New Specimen Models

[Junkie]

As I PERSONALLY HAVE seen from the Christmas and Summer events, Tripwire has gotten much, much better at modeling. So I was thinking, why don't they go and give the current specimen models a nice graphical update? It really is a bit jarring to see the bland, ugly old models (ALL OF COURSE IN MY OPINION) again after the hideously wonderful Summer ones. I believe it really would give the game a breath of fresh air (IN MY OPINION). What do you guys think?

Edit: As a clarification, this does not mean total re-designs, or any redesigning at all. What I had in mind was maybe higher res textures and higher quality models. The designs would be completely the same.

 

[Johnny9]

While that' be awesome, and you're right Tripwire did a great job with the summer models, I found it a little refreshing to have the old models back again.

I'd actually prefer they save new models for a sequel But it's not worth being shot in the foot over so i voted awesome

 

[TheAzathoth]

This game is like 2 years old so its normal that the models look somewhat uglier now...

Personally i think thats asking too much to the TWI crew, they have already give us 2 solid years of FREE updates (except the DLCs but they are not even necessary to play the game.)

In this 2 years TWI has released:

- A new specimen
- New Perks
- Another Dificult Level
- Another Perk Level
- New Weapons
- Core Maps
- 2 Amazing Events (Xmas and Summer)

Seriously, this is THE FIRST TIME i saw a Developer doing this, its just awesome.

With or without new models i just want to say:

Thanks a lot for this hard work TWI, you guys rock.

 

[Junkie]

This game is like 2 years old so its normal that the models look somewhat uglier now...

Personally i think thats asking too much to the TWI crew, they have already give us 2 solid years of FREE updates (except the DLCs but they are not even necessary to play the game.)

In this 2 years TWI has released:

- A new specimen
- New Perks
- Another Dificult Level
- Another Perk Level
- New Weapons
- Core Maps
- 2 Amazing Events (Xmas and Summer)

Seriously, this is THE FIRST TIME i saw a Developer doing this, its just awesome.

With or without new models i just want to say:

Thanks a lot for this hard work TWI, you guys rock.

Valve also consistently updates their games with free content.

I'm not saying there should be complete re-designs of all the specimens. Just maybe some graphical enhancement. This doesn't create any balancing issues or anything like that which something like a new gun would cause. This is seems like a simple cosmetic update.

 

[Slappy Cromwell]

This suggestion is a pretty big insult to Tripwire's work. From a technical standpoint, the Xmas and Circus specimens are no better than the originals. They just have a different style. This is very likely due to the fact that the Xmas and Circus specimen models were made by this guy, while the some (all?) of the original specimen models were made by this guy. As you can see, nobody magically improved the quality of their content in two years time (which is a false assumption to begin with). Rather, different people were involved in the creation of different products.

The notion that the game is in dire need of a graphical update is entirely subjective and it's rather disappointing to see so many people lambasting the original content as if there's truly something wrong with it.

 

[9_6]

I'm not saying there should be complete re-designs of all the specimens. Just maybe some graphical enhancement.

Like for example?

Cause all I see is someone saying something like this:

,after seeing this:

would need a "graphical enhancement" because omgdetails.
Design, man. Not just the sum of details. Simple but recognizable beats detailed but too busy.

Now I do believe that you don't have to be a masterful artist to be qualified to critique art but you just seem so very clueless and what you say can be interpreted as so very insulting to the person who did a good job making the original models which have details you have probably not even paid attention to and that actually do work so much better gameplay-wise than the circus ones for how easily and quickly recognizable they are...

However I don't want you to outright "kill yourself" like the poll says (=P) but maybe just pay a bit more attention to what you wish for.
Just "make it look better" isn't helpful, it's frustrating. Imagine being the artist reading that.
And if you took a look at the original models, you would have seen that they already are chock-full of detail so there's just no simple way to "add to that" short of making them from scratch. And what for?
You don't provide anything solid that would need improvement so the remake would probably also end up not being "good enough" after the next slew of new models simply because they are different from what you are familiar with.

