early 1942 (Bosanova or whatever it was called), and the rest are set in late 44 (T34/85 wasn't in units until March of that year).
In addition, the Germans (and the Russians) would benefit from the introduction of some more Tank Destroyers (like the Stug). These things had completely ridiculous frontal armor and guns designed specifically with killing other tanks in mind.
So I still don't think the Tiger is mismodelled. It's simply being used on maps where it was already outclassed by the enemy tanks that were available.
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Are you sure your talking about the Tiger, because from what your describing it sounds a hell of alot like a panther. The Tiger was put into design before the T-34 was seen on the battlefield and the Tiger is pretty much immune to ptrd rounds.Brandl said:
As for the T-34 being able to damage a Tiger, well so far the only times the Tiger comes up against the T-34 it's the 85 version which has a cannon that was implimented specifically to give them a better chance against the Panther and Tigers.
Yeah, these are tanks, but you can't just wander around out in the open and expect to be invincible. You need to keep your hull down and angled or otherwise you are toast.
I've seen the Tiger's 88 do alot of damage, ie penetrate, but it's just that the gunner didn't hit anything vital, ie missed the engine and the ammo stores. At which time the other tanks faster reload allowed them to get in the 2nd shot first and finished it off.
Rameusb5 said:
I'll agree with you on the Tiger have more of a rep about it engaging the Sherman since I'm of the same opinion and have said as such in other threads.
As for Konigsplatz, you should actually play as the allies some time because it's 1 IS-2 and 1 T-34/85.
A 42/43 would be interesting...if painful for the Russians. Short of satchel charges I don't really see how the allies could take a Tiger out. Well, there's arty. It's interesting to note how there are so many complaints about how weak the Tiger is, yet when it comes to the early maps no one says anything about the KV-1 being weak...when in fact when it was first introduced the thing was nigh invulnerable.
And yeah, it seems to me that what alot of people want here is to just play as the blitzing Germans slaughtering the Russians by the tens of thousands and wracking up a huge kill score in the process. Which to me is the completely wrong mentality.
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ShadowbaneX said:
Thanks for the correction. Still, I think my point still applies. Each side usually has one "uber" tank on a map. The # of those tanks should be extremely limited (as they were in the MOD).
Personally, I feel that on the combined arms maps, all the tanks should eventually run out anyway.
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Have to agree with Brandl. The ro's Tiger is a bad joke which makes the situation even worse with the infamous "2 hits fit all" type of system. That
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From another thread about reload time.
The 88mm KwK 36 used a semi-automatic loading system which ejected the spent shells, allowing it to be reloaded by operating a single handle and inserting a new shell. The result was a 15-20 round a minute rate of fire. Of course conditions vary in a tank. If possible, reloading while stationary should be the quickest, around 4-6 seconds. On the move it should take longer, around 8-10 seconds.
The 88mm KwK 36 used a semi-automatic loading system which ejected the spent shells, allowing it to be reloaded by operating a single handle and inserting a new shell. The result was a 15-20 round a minute rate of fire. Of course conditions vary in a tank. If possible, reloading while stationary should be the quickest, around 4-6 seconds. On the move it should take longer, around 8-10 seconds.
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That is something I agree on, most books I read about tankers in was that the loader would almost often not have a new shell ready in his lap so that he could reload as quickly as possible. Now I am not sure if every loader did this or the loader had to manually take the shell out him self. Maybe if this issue is cleared up by someone with more knowledge or experience?Sichartshofen said:
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ok.... i have to say it!!!! then why is it in the game at all.... there is only map right now (Arad) that is even medium range.... you win the game by capturing objectives.... which mean tank battles end up being--unfortunately-- at close to point-blank range... you can only use it at "longer " range if you are lucky enough to get one by yourself... i havent found one driver willing to wait more than 10 or 20 secs before charging for an objective..... and if you stay back most of the game and pick off tanks at "long" range, you dont win the game.... and you get accused of camping.... if someone whose whole knowledge about ww 2 came from RO, they would think that the best tanks of ww2 were the BT-70 and the SU-76M.... and.... maybe its just me..... but i've found that i can knock-out any tank on the Arad map at long range with one shot with a Tiger.... but it always takes 2 shots to knock-out an SU-76 with a Tiger at close range....Sclass12 said:
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Actually it takes 2 shots from a tiger to knock-out an armoured car as wellprinz eugen said:
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not at long range on the Arad map.... i have great fun "duck hunting" at moving apcs... (which reminds me of 'full metal-jacket" .... how can you kill innocent women and children.... you just "lead" them less) if you manage to hit one of these "ducks" they go "boom"....vonRas said:Actually it takes 2 shots from a tiger to knock-out an armoured car as well
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