# of Autos and Semi Autos

[Apos]

people clearly would rather use the semi's and smg's. that is what they are picking. i don't see twi taking them away from us when they are the weapons of choise.

The problem is that SMGs are so accurate that assaults don't need to attack objectives and engage enemy at close range. I noticed that most of smg players camp and keep shooting at objective. It's quite sad when you see bolt players trying to get into flag zone and capture it when MkB/MP-40/PPsH guys keep sniping from big distance.

In RO:O you needed to attack objectives, cooperate with other players (smoke) to get into cap zone, clear area and secure it. There you could notice tactical element of warfare.
In RO2 you don't need to do that, you can stay as lone wolf entire round and don't care about your team.

 

[Vladimir Vladievich Vlad]

Here's situation, 40 slot server, grain elevator map.

Per team we have available 14 SMG/Semi-auto/MG slots and 6 rifles only, that gives us 70% automatic weapons, 30% bolts.

hehe, you were faster then me! I wanted to post similar ScreenShot! But on my screen shot, only i was the Bolt one in my team, all others were semi or auto!.

 

[MtTriglav]

Stalingrad movie - Storming the Factory - YouTube

Check this odd thing here.

All Kar98s and MP40's. The MP40 does not snipe off the heavy MG gunner, strangely enough. The assaulters have no MKB's. No G41's there either. Noone rushes inside the building hipfiring a MG34, wasting everyone on the run.

What were the film makers thinking!!!

 

[Proud_God]

Here's situation, 40 slot server, grain elevator map.

Per team we have available 14 SMG/Semi-auto/MG slots and 6 rifles only, that gives us 70% automatic weapons, 30% bolts.

As was stated before, the issue seems to be there are too many squads, hence too many squad leaders, hence too many (semi)-automatics.

 

[Crazyeyes24]

people clearly would rather use the semi's and smg's. that is what they are picking. i don't see twi taking them away from us when they are the weapons of choise.

On the small maps we have, no one in their right mind would prefer a bolt over an auto of some kind. I bet you almost everyone who fought in stalingrad would have loved to have a PPSh or MkB... too bad they weren't being passed out like hot cakes...

 

[AntoxaGray]

Problem that people choose bolt action guys only when there are no automatic weapons aviable, and even on full server it feels like you killed only by SMG or semi-auto rifle or mg.

So yeah they should be reduced.

 

[Nebfer]

Based on 64 playercount:
3 assaults 3 autos
x riflemen
3 elite riflemen 3 semis
4 machine gunners 7 autos
4 squad leaders 13 autos / 7 semis
1 Commander 14 autos / 8 semis
3 engineers 17 autos

On a full 32 player team, there are 17 automatic weapons.
That is over half of the team.
In Ostfront, like 70% of the team was bolt.

When the game is full, a mere 38% of players are using a bolt action.

In RO 1 it was possible to have the entire team use autos on some of the maps, at lest before the servers where allowed to have 64 players

Historically the platoons (which had four squads) would of had around 20& of its members with automatics, though Semi auto issue is a bit unknown to me (I know the Germans issued small number of G41s as early as June 1941, the Russians potentially had one in each squad if not up to half could have them, SMG counts in a rifle platoon in fact where a bit lower than their German counterparts in fact). Though one thing to notes is the rifle to automatic ratios will change due to the loss's sustained in the rifle group, their not going to drop a SMG or a MG from a squad because a few riflemen died.

Though engineer teams should be like a rifle team, a single engineer squad leader with SMG with 2 engineer riflemen. So if they made the load out like so...

1x Platoon commander (SMG)
4x Squad leaders (SMG)
4x MG gunners (MG)
3x Elite riflemen (semi)
2x Assaults (SMGs)
1x Elite assault ("Assault rifle")
1x Engineer squad leader (SMG)
2x Engineers (Rifles)
2x AT Riflemen
1 or 2x sniper

So thats up to 16 automatic weapons though the Engineers and AT guys do not show up on every map, so 15 automatics to 17 "rifles" is a good ratio no? and in line with most RO 1 maps.