That whole "graphics race" really is a curse since it twists people into thinking that "up to date" is always better with no regards for aesthetics.

the Xmas and Circus specimen models were made by this guy, while the some (all?) of the original specimen models were made by this guy.

Ah, neat.
More people to follow.

 

[Junkie]

Jeez. I never said the game is in any dire need of any graphics update, nor did I ever once say all the specimens should have some entire re-design.

If you are going to deny that the older models have lower resolution textures and blockier models, then you should probably have your eyes checked. My complaints never laid with the designs.

9_6, your comment comes off as rather assuming and is highly subjective. Not once did I ever have any visual identification problems with the Christmas or Summer zeds. You say I am insulting the old artist, but then you insult the new artist by saying his models are very cluttered and hard to identify? I don't think that artist would appreciate your comments very much.

The simple fact of the matter is that the newer zeds looks more professionally done. A simple graphical update, which I never once said I found necessary and simply said it would be nice, would not add anything distracting and simply enhance the look of the zeds.

Please do not label me as some graphics whore. I don't appreciate it.

 

[TheAzathoth]

If you are going to deny that the older models have lower resolution textures and blockier models, then you should probably have your eyes checked. My complaints never laid with the designs.

Totally agree with you, i dont know why that guy start to saying about "magical improvements in this two years" dude its called evolution, the artist got better making great models.

Anyways i still think is asking too much to TWI because of all the great stuff they have give us.

PD: Valve stuff is not free for Xbox users

 

[Slappy Cromwell]

the older models have lower resolution textures and blockier models

You're honestly judging the quality of the models by their texture resolution and poly count? Higher automatically results in better? That's a ridiculously absurd assertion to make to begin with, but hey, why not humor you for a bit? Let's take a look at the Bloat's skin and compare his texture resolution between the original, Xmas, and Circus versions:


Hey look, the texture resolution for all three Bloats, 1024x1024, is exactly the same! And guess what? 1024x1024 sized texture sheets are used for almost all of the specimens in both the originals and the seasonal event versions! The one exception is the original and Xmas Patriarch who both use a 2048x2048 texture while the Circus Patriarch only has a 1024x1024 texture. Hey, this is in complete contradiction to your claim!

You say the original models are blockier. Well, let's have a look at the poly count of Mr. Head Hitbox himself, the Husk:


Well, wouldn't you know, the original Husk has a higher face count than either the Xmas or Circus versions! In fact, there's quite a discrepancy when it comes to the Xmas Husk's poly count. But guess what? It doesn't mean a damn thing. The original, Xmas, and Circus specimens were all built to the same technical specs, texture and model-wise. No specimen set is superior to the other, and that certainly means the Xmas and Circus specimens are by no mean better than the originals. They're just different.

The simple fact of the matter is that the newer zeds looks more professionally done.

Again, a slap in the face to Tripwire's original work, one that's completely unjustified if not outright wrong. I suggest you have your eyes checked.

 

[Benjamin]

Jeez, he's entitled to his opinion.

 

[Slappy Cromwell]

Jeez, he's entitled to his opinion.

He's claiming there are objective qualities that make the original specimens lesser than the Xmas and Circus specimens. Not only are these claims patently false, he's using subjective opinions to support his "facts".

I think Tripwire did a fantastic job with Killing Floor. If you want to make threads calling their work a putrid pile of steamy ****, that's perfectly fine with me. Just make sure you state it as an opinion, not as a fact.

 

[Benjamin]

He's claiming their are objective qualities that make the original specimens lesser than the Xmas and Circus specimens. Not only are these claims patently false, he's using subjective opinions to support his "facts".

Perhaps he's just trying to understand why he thinks the newer ones look better?

 

[Gartley]

While I like the initial idea, I think what also needs to be considered is the limitations of the engine that KF is in. (Unreal 2.5 IIRC) The way it works is to load all the game resources into memory. So the more that's required the more that is needed out of the system which could cause problems.

