Remember that these tanks in RO2 take about 4 times as much work as the tanks in RO1 did. I suspect much like in RO1, the mod community will take the lead and start hacking out vehicles and TWI will eventually clean them up and have them as stock. Examples are the KV2 and SU152 for example along with some of the german tanks not in the original RO1. Be patient they will come in time.
new tanks?
- Thread starter aceshot
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German players would complain too much if the KV-2 made a appearance in RO2. They'd whine that it's RO2's IS2.
Although, I'm really disappointed that TW is choosing to put the T-70 in the game before a KV. With how tank "battles" are now, the last thing Allies need is a damn tankette over a heavy tank. Not to mention it's going to be this little thing vs this. In which, I won't be surprised if the P3 that Germany is going to get will be the one with the L/60, which was the one that was said to be able to penetrate the T34, frontally.
Well, it's not so bad.
Even though Germans had basically only Pz III/IV, with the odd assault cannon in it (like the already mentioned SiG-33B) versus Russian KV-1/2, T-34 and T-60/70, remember that Panzers were still available in two versions - long and short barreled.
So, like I said, there's enough to chose from on German side... and if that's enough, you could even drop in a Pz II, but not sure if anyone would want to drive that
While I agree that Germans never had tank supremacy on eastern front (or on any front to be honest, with maybe invasion on Poland being the only exception) and that their advantage was in crew training, radio equipment and tactics, I can't agree that IS-2 was produced in FAR greater numbers. Just like ~2300 were produced until the end of the war, which is about as much as the production rates of both Tiger models, and like 3 times less than what Panther was produced. It was the cheap T-34 production that made all the difference (just like Sherman's on the western front).
And now imagine that the turret has a second MG, shooting backwards. And it's manned by an AI aimbot. Would make any game the tank would show up a nightmare for the infantry
Don't think it could penetrate T-34's frontal armour, only maybe when using some fancy HEAT or tungsten-core ammo. Though, I have to agree that a KV-1 would be a better choice for a new Russian tank - since it has the same main gun as T-34, don't think that would be game breaking at all. Adding in KV-2 though, would be a bit too much I think.
A possible German tank
Spoiler!
Contrary to popular belief the Germans never held tank superiority on the eastern front.While the Tiger was a great tank it was never made in enough numbers to effect the war(and wasn't in Stalingrad).And the Panther was again a great tank but by the time they got it into production the Russians was pumping out T-34/85's and IS-2 tanks in far greater numbers.German advantage was in crew training and radio equipment.
On the eastern front the Germans never quite wrestled tank supremacy away from the Red Army.
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That thing will blow 200 Russians to dust.
You may of just crippled yourself as if that was added another German fav we get to control 200kg moving ammo rack.
It was around at the time of Stalingrad prototypes was around since 1940 and it went into full production in the spring of 42.
It would be a blast! a remote control explosive it was wire guided and had about 650m range.(thats a long wire)
They was a lot of fun in company of heroes too
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Knowing TWI they will add Tiger1 which never saw fight in Stalingrad, tho quite close to it, so for me kinda ok to add that...
and the Russians will have IS-2 which neither saw fight there, but kinda ok too for me.
But what worries me, is that ofcourse IS-2 will have lots of bugs, like german commander can penetrate it with pistol and riflemen can destroy it with one melee hit... any bets?
and the Russians will have IS-2 which neither saw fight there, but kinda ok too for me.
But what worries me, is that ofcourse IS-2 will have lots of bugs, like german commander can penetrate it with pistol and riflemen can destroy it with one melee hit... any bets?
You are correct the biggest problem the Germans had was they couldnt concentrate all their tank strength on the eastern front.While they made almost as many Tiger models as the Is2.They had to split their numbers for the western front.While the Russians could amass all their strength against a single foe.
Also the Russians produced over 5000 KV-1's while their 76 mm main gun wasn't near as deadly as a IS-2's.They still filled the heavy tank role well and even after production many survived until the end of the war due to their good survivability.You are right tho it was the sure numbers of the T-34/85 that overwhelmed the Germans while on paper the Panther may have been a better tank than the T-34.The added 85 mm made the t-34 still lethal to the Panther and the sure numbers neglected any advantage the Panther may have had.
Also the German assault guns was used to great effect in a defensive role.Making every mile the Russians pushed the Germans back painful.The assault guns was produced in more numbers due to their ease of manufacture.
Keep in mind that if they add new vehicles it will be for different time periods not just fall of 42. Plus when the SDK is fully released we will have a plethora of maps from different years. I know we will also see the MG42, M44, STG 44, PPSH43, etc... when the modders get to work.
Yes and we'll have Tigers on every map, whether they were available at that time of the war or not, and even though Germany only ever produced about 1500 of them, and they were scattered over all battlefronts.
Edit:
And what will the Allies get to counteract the Tigers? this probably:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Stuart_tank_2.JPG
Which can easily run rings around a Tiger. lol
sarcasm
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German players would complain too much if the KV-2 made a appearance in RO2. They'd whine that it's RO2's IS2.
Don't forget that the 152mm S-41 has a minute long reload time. Would be hilarious to play as one with my tank-crew-buddies though.
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As the game matures it wont be limited to just masses of tigers, there will be maps with no tanks, some maps with tanks, some maps with tigers, no tigers etc.... all depends on the server settings and the map maker. I agree on the ISU; it used 2 piece ammo, was heavy and awkward for the loader ( was originally a naval design), and in a cramped space. But its punch when supported by wingmen tank and supporting infantry was a game winner. As for the KV2, it was in RO1 and was junk; Armor was great but turret was slow, tank was slow, reload was slow thus was preety useless.
