Not enough incentive to play as a team?

[Rossi]

Having put quite a few hours into the beta and been impressed and frustrated at the same time, I now have a love / hate relationship with RO2. Love in the fact that it's a very atmospheric, entertaining (when things are going well) and addictive game. I find myself coming back for more even though I can easily hate the game too.

I think I've nailed why I can hate the game too. Theres no real sense of teamwork. The squad system is going someway to sort this but I do beleive that some sacrifice of the 'pure time' RO experience should be made in order for team work to flourish.

At the moment, there are too many situations where a squad leader is on his own. The restrictions on spawning on the squad leader is not condusive to gameplay. I understand that the restrictions are to enforce a sense of authenticity but im afraid it falls flat on its face. Due to the fact that players spend quite a bit of their time dead, the restrictions amplify the fact that the ability to actually spawn on your squad leader is a rare occurance.

I hate to say it and I know im going to get flamed for this, but system more akin to Battlefield would work better. Im not suggesting an exact copy, but for gameplay purposes the system needs to be looked at. At the moment because of the lack of a cohesive squad system, everyone is effectively a lone wolf.

Some issues are:

1. Your squad leader is mostly dead or unavailable. There needs to be some incentive to stay alive and rewards for allowing your squad to spawn near you. Also there needs to be more information about where the squad leader/squad mates are. HUD Icons or situational awareness cues for example. I know the Realism fan boys are going grumble at this, but this is a computer game, we need assistance to ascertain the situation a player is in. In real life, we instinctively know. Its not possible in a game looking at a 2D screen with a llimited field of view.

2. Make the squad system customisable by the squad leader. Instead of fixed slots, allow the squad leader to choose what kind of classes he wants.

3. While in a squad, give the squad members more information about what the squad leader wants them to do. The orders system is too ineffective. Theres no obvious way to know what the objective is.

4. Bonuses for squad members while in a squad leaders area of influence. Harder to supress, more accurate aiming (perhaps) and other morale bonuses.

I think we're getting there, but the game as it stands is too confusing. This is just my opinion though and it's probably been covered already

 

[Rrralphster]

Did you miss the extra points for protecting your squadleader???
Did you miss the extra points for defending a capzone???
Did you miss the extra points for capping with multiple persons???
There are all kinds of bonusses for teamplay.

I agree that the interface is a bit lacking, but that is a matter of finetuning.

I managed 1st place in several rounds because my teammates understood how it works.
Not many kills made by myself but still I got 150+ points and won maps.

 

[Rossi]

I've noticed some of it. But only in the rare chance I have found and played with my squad leader.

I don't think the squad leader has enough incentive to BE a squad leader and to act like one.

 

[^Beldin]

Yes, there's very visible lack of teamwork at the moment. I think part of it due to people being new to the game series, or new to the maps - though it doesn't explain the lack of trying.

What I would suggest as solution, or workaround if you think that's a better term... Do you have any real-life friends or good old acquaintances from other games, who might be up for playing RO2? If so, put up a Teamspeak server for yourselves and use that instead of in-game VOIP. And play together as a team with those in your own TS.

I have used this strategy with my friends back in RO:OST very effectively. Being able to give real-time information to friends about what the enemies (and you, of course) are doing makes you all more effective. Sadly, on public servers, this sort of active communication simply doesn't exist if you don't take the initiative.

I have already tried this with one of my friends in RO2 - with clear success. In Apartments map, we were the first and second on the scoreboard, with clear margin. Others on the server weren't really doing anything else but playing deathmatch.

First few weeks of RO:OST were the same as well; no teamplay. However, when people learned the maps and saw the strategies to beat them, they kinda played it the "right way" automatically, even if they weren't really following given orders. I believe it'll get better in RO2 as well, given enough time.


Edit: Ah, and about the spawning to squad leader... This needs a change to the spawn selection system. It just has to remember the last selected spawn, it's so friggin' annoying to select the squad leader again every time you've died. Taking this further, "Auto-Ready" system that remembers the last chosen spawn would be brilliant. It would really save my nerves - and I believe, nerves of many many other players as well.

I just don't bother with selecting the spawn spot anymore, as there's no real benefit for it. It's usually only 20-30 meters longer run back to the area anyway. Especially, when squad leaders aren't usually doing anything reasonable, such as trying to defend or capture an objective, either. They're playing deathmatch, just like most of the others.

 

[babokitty]

Welcome to internet gaming. Another reason why realism arguments don't hold any water.

 

[Rossi]

Welcome to internet gaming. Another reason why realism arguments don't hold any water.

Im all for authenticity, realism doesn't really work for shooters imo.

But anyway, yes I hear the Teamspeak argument, but unfortunately a lot of my friends are on the fence about this game and one is waiting to see if it improves for this EXACT reason.

It would be nice to play with randoms and still get a good squad feel.

 

[The Beast (nl)]

Yesterday i played as tanker. The opponents were a real team.
What or how i did, i couldn`t do anything against them.:IS2:

My wish is also fighting as a team.

 

[the_Monk]

Did you miss the extra points for protecting your squadleader???
Did you miss the extra points for defending a capzone???
Did you miss the extra points for capping with multiple persons???
There are all kinds of bonusses for teamplay.

I agree that the interface is a bit lacking, but that is a matter of finetuning.

