New weapons retrospect

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Amatsukenzan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 6, 2010
41
40
0
The new weapons... Right off the bat, thank you tripwire for adding new weapons. Awesome, keep doing stuff like that, new maps, weapons, zeds, whatever, all good.

However, just because it's new, doesn't mean it couldn't use some spiffing up. So im sorry to compline, but it's only so you guys can make it even more awesome.

So, now that the novelty and newness of the new weapons have worn off... They all suck. I hate to say that but they really do. Only one is passable to anyone who knows about this game, and doesn't just go for 'coolness'. Now, I've played and used all of them alot, and as i said, sorry to complain, but they need some work.

The .44 was barley on par with the HC when it weighed 2, but now it weighs 4 as a single it's worthless.

The m4 is nice, but the bullpup clears trash better, and the ak is far more powerful (and the scar trumps both!), plus it has a much longer reload then even the ak/scar. Uhhggg, unless your lv 4-6.

The combat shotty is a slow reloading, less capacity version of the normal shotgun. If you want fast fire power, get the aa12. Honestly, it can out dps the new shotty.

The m4203 is a joke, period, with forced grenade reload (and that's slow to boot) as well as the m4 section not having any bonus from demo. I guess if you use it with commando it could work, but 3500?! Firetruck! Besides, it's suppose to be a demo weapon dam it.

The husk cannon could be sexy if the impact damage was fire based, but since it's not you really are better off letting sharps deal with fp/scrate and you clear the trash (combine that with its low ammo count if you try to charge all the time...). Add on the mac-10 ammo buff, plus the crazy cost (4000!? It's not the law/aa12! Still 1199 at gold!!!) and it's already in the grave.

The claymore could be nice if the katana and fireaxe didn't trump it. The katana is just crazy powerful, and people know all kinds of tricks with the axe. If you can pull them off with the claymore, more power to you. But it still weighs f-ing 6 compared to the katanas 3. I just katana everything but fp's, and m79/m32/pipebomb the fp's. If they had just taken the movement restriction off the chainsaw, i think that would have been better then a new weapon. Whatever.

Finally, the mp5m. This weapons fine. They did good here, a better mp7m basically. Reloads still a little long, but oh well. The lack of single fire doesn't feel to bad here because the fire rate/recoils more manageable then mp7m.


Ok, now some fix ideas:

.44; Fix the damn weight so that one weighs 2, duals weigh 4 and when you sell duals, it just make the single weigh 2, blah blah. Fix the weigh glitch, don't just make the gun suck for everyone.

m4; Faster reload. Simple, but right now it sucks for that reason. It should be a bullpup upgrade, the way the scar is a ak upgrade (and bullpup upgrade too, but I digress). Basically, remove the back bolt pull if it had any ammo left (as far as i know that's how it is in real life. That bolt is just a first-shot charging handle if you were starting empty). So make it like 2.5 sec reload, still a little slower then bullpup, but faster then other 2.

Combat shotgun; Either a)more pellets or b)tighter spread then the normal shotty. In the case of more pellets, it really follows the idea of a spray weapon (which it is) with the downside being long recover time. Maybe 1/3 more pellets but a likewise damage decrease (1/3) per pellet to keep balance. More chaos (random headshots) but no real loss in close range accuracy. The latter thought means the red-dot on top has use. That would allow it to be a headshot machine, raping foes at close with deadly accuracy. Trade off is it loses some random headshot chaos at mid range. Something like that.

m4203; A few fix need to be made here. One, make the grenade reload either a) interuptable or b) you push reload to reload it (and it reloads the magazine first). Why? The whole idea of the m4203 is to have a nade launcher and a 'o sh!t' weapon at the same time. But if i shoot a nade at a fp, only to have a few gorefasts sneak up on me, and i can't shoot for 3 seconds because I HAVE TO reload the grenade. That removes the point of the gun over the m79. With either of the above changes, it's still a 'crap, two sirins behind me!' gun, even after you fire your nade. Maybe even add in some reload time decrease to the 203 part, idk. Second, some recoil reduction for the demo when he uses it would be nice. Only on this weapon and only for the rifle part. Simple, but right now I feel like I'm using the scar as a demo! It's only a .223 caliber gun, and the nade laucher should weigh it down, but it's hard to hit anything unless you have great trigger discipline (again, the opposite of the guns purpose). Just a little precision would be nice. That or reduce the fire rate on the thing for demos (its the fire rate which is creating so much recoil all at once. It's like the mp7m vs the mp5m, only thing different there is the fire rate, but the mp5m feels way more accurate).

Husk cannon; Make the impact damage fire. Right now even a full charge is mediocre on lower difficulty's and a joke on higher ones against anything but trash (and the flamethrower still dominates that area better). Now, when i say add more damage, I mean the single target impacted only, not the splash damage. That's fine as it is. Thus what i mean is when i shoot a fp with a full charge shot as a lv6 it does more damage right away (as in the impact) compared to a lv0 doing the same thing. An ammo increase would be nice too, if only becuase 24 fully charged shots is not very much. And maybe a price tag decrease. I mean dam man, it's pricy right now.