Yes, the KV2 was junk in RO, and i am amazed that so many people are hoping it will be in RO2., but if the new armour/health system accurately represents the good armour that the KV2 had, then it could be a force to be reckoned with.
I would prefer it if TWI made any new tanks, i tend to think, rightly or wrongly, that modders seem to favour one side or the other, and build their tanks accordingly.
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and the Germans only had 300 some of the Panzer 4 with the longer gun by the summer offensive. That didn't stop TW did it? But the KV would be a good choice. Give the Panzer 4 something to fear.
@Gimpy: As the game matures I am sure we will see a whole variety of vehicles just like in RO1. All the COD types will probably be long gone in a few more months and when the SDK gets released be prepared for a new content for sure.
I don't think it needed tungsten rounds, but I do remember reading that the Pz III Aus J1 (L/60-equipped model) could only penetrate the T-34 frontally at ranges of <500m, which is relatively close range in tanking terms. That said, this model of panzer would be a menace on the SMALL combined tank/infantry maps we have currently. My gut tells me that TWI will probably add the Pz III Aus J (short-barrelled-ineffective against T-34 front armour) model so the Russians don't get too angry with their DINKY TANK (T-70). I imagine the Pz III Aus J1 will get added later either by TWI or by a modding team...
My 2 cents,
Fafnir_6
P.S. I agree that the KV-1 is an important addition that needs to be made. The KV-2 would be interesting but adding it and preserving game balance could be difficult.
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Yes, sorry, it was possible when aiming at certain points on the T-34's armour (different places, depending on the version) or at favourable angles.
Guess I should have wrote "reliably" in-front of "penetrate".
Anyhow, yeah, they'll most likely add the J version of Pz III. But if they really want to stick to T-70 and make it a bit more fair, they should add one of the 37mm gun equipped Pz III (like, ausf E or F)... not sure if they were still around by then, but Mkb's weren't so it won't hurt anyone
Yes and we'll have Tigers on every map, whether they were available at that time of the war or not, and even though Germany only ever produced about 1500 of them, and they were scattered over all battlefronts.
Edit:
And what will the Allies get to counteract the Tigers? this probably:
[url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Stuart_tank_2.JPG[/URL]
Which can easily run rings around a Tiger. lol
And hopely they make the tiger now correct. I mean only destructable on the side or rear. And the front .....ah you know.
Well according to Panzertruppen by T Jentz
On July 1942 the Divisions that eventually got used in and around Stalingrad had in July 1942 (with 6th Army & 4th Panzer Army)
14th, 16th, 22nd & 24th Panzer Divs, 3rd, 16th, 29th & 60th Mot infantry
Panzer II............... =126
Panzer 38t............. =114 (22nd pz)
Panzer III 50mm L42 =134
Panzer III 50mm L60 =246
Panzer IV 75mm L24 =66
Panzer IV 75mm L43 =67
Command Tanks...... =19
By mid November 1942 the units attached to 6th army and to Army Group B had operational the following tank.
6th Army (14th, 16th & 24th Panzer Divs & 3rd & 60th Mot infantry Divs)
Panzer II............... = 12
Panzer III 50mm L42 = 10
Panzer III 50mm L60 = 93
Panzer III 75mm L24 = 17
Panzer IV 75mm L24 = 7
Panzer IV 75mm L43 = 34
Command Tanks...... = 7
---
Army Group B (which 6th Army was part of) also had a further
(22nd & 27th Panzer, 16th & 29th Mot infantry)
Panzer II............... = 26
Panzer 38t............. = 27
Panzer III 50mm L42 = 5
Panzer III 50mm L60 = 61
Panzer III 75mm L24 = 38
Panzer IV 75mm L24 = 3
Panzer IV 75mm L43 = 44
Command Tanks...... = 3
On July 1942 the Divisions that eventually got used in and around Stalingrad had in July 1942 (with 6th Army & 4th Panzer Army)
14th, 16th, 22nd & 24th Panzer Divs, 3rd, 16th, 29th & 60th Mot infantry
Panzer II............... =126
Panzer 38t............. =114 (22nd pz)
Panzer III 50mm L42 =134
Panzer III 50mm L60 =246
Panzer IV 75mm L24 =66
Panzer IV 75mm L43 =67
Command Tanks...... =19
By mid November 1942 the units attached to 6th army and to Army Group B had operational the following tank.
6th Army (14th, 16th & 24th Panzer Divs & 3rd & 60th Mot infantry Divs)
Panzer II............... = 12
Panzer III 50mm L42 = 10
Panzer III 50mm L60 = 93
Panzer III 75mm L24 = 17
Panzer IV 75mm L24 = 7
Panzer IV 75mm L43 = 34
Command Tanks...... = 7
---
Army Group B (which 6th Army was part of) also had a further
(22nd & 27th Panzer, 16th & 29th Mot infantry)
Panzer II............... = 26
Panzer 38t............. = 27
Panzer III 50mm L42 = 5
Panzer III 50mm L60 = 61
Panzer III 75mm L24 = 38
Panzer IV 75mm L24 = 3
Panzer IV 75mm L43 = 44
Command Tanks...... = 3
So this is just for the Panzer classes right? Not all AVFs? I just don't want to be told that other armoured vehicles, like halftracks and assault guns, weren't there.