New Perk "BruteGunner" aka Heavy Gunner

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vangel

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 2, 2012
32
0
0
pcguru.sg
i still cant
PLEASE: bear in mind that even if you have done nothing wrong, you may be getting this page due to someone's misuse of the site in your ip range

Now I am using a static IP which is only owned by me (one person) assigned to me like 3 months ago. So this is really weird.
 

poosh

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 6, 2011
3,403
327
83
First, I want to say that there shouldn't be any issues with using ScrnBalance together with custom perks, including this one. Of course, custom perks won't automatically benefit from ScrN features like Custom Weapon Support, but they'll be still playable together with ScrnBalance mod.

Making a custom perk fully compatible (support all scrn features) is easy (5-10 minutes of job), but requires perk's recompilation, linking it to ScrnBalance. As an example I've made scrn-compatible version of this perk (mutator + source):
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/70213558/KFSrc/ScrnBruteGunner.zip
It allows server admins to link custom weapons for this perk, allowing also perk progression.


Now about the perk itself.
Mine first opinion on Brute Gunner was simple: "overpowered crap".
But after testing a bit I found it quite interesting. I must admit the job Guardiannknight made is respectable. Brute Gunner is an unique perk, not just some kind of stock perks' mixing like many other modders do. I don't think Brute Gunner can find his role in vanilla game (not enough powerful enemies to fight), but he could find his place in fighting heavy custom monsters like Brute, Doom monsters etc.
But the problem is that Brute Gunner is damn too overpowered even against such huge enemies like Doom3 Bosses. He benefits almost all bonuses from stock perks while his main weakness - speed reduction - almost disappears when reaching level 6. Even more, if server's perk level cap is raised, then after level 9 Brute Gunner starts to move faster than other perks!

Here are my suggestions to balance this perk:
  • Don't raise speed when leveling up. Speed penalty is a general weakness, so it should be persistent across the perk levels. 40% speed penalty is too big imo. Set it to 20%, but keep constant no matter of perk level.
  • Why the hell Brute Gunner has damage resistance? He has so powerful guns to don't let any monsters come close. An even they managed to get close to him, they can't deal any significant damage. Kindda silly. Giving Brute Gunner some resistance to explosives and fire (Husk projectiles) is debatable, but he shouldn't be resistant to Bloat's bile and melee damage.
  • I'd suggest to lower weapon prices and grant standard discount rate (10% per level, up to 70% @ level 60). Then it will be much easier to compare/balance prices with other perks' weapons. Other perks can't hold BGs weapons anyway due to high weight.
 

Guardiannknight

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 24, 2012
420
0
0
www.guardiansworlds.com
i still cant


Now I am using a static IP which is only owned by me (one person) assigned to me like 3 months ago. So this is really weird.


Oh :/ yeah, that would be a good reason why your unable to download the file. PM me your ip and I'll remove the restriction. I say a section of ip addresses have been blocked, not just a specific one. I won't be able to do it until after work, so it will be later this evening.
 

Guardiannknight

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 24, 2012
420
0
0
www.guardiansworlds