Claymore; Well, i guess this weapons fine. Now that we have such a strong melee, i ask that the chainsaws movement speed reduction be removed, or it's weight lowered. The chainsaw is now worthless compared to both katana and claymore (and fireaxe to some degree).

That's it for now, let me know what you think, if you agree/disagree. Feel free to use any of this in future weapon complaints. But seriously, keep it coming tripwire, good job, but don't forget to fix up what you've let out.
 

Quadruplesword

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 17, 2009
194
48
0
United States
I can't give a lot of input since I just played the game for the first time in about a month, but I would like to say that the M4 has become my new go-to gun when I play commando. The reload is a little drawn out, but it's easy to deal with if you're playing with decent players. The recoil did seem a little too strong at first, but I've learned how to compensate for it. Also, is it just me, or does it seem like the M4 has less recoil when aiming down sights?
 

Islidox

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2011
241
29
0
NJ, USA
I definitely agree with your assessment of the new weapons, Amatsukenzan. None of the new weapons seem to have been any sort of upgrade or sidegrade... more like downgrades and in essence, useless. I hope TWI knows this and is working to rebalance the weapons into a more palatable and useable form. Then I'd love TWI forever :3.
 

niel85

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 30, 2011
19
7
0
some nice suggestions here, i have one more addition:
let the husk gun have some alt fire mode for charge shots. right now its very hard to charge it when a scrake comes around the corner. maybe let secondary be pressed for half a second until it fires if instashot is too fast.
 

Freshmeat

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 17, 2010
278
59
0
I don't know about the other new weapons, but I use the M4 over the AK on longer distance maps. It decaps clots and gorefasts in one shot (cmd 6, sui 6 plyr), and I land more headshots with it. I haven't run the numbers, though.
 
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jorgamun

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 16, 2010
237
35
0
United States
I actually think that the claymore is a good addition, but not for berzerkers. The increased range and versatility of its damage options make it a much more potent weapon for, say, a medic who needs to stay away from zeds. As a berserker you need to the speed of the katana/axe combo because that's your priority and you don't have to really worry about getting grabbed.
 

C_Gibby

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 18, 2010
7,220
2,716
0
some nice suggestions here, i have one more addition:
let the husk gun have some alt fire mode for charge shots. right now its very hard to charge it when a scrake comes around the corner. maybe let secondary be pressed for half a second until it fires if instashot is too fast.

Do you know what game balance is?
 
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Rhenna

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 26, 2010
262
139
0
Alone in Penn's woods
The 4-block weight of the single .44 Magnum is a nasty revelation for me. I had been rounding-out my kit with one whenever space and funds permitted, and getting some decent returns on that investment. And, as I mentioned previously, it was a nice weapon to toss to a new player who had nothing but the 9mm. Maybe they should just eliminate dual revolvers entirely, and leave the .44 Magnum as a single-only, 2-block shooter? That would work for me. (It sure beats no one using it at all.)

The M4/M203 is a bit too pricey, on-perk, for my tastes. It has WAY too much recoil, rifle-wise, and comes with too-few grenades. The inability to fire the rifle during the grenade reload can cause things to become interesting, but I'm OK with that. I think...

I'd like to believe that this weapon-system is a "work-in-progress" thing, and I'm hoping it will improve.

I don't play either Berserker or Medic enough to be able to realistically evaluate the Claymore or MP5, but when simply fooling around with the MP5 as a Level 5 Medic, I thought it was fantastic. No problems, there.

I've only just begun to get acquainted with the Husk FL, so I don't have anything to say about it.

As for the previously, and, for some, still currently much-maligned M4? I'm completely OK with this puppy, at least on-perk. Sure, on-perk at Level 6, I wouldn't mind a tiny bit less recoil, (especially in semi-auto), and a small increase in reload speed, but neither is a deal-breaker for me thus far. It's there if one wants it, easily omitted if you don't, and, I think, represents the "sidegrade" concept pretty well.

[Off-topic] You know, I've wondered now and again, that if we could go back in time, and substitute a M4/M16 derivative in place of the AK's introduction, if we'd have any controversy over TWI suddenly electing to include an AK-variant into the mix? I'm thinking, "no." [/Off-topic]

The Combat Shotgun most definitely needs something to set it apart from the other shotshell-based weapons, and indeed, it has one: it's high pricetag. How the cost of this piece was arrived at is a real mystery to me.

When I was watching the video last month from TWI that intoduced both the new weapons and KF-IceCave, I was convinced the CS had a tighter shot-pattern than the other shotguns. Sadly, that observation wasn't very accurate.

This piece needs a significant price-reduction, and some sort of tangible benefit(s). (As in, a reason to exist.) Perhaps, either more ammunition and/or a weight decrease. Something. The fact that this is a semi-auto could serve as a plausible reason to dial down the recoil a bit, but that wouldn't provide much of an advantage to choose this over the pump.

To the unwary, I'd say that the CS is right on the cusp of being a weapon that gets someone needlessly injured or killed.
 