I managed 1st place in several rounds because my teammates understood how it works.
Not many kills made by myself but still I got 150+ points and won maps.

^^^^ this and play on smaller servers ( ie. 32 and less ). More teamplay, more tension because there are lulls in the action sounds which create opportunity to actually use the map's ambient sounds to your advantage etc. etc.

 

[^Beldin]

But anyway, yes I hear the Teamspeak argument, but unfortunately a lot of my friends are on the fence about this game and one is waiting to see if it improves for this EXACT reason. It would be nice to play with randoms and still get a good squad feel.

I was bored of the RO:OST initially, as there was that lack of teamwork. When I got my friends into TS and started playing as a "squad" with them, it was the most enjoyable war game experience I've ever had.

There was only 3-5 of us in TS usually, but with active communication, that makes up a good squad already. We could capture objectives on our own, as we knew exactly what the other two, three or four friends were doing at the time. This was on public servers, so basically we were always playing with randoms - and fully enjoying it.

Though, with the squad system introduced in RO2, I'd hope for an option to "leave squad" and stay as a lone wolf, no matter the class (except for squad leaders, ofc). This would kinda allow us to use our own teamspeak freely and work as a "group of lone wolves" without annoying the squad leader by not following his orders.

 

[tarquin]

there's more teamwork in RO2 than team fortress 2 pub servers:s

 

[u-s-e-r]

I think there should be more pointers in the game generally that would encourage proper play and use of the game mechanics.

 

[Rrralphster]

I think there should be more pointers in the game generally that would encourage proper play and use of the game mechanics.

You already get bonuspoints for playing as a team. People just need to learn (and a guide by TWI would be nice because not all the details are known) what will give them those bonuspoints.

Did you mean "hints & tips" with "pointers"?

 

[8SS.Steiner]

If it's one thing I've learned over the years of playing FPSs is that Teamwork can never be forced on to people. They have to discover it and use it on their own.

That and the current new people to the genre use the "My fun is more important then your fun" concept. which breaks what teamwork you could get out of them down more.

 

[Drunkenmaster]

I'd like to steal some ideas from BFBC2. Spawning on your squadleader should award him with a point. This will give an incentive to play as a squadleader and stay a bit back and enable your people to respawn.

Giving an order to your squad should pop up on their screen regardless. This is the military, you can't just 'deny' orders as you feel like. Giving an order to go somewhere/attack something will place an invisible 'zone' around the center of it (Like an area of 25 meters around the order marker)

Any killing/capturing inside the zone should award extra points.

Give an incentive to stick with your squad, and play as a team.

 

[u-s-e-r]

You already get bonuspoints for playing as a team. People just need to learn (and a guide by TWI would be nice because not all the details are known) what will give them those bonuspoints.

Did you mean "hints & tips" with "pointers"?

Yeah, stuff that would show you gaining bonuses etc Things that would point out what you are doing right and what you should be doing and where to point your attention to.

 

[Rrralphster]

Some people might have been playing on hardcore servers though. You don't get any kill or score messages on those servers.
For new players this can be very confusing.
You also don't get to see a mini-map, which also shows the capzones in TE.

Try relaxed realism servers first (this suggestion is aimed at new players. I don't mean relaxed realism servers are just for new players though).
That way you get a feel how scoring etc works.

 

[Rossi]

There are very few relaxed realism servers though.

 

[u-s-e-r]

Some people might have been playing on hardcore servers though. You don't get any kill or score messages on those servers.
For new players this can be very confusing.
You also don't get to see a mini-map, which also shows the capzones in TE.

Try relaxed realism servers first (this suggestion is aimed at new players. I don't mean relaxed realism servers are just for new players though).
That way you get a feel how scoring etc works.

Theres still no change regarding those things

And anyway how could newbs even know that they should be playing relaxed if theyre not told so?

 

[Bandu]

I'm new to RO, but I'm a bit of a 'realism head', for instance, much preferring PRmod to BF vanilla.

So perhaps it's because I'm new to RO but I do agree about there being a lack of squadplay. I've played 30 hours according to Steam but haven't yet been with my squad as a squad - if you know what I mean.

I think an addition of "Attack" and "Defend" markers, to accompany the "Move Here" marker would help (if they aren't included already - I haven't seen any yet).

Infact a SL specific commrose that would allow the SL to designate targets to suppress and even mark places on the map for his squad to position themselves would be great. Eg. the SL could order "Bob" to get on top of the roof overlooking a particular entrance and "Bill" to cover them from a window etc. etc.

 

[Wodin]

Find a good server...get to know some team working players...in the end the servers will be populated only by those who play as a team because they will be the ones who weren't waiting for BF3 etc...as I said before the game play really relies on the players....going along the lines of BF totally, would be suicide for RO2...

As a rifleman I'm not running around with the squad leader as often becuse I need some distance to be useful...once I know the obj isn't overlooked by the enemy I will then move to it...it's the assualt troops who really need to work with a squad leader and as a team as they should be the ones room clearing and obj taking. Saying that the last round I played I had killed 5 enemy and ended up with 76 points...because I was taking them out on obj's...assists...protecting leader...and obj taking...

So it pays to play as a team...if I'd have been just going for the kill and running around anywhere I wouldn't have got half those points.