New specimen? Why?
- Thread starter Mr. Shoe
- Start date
I believe the mechanics of the game only allow the specimens to follow a path towards an enemy. Hence why they are all so stupid and mindlessly walk towards you. The programming/coding doesn't allow the zeds to do run and gun tactics.
I mean if they did the husk would be very hard to kill if after he fired he sought cover or only fired from a secure covered location. Instead he mindless walks towards you to get pwned.
To add difficulty we need more ranged attacked specimens. Right now we only have 2 zeds who can do distance damage the siren and the husk (the bloat's vomit range is so limited I don't count him) all other zeds MUST melee attack you. Throw in a couple zeds with pistols or shotguns like the bottom level doom enemies that would make things harder.
Some ideas i had while playing KF:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=546382&postcount=31
The great problem is the room camping, its really easy to stay alive in a room, what don't make any sense, why awesome official maps if every body stay in the same f****** room every wave?
Lets change the name of this game to KILLING DOOR...
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=546382&postcount=31
The great problem is the room camping, its really easy to stay alive in a room, what don't make any sense, why awesome official maps if every body stay in the same f****** room every wave?
Lets change the name of this game to KILLING DOOR...
Immediate issue I see is it would be another thing to make the SS better and the Berserker worse.
I'd like to see the effect of the sharpie nerf and the firebug/zerker buff before I make an opinion on a new specimen
Agreed, no more ranged specimens it would make the game unplayable for berserkers and very hard for everyone else unless the projectiles shot by specimens were moving at ridiculously slow speeds (easy to dodge).
There should be more fast specimens instead. That way it wouldnt hinder the berserker too much but would still make the game harder when specimens could actually catch up to level 6 medics.
Well everyone and their brother on this forums keeps saying that suicidal is so easy and KF needs to be harder. Well ranged attack specimens would definitely do that. Also I never play zerker as it is an underpowered class. Why put myself in jeopardy for no reason when I can kill the zeds quicker and safer with a gun. Melee combat went out of style in what the middle ages?
Plus if its hard for the zerker who cares...this is supposed to be a cooperative game right? No class should be good against all zeds...that's why you have teammates. This is exactly why the Sharpie is overpowered b/c it can handle all situations and all enemies big and small. No class should have that. So in short ranged zeds would be hard for some classes easier for others....that my friends is called balance and it increases game play not detracts from it.
Someone suggested a flashbang zed in another thread in this forum. And recommended them being cloaked like the stalker, only it woud pahse in and out of visibility.
EDIT was No Glory:
I just had a thought earlier while reading the wiki on the Patriarch, well more specifically Kevin_Clamely. One point that I noticed was on the line where it says "A short-range teleportation module"
I thought to myself "huh? What specimen has that in order for him to develope the technology?" Answer - None. SO I thought this ability could apply to No Glory's ZED. However I realised it does make it a bit of a bastard ZED tbh :/
*Actual point of the post, read here*
So I thought if we were to have another ZED, how about one that has a limited teleport ability? It would have to be low damage and low health, and function like a crawler. If attacking directly it can make fairly quick 'jumps' towards the player to close the space down. Its kicker would be the ability to get through welded doors.
This would mean Sharpshooters and such who sit at the back of a welded room (like the U-bend in Bio labs) would constantly need to keep an eye behind them so they dont get snuck up on. This is a foe that would be dealt with well by zerkers, but not so well by sharpies... or us Medics for that matter because we do our fair share of chilling at the back
Literally thought of this about 10 minutes ago, so not really given much thought to how gameplay would change.
EDIT was No Glory:
I just had a thought earlier while reading the wiki on the Patriarch, well more specifically Kevin_Clamely. One point that I noticed was on the line where it says "A short-range teleportation module"
I thought to myself "huh? What specimen has that in order for him to develope the technology?" Answer - None. SO I thought this ability could apply to No Glory's ZED. However I realised it does make it a bit of a bastard ZED tbh :/
*Actual point of the post, read here*
So I thought if we were to have another ZED, how about one that has a limited teleport ability? It would have to be low damage and low health, and function like a crawler. If attacking directly it can make fairly quick 'jumps' towards the player to close the space down. Its kicker would be the ability to get through welded doors.
This would mean Sharpshooters and such who sit at the back of a welded room (like the U-bend in Bio labs) would constantly need to keep an eye behind them so they dont get snuck up on. This is a foe that would be dealt with well by zerkers, but not so well by sharpies... or us Medics for that matter because we do our fair share of chilling at the back
Literally thought of this about 10 minutes ago, so not really given much thought to how gameplay would change.
Last edited:
Well they sure would do that, in a point where suicidal would really be impossible. I mean, if you play suicidal and 2-3 husks are shooting at you in a distance, its pretty much byebye you die unless you happen to be a sharpshooter. So imagine like 10-20 zeds shooting stuff at you... Youd have no chance.
I play Berserker on 6 man suicidal a lot, its not as bad as everyone thinks. No reload times, clots cant grab you, you can run quickly with your main weapon, money is no issue... I find it to be the easiest perk to survive with when the rest of the team is dead, because I can just run and take zeds out one by one without having to worry about ammunition.
I dont see how its balanced if all Berserkers were insta-killed at the beginning of each wave. Atm he has to worry about fleshpounds, husks, sirens and also crawlers and bloats for some extend. Add a few ranged zeds more and berserker is unplayable.
Unless they gave berserker amazingly high resistance against those ranged attacks.
Hey, I think that's a pretty good idea! Husks are so annoying for me especially when I play as a berserker. Berserker sure could use some resistance against ranged attacks
I think that is exactly what this game needs to avoid. Ranged specimans suck for the zerker....great...that's b/c NOT ALL CLASSES should be gods. They are supposed to have weak points. That is why everyone hates the sharpie...b/c he has no weaknesses. This game should be a system of checks and balances...some classes have enemies they're great against and other enemies they are weak against. That is why its a COOP game and that is why you have teammates with different perks. Balance your team accordingly to survive.
Yea, camping same room/location the whole 10 waves is a problem in a sense.
Most maps have TONS of great interesting places to fight, but about 95% of map space is unused, simply because there's no reason to fight at different places.
And that's mostly because of the fact that even though trader changes places, most maps are small enough so that 1 minute is more than enough to buy your **** and return to the same spot before the wave starts.
So different trader spots are essentially a gimmick which advertises KF as a game with a ton of replayability, when it's mostly not the case at all.
Yea, you can choose to fight at different spots, but players won't consciously choose a worse position to fight if they can choose the better one.
That's why game needs to force players to fight at different locations.
You shouldn't have enough time to buy everything and stroll around the map before the wave starts.
That was offtopic, sorry
We don't necessarily need new specimen, we just need current ones to be more unique and interesting.
We have too many "Run to you and smack you" type of melee specimen.
There's nothing unique about Stalker-Gorefast-Scrake-FP.
They are just a progressively stronger version of themselves and and only get buffed up in HP/Speed/Damage.
I admit that Crawler is unique.
Clot is unique cause it can grab.
Bloat-Siren-Husk are unique (cause they are ranged), but overlap their roles, similarly to Stalker-Gorefast-Scrake-FP.
They are essentially just a stronger version of themselves.
Stalker isn't unique because she's not invisible at all, so she is just a weaker clot.
There also needs to be a random specimen spawning system.
Currently all the waves are set in stone.
For example, in a hard 10 wave game, wave 7 ALWAYS features 2 Fleshpounds coming at you in the very first seconds of the wave.
That gets really really boring after a while.
Basically, KF has a looot of potential for becoming a high replayability game, but that potential is just not being used properly.
Making players utilize more spots to fight in each map, as well as making spawns more random would add a TON of replayability.
We don't need "NEW!" stuff necessarily
Last edited:
Yes but that wasnt the point... If you add shltloads of ranged specimens berserker would be entirely unplayable... Thats not balance.
Again your wrong. The katana weighs 3 blocks and the xbow 10, which allows the zerker to deal with both melee and ranged zeds. I don't see the problem and am confused as to how the zerker would be unplayable if he has the ability to deal with both melee and ranged zeds?? Not to mention he has up to 5 other teammates to deal with the ranged zeds for him?
Last edited:
I think the point he was making is if you look at each perks weakness list, the list is longest for Berserker.
(m) = minor weakness either meaning easy to screw up or the ZED is generally a pain for the player to kill
Medic: Fleshpound, Siren, Patriarch(m)
Sharpshooter: well.. yes...
Support: Husks, Scrakes(m) and Fleshpounds(m)
Commando: Scrakes(m), Fleshpounds, Patriarch
Demolitions: Stalkers(m), Gorefasts, Scrakes
Firebug: Gorefasts(m), Scrakes, Fleshpounds, Patriarch - Also needing a buff of some description.
Zerker: Crawler(m), Siren, Husk, Fleshpound, Patriarch
A class should be able to function on its own 2 feet without borrowing from another class. (Exception Medic, since he has no wepaon buffs). There are obviously moments where handling each of these as that respective class is easy, but if your caught off guard these ZEDs will give people problems. Adding more ranged specimens makes the list longer for the Berserker, which since half the specimens on the field cause him issue already, giving him more to contend with would be a little bit harsh for him.
At least thats the way I see it
Last edited:
I think the point he was making is if you look at each perks weakness list, the list is longest for Berserker.
(m) = minor weakness either meaning easy to screw up or the ZED is generally a pain for the player to kill
Medic: Fleshpound, Siren, Patriarch(m)
Sharpshooter: well.. yes...
Support: Husks, Scrakes(m) and Fleshpounds(m)
Commando: Scrakes(m), Fleshpounds, Patriarch
Demolitions: Stalkers(m), Gorefasts, Scrakes
Firebug: Gorefasts(m), Scrakes, Fleshpounds, Patriarch - Also needing a buff of some description.
Zerker: Crawler(m), Siren, Husk, Fleshpound, Patriarch
A class should be able to function on its own 2 feet without borrowing from another class. (Exception Medic, since he has no wepaon buffs). There are obviously moments where handling each of these as that respective class is easy, but if your caught off guard these ZEDs will give people problems. Adding more ranged specimens makes the list longer for the Berserker, which since half the specimens on the field cause him issue already, giving him more to contend with would be a little bit harsh for him.
At least thats the way I see it
I gotta disagree.
If done properly the firebug's list is just as long as the zerkers if you add the Husk to his list. Matter of fact the husk has to be added to his list of difficult enemies to kill considering the FB cannot effectively kill the husk with his main weapon, thus requiring a weapon change.
Let's also not forget that the FB cannot carry the xbow if he is carrying his flamer so he is at MORE of a disadvantage than the zerker in my opinion. The xbow can drop a scrake and a FP pretty quickly even when your not a sharpie. The FB has no true ability to effectively deal with scrakes and FPs. At least the zerker can carry the xbow to deal with scrakes and FP, actually only FPs b/c you can insta stun a scrake with the alt fire swing of the katana. Also the FT runs outta ammo so quickly on hard/suicidal where as the zerker never does.
The only true advantage the FB gets over the zerker is his ability to kill enemies from a distance with his main weapon.
Thats ineffective argument because the crossbow ISNT berserkers weapon. He is a melee perk and SHOULDNT HAVE TO rely on ranged weapons.
If you and tons of ranged zeds, berserker is forced to become ranged too >_>. So you might aswell choose Sharpshooter instead.
What if you just admit it wouldnt work out with the way berserker is built atm, so we can all stop arguing.
Last edited:
In short your argument is: i'm a zerker so i should only have to use melee weapons. That is like saying I'm a support so I should NEVER heal b/c that is the medics job. It makes no sense and it is much to rigid to be realistic.
I don't know a zerker who doesn't rely on his 9mm or other more powerful ranged weapon to take out crawlers before they get to him and the 9mm isn't the zerkers weapon either? So using OTHER WEAPONS is inherent in the zerker perk and a necesary part of game play?
Moreover, just b/c the xbow isn't his weapon doesn't mean he's at a disadvantage by using it. The xbow shot for shot is the most powerful gun in the game perk enhanced or not.
Personally I never use the zerker so it wouldn't bother me if we had more ranged zeds. And saying the zerker is not supposed to use ranged weapons doesn't make sense b/c he spawns with a 9mm and the only effective melee weapon he has only weighs 3 blocks allowing ALL KINDS of room for other ranged weapons. You'd be a FOOL to think that the zerker is not supposed purchase ranged weapons when he has the blocks to do so and it would make him a more effective player.
A new Zed for wave 4?
A new Zed for wave 4?
As it stands certain zeds show up as the waves progress.
Wave one: Bloat, Clot, Gored Fast
Wave two: Bloat, Clot, Gored Fast, add: Stalker, Crawler, Husk
Wave three: Bloat, Clot, Gored Fast, Stalker, Crawler, Husk, add: Siren
Wave four: No new adds
Wave Five: No new adds, (sometimes though a Scrake or Two)
Wave Six: Add Scrake
Wave seven: add Fleshpound
Wave eight through ten: ALL IN
I think something should be added for the wave 4
Not another ranged zed though something in between a scrake and a gored fast I think. or something between a gored fast and a bloat.
Thoughts?
A new Zed for wave 4?
As it stands certain zeds show up as the waves progress.
Wave one: Bloat, Clot, Gored Fast
Wave two: Bloat, Clot, Gored Fast, add: Stalker, Crawler, Husk
Wave three: Bloat, Clot, Gored Fast, Stalker, Crawler, Husk, add: Siren
Wave four: No new adds
Wave Five: No new adds, (sometimes though a Scrake or Two)
Wave Six: Add Scrake
Wave seven: add Fleshpound
Wave eight through ten: ALL IN
I think something should be added for the wave 4
Not another ranged zed though something in between a scrake and a gored fast I think. or something between a gored fast and a bloat.
Thoughts?