Heres what the RO 1 maps had, the maps where made for 32 players not 64.

Baksan Valley
Squad leader =1 (or SL)
MG =1
Semi =2
Assault = 2

6x Automatic weapons out of 16

Basovka
SL =1
MG =1
Semi =2
Assault =4 (Russian =3)
Sniper =1

7 or 8 automatics out of 16 (Sans Snipers)

Danzig
SL =1
MG =1
Sniper =1
Semi =2
Assault =4

8 out of 16

Koningsburg platz
SL =1
MG =1 (Russian =2)
Assault =4
Semi =2
Sniper =1
Eng =1 (Russian =2)
PAK =2 (zero on russian)
Tank Crew =2 (Russian =5)
Tank leader =1

12 out of 16

Lyes Krovy
SL =1
Assault =4 (Russian =11 +1 sniper)
Semi =2
MG =2

9 or 16 out of 16

Kaukasus
SL =1
Semi =1
Assault =1
MG =1

4 out of 16

Hedgehog
SL =1
MG =1
Semi =2
Assault =4
PAK =2 (Russian PAKs do not have SMGs though)
Sniper =1
Tank Crew =2 (Russian =1)
Tank Leader =1

9 or 11 out of 16

Fallen Heros
SL =1
MG =2 (Russian =1)
Semi =1 (Russian =2)
Assault =4
Eng =1
PAK =2 (both sides have PTRDs, no SMGs)
Tank Crew =3 (Russian =2)
Tank Leader =1

10 out of 16

Stalingrad Kessel
SL = 1
MG = 2 (Russian =1)
Semi = 2
Assault = 4 (Russian +2 Eng)
Sniper = 1

9 or 10 out of 16

Krasnyi oktobr
SL =1
MG =1
Semi =1 (Russian =2)
Assault =3
Sniper =1

6 or 7 out of 16

Odessa
SL =1
MG =1
Semi =2
Assault =2
Sniper =1

6 out of 16

Rakowice
SL =1
MG =1
Semi =3
Assault =1
PAK =2
Eng =1 (Russian =2)
Sniper =1
Tank Crew =4
Tank Leader =1

9 or 10 out of 16

 

[GrimReality]

this clearly shows why it is the way it is.
people do not want to use the rifles.
i like the rifle on tight maps like apartments, because the bayonet is more effective at times than a smg. it's backwards from how it should be though.

If I could select a bolt action rifle in every class, then I would.

 

[MtTriglav]

Personally I prefer a bolt. But on average I get about 10 kills and get killed about 8 times. The kill ratings of 30 and above seem reserved for the auto guys. So obviously everyone chooses them. Why the game should severely restrict.

I'd say one LMG and one (max two) SMG/semiauto per each 10 man squad. And LMG only for support role not running and hipfiring.

 

[DAT]

nebfer what your long post illustrated was that maps that were MOUT or urban assualt, there were large %'s of auto's. For the earlier war maps and the more open maps less autos. Historically the TO&E of a Soviet ENG Company was mostly bolts but that was supplemented or modified as the war progressed and/or conditions dictated more auto's.

 

[Fidelius]

Either bolt action or SMGs, but the amount of semiauto rifles is overwhelming.

 

[MarioBava]

In RO:O you needed to attack objectives, cooperate with other players (smoke) to get into cap zone, clear area and secure it. There you could notice tactical element of warfare.
In RO2 you don't need to do that, you can stay as lone wolf entire round and don't care about your team.

This makes no sense. Why did you "need" to do those things in RO:Ost? The answer is, obviously "to win rounds."

To the same end (winning rounds), in RO2 it's the same, period. It might be faster paced, it might have somewhat more auto and semi-auto weapons in the mix, but to win rounds, you have to do all those things you mentioned "needing" to do in RO:O. It's no different. And on the flip side nothing --that's nothing at all-- prevented lone-wolf behavior in RO:Ost, either. In RO:Ost you could "stay as lone wolf entire round and don't care about your team."

 

[DAT]

what I get out of this thread is that Auto and Semi are not fair and that more bolts are needed. Fact is at Stalingrad Autos were in widespread use and whole elements on both sides were armed with only auto's. I do not see any problem on any map with unfair balance of a certain type of weapon. Weapons aside it is TEAM WORK not the weapon type, # of kills, etc... that win maps. Give me 32 players with Bolts and solid teamwork and we will steam roll an opposite team of Mkb's.

I use bolts almost all the time and I actually think it is the best weapon for close combat due to the bayonet being unrealistically able to clear whole rooms while being sprayed with SMG fire. On Apartments I have been accused of hacking numerous times because of bayonet kills exceeding 30.

 

[Holy.Death]

There are two problems.

1. Too many squads. Sometimes I can see 5-6 squad leaders possible on 64 slot server. We don't need them. To prevent smoke problem just increase number smoke grenades to 2 per squad leader and reduce squad leaders to 3 total.

2. Too big squads and the rest too small. I often see one full squad and half of the second squad filled. The rest are squad leaders leading pockets of 1-4 people who picked up special weapon other than bolt action rifles.

It has been already suggested, but why can't we have squads adjustable by the number of slots presents and weapons already taken? Fill up first squad so you can select weapons from another squad and so on.

 

[r5cya]

On the small maps we have, no one in their right mind would prefer a bolt over an auto of some kind. I bet you almost everyone who fought in stalingrad would have loved to have a PPSh or MkB... too bad they weren't being passed out like hot cakes...

you hit the nail on the head! it's not that there are too many smg's and semi's, it's that most people realize bolt guns are ineffective in close-quarters combat, which is most of our current maps.

Problem that people choose bolt action guys only when there are no automatic weapons aviable, and even on full server it feels like you killed only by SMG or semi-auto rifle or mg.

So yeah they should be reduced.

nope. that's proof it's fine now. why do you want to take the weapons of choice away from the players? the game is struggling enough as it is.

 

[r5cya]

I use bolts almost all the time and I actually think it is the best weapon for close combat due to the bayonet being unrealistically able to clear whole rooms while being sprayed with SMG fire. On Apartments I have been accused of hacking numerous times because of bayonet kills exceeding 30.

LOL! i know what you mean. that bayo sure comes in handy in a room full of scared germans! i had about fourty of my kills in apt's the other night by the blade!

 

[Apos]

This makes no sense. Why did you "need" to do those things in RO:Ost? The answer is, obviously "to win rounds."

To the same end (winning rounds), in RO2 it's the same, period. It might be faster paced, it might have somewhat more auto and semi-auto weapons in the mix, but to win rounds, you have to do all those things you mentioned "needing" to do in RO:O. It's no different. And on the flip side nothing --that's nothing at all-- prevented lone-wolf behavior in RO:Ost, either. In RO:Ost you could "stay as lone wolf entire round and don't care about your team."

In RO2 players mostly camp and shoot to get kills, better K/D ratio and level up their weapons. That problem came to RO series from CoD or BF games.
In RO:O all fun was to win a round as a team, not to unclock something for your own character. Can you see difference now?

 

[Cwivey]

In RO:HOS it is fun to win a round as a team. When you get your team pushing the fook out of the enemy, constantly getting objectives it's a bloody amazing game. The level of camping has nothing to do with the game. You may always get some campy team in any game, RO:OST had it's fair share of Outdoorsmen, setting up their campfire no-where near the objective.

Besides, you get more points capturing objectives and killing enemies in objctives, so surley people who want all thoes gooey smexy points would actually rush into the capture zone, guns blazing?

 

[r5cya]

In RO2 players mostly camp and shoot to get kills, better K/D ratio and level up their weapons. That problem came to RO series from CoD or BF games.
In RO:O all fun was to win a round as a team, not to unclock something for your own character. Can you see difference now?

biggest mistake trip made. i don't even mind the bugs compared to this!

 

[Cat_in_da_Hat]

For my ten cents, I think server operators should have more control on this but still keep their server ranking status.

As soon as you take out weapon, your server is unranked and therefore as good as tits on a bull if its a public server.