 

[timur]

I think that it's really all opinion; as Cromwell pointed out, there are few technical differences, and it's mostly style and personal preference.

 

[dogbadger]

i wouldn't mind seeing another shooter of some sort - but with a different type of projectile to the husk's ball of flame.

 

[Junkie]

Unnecessary rage

Jesus christ, calm the hell down. You are getting so incredibly enraged for absolutely no reason.

I obviously don't know all the technical aspects of the models or textures, but I don't know a single person who disagrees with me, besides obviously you, as you have so adamantly stated in your opinion. My intention with the post was never to come off as hostile or insulting. I figured that it was simply common opinion that the newer models looked nicer than the old ones. I am sorry for making such an incredibly ludicrous error.

You have went completely overboard in your ridiculously acrimonious rant. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with insulting Tripwire's fine work. However, time goes on. Both people and technology improve. I was never saying that the original models were bad. Simply that Tripwire had improved. Companies learn and gain experience. I didn't even think the prospect of a fresh coat of paint would even be something that would be argued over. Apparently I was wrong.

Calm down.

Thanks.

 

[timur]

I think that Slappy might be slightly overreacting, but at the same time, he is right. Models, ect, are extremely work-intensive, especially at the proffessional level, and once you understand what is behind the product, any perceived insult becomes far more rude.

Now, I don't think you meant to necessarily insult the work in question, and it was really a minor slight, so I don't exactly warrant some of the rhetoric. However, he does lay out some good points, and really demonstrates the fact that the vanilla models have equal or more detail in them. And once you count that, you have to ask what really makes the new models better to you, because it is arguably a matter of personal taste.

I hope that helped the situation (maybe?)

 

[9_6]

9_6, your comment comes off as rather assuming and is highly subjective.

Well duh, we're talking about art here.

You say I am insulting the old artist, but then you insult the new artist by saying his models are very cluttered and hard to identify? I don't think that artist would appreciate your comments very much.

Old clot: gray, old gorefast: red, old crawler: black. Can't miss them.
New clot, gorefast, clot: gray in gray and the blades for limbs of the new clot didn't help with that.
It's a comment on what exactly could be improved or what exactly I see wrong with the new models as opposed to "the old models don't look professional enough".

The simple fact of the matter is that the newer zeds looks more professionally done.

Speaking of the devil...
Was that supposed to be objective?
Cause you kind of held my subjectivity against me earlier...

A simple graphical update, which I never once said I found necessary and simply said it would be nice, would not add anything distracting and simply enhance the look of the zeds.

You still didn't say what needs updating (and what you said about resolutions has been debunked already) and I'll just make the broad assumption that you have no idea at all how "simple" things would actually be.
Just a hunch.

Please do not label me as some graphics whore. I don't appreciate it.

Well that was your interpretation now.

I obviously don't know all the technical aspects of the models or textures, but I don't know a single person who disagrees with me, besides obviously you[Slappy Cromwell], as you have so adamantly stated in your opinion.

*waves*

I was never saying that the original models were bad. Simply that Tripwire had improved.
...
Apparently I was wrong.

Calm down.

Thanks.

Yes you were since it has already been brought to your attention that it were in fact 2 different artists who worked on each set of models. "Tripwire" didn't "improve". That was a completely different person doing the stuff.

And I am calm. You're just in an indefensible position is all.

Jeez, he's entitled to his opinion.

You mean belief, eh?

But sure. So?
Am I not?

 

[Junkie]

words

I wasn't talking to you.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you over something so stupid. This thread isn't a debate on what artist is better/what models are more easily identifiable.

The fact that such an argument would reach such a level of hostility is baffling to me. I never came in here to start a debate, I came to raise a discussion on a potential idea. You could've simply stated your opinion and been done with it, but instead you chose to label me as a graphics snob.

However, it is clear from the poll so far, that many people would enjoy a revamp of the specimens.

 

[dogbadger]

when or not art appears to be professionally done is not necessarily subjective, whether you like it is.