͡ °๏Rɐnɐ-Sɐmɐ๏͡°

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 10, 2010
354
150
0
Horzine Biotics Lab
ok, right off the bat, 44 mag sucks. When compared to the HC in almost every way it is inferior; has less ammo, longer reloads, less penetration, and has more expensive ammo. The gun on its own is cheaper but right now that's the only positive, and it isnt much cheaper to be worth getting when you can save a few more pounds to get a better gun overall.

Husk gun i dont have any problems with. does what it is supposed to. Ammo is fine, compare it to the LAW, you have over 20 full shots with it when you are perked. Unlike the flamethrower it gets headshots, unlike the mac10 it has splash damage. nothing wrong with this thing.

the claymore, yeah, doesnt quite match up to the axe particularly because it takes up that 1 precious extra bit of space. though i would be fine with this if it wasnt the first melee weapon that is pulled out. When i get surrounded by clots or whatever when i am clearing out some bugs with whatever ranged weapon i picked up, i quickly hit my melee key and start clicking, this pulls out the claymore which has a slowass attack rate and i quickly become overrun and die.

The M4 really did NOT need to be added, i can snipe things across the map with my AK just fine. or if available the SCAB. Really neither M4 needed to be put in, the whole idea of a sidearm and a main put together sounds like a good idea until you try it, M79+M4=still low level weapons. Sub-par.

The new shotgun is just fine, heres why, think of it more like the hunting shotgun chambering regular shells and has 6 rounds. i give this comparison mainly because you can unload all those shots as fast as you like, where the AA12 has a more defined fire rate. pack that and the hunting shotgun and you will enjoy blasting things away. To use it properly, a bit of compulsive reloading helps.

While we are on the subject of weapons... WHY IN THE HELL IS EVERYTHING WEAPON SLOT 3 NOW? Mind the rage, it's jst really frustrating me.
 

videofreak

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 24, 2011
60
8
0
Maine, USA
The chainsaw is now worthless compared to both katana and claymore (and fireaxe to some degree).
Hey, the chainsaw's still incredibly fun to use (we all love charging into a group of clots with the primary fire at head level, sawing off heads), and the long click-hit delay on the claymore is pretty awkward, so I don't know. I still prefer the chainsaw.

Also
Dare you to find a recent post that was the same as mine.
I'm pretty sure he was asking how he could like your post 100 times (i.e. agreeing with you).
 

Maddoxx

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
935
46
0
Earth
Not using any of the new weapons. No reason!

Maybe only the Husk Cannon and MP5M could be interesting as viable and new upgrades.
 
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Aze

Grizzled Veteran
Mar 19, 2010
1,424
526
113
Husk Cannon and M4+M203 were the only weapons i felt were new, exciting and a little "inspired". Problem with them is that they are both WAY overpriced. 2500 for HC and M4+M203 for 1750 and then they will feel much better. Other balances could be made ofc, but that would be a good start.
Oh yeah: And having the secondary fire on M4+M203 also be a reload button for the nades (rather than having a forced autoreload) would be a great fix too!

M4 and Combat Shotgun, albeit a little dull, actually feel ok as weapons (although the CS is way too expensive, 1500 would be enough). Not all too new, but they have their uses imo. I believe only small tweaks are needed on these (like faster reloads).

Claymore and MP5M are just boring. They have NOTHING interesting with them. One is a longer, more expensive and heavier (thus less viable) Axe, the other is plainly a MP7 2.0.

.44 has some potential, but is broken: Overpriced, gets wrong perk bonuses and is now also way too heavy. The .44 along with the other two pistols (at least their "dualwielded" versions) need some serious sorting out (weight, ammo, prices, maybe even a new perk etc).

Like someone else said: The BD and IJC weapons are more inspired and interesting: The MK23 feels like a REAL in betweener of the 9mm and Handcannon. The Hunting Rifle and M99 felt like they actually belonged to the sharpshooter. The M7A3 was very different from the MP7, not just a pure upgrade. The KSG was a really cool new shotgun with a neat little feature. The only weapon i felt was a little unnecessary is the FAL (especially now when they made it fullauto -.-), but it still feels nice (albeit overpowered)

I've nagged about these things before and its really dull how nothing ever happens. Not speaking of all the bugfixes and text errors (like the missing bonuses and writing mistakes in perk tooltips) that needs to be fixed....

But to be honest, i'd rather they spent energy on KF2 now. KF1 can't handle much more changes now and it feels like the additions they make for the game are more quick "bandaid" stuff. If they really loved the game, they would've polished up the game long time ago...

If someone IS interested in how the game could be polished a little, here ya go with some of my ideas:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=72984
 
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swenor27

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 1, 2011
201
13
0
Poznań, Poland
I dont use new guns above hard

I dont use new guns above hard

The new guns are too weak, and some are too expensive. Highest difficulty I would use them is hard, all above I use old armament. They are fun, but You cant do serious game with it.
 

Blasphemy

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 17, 2011
68
42
0
Unfortunately, I agree completely. I greatly appreciate all the hard work that went into introducing these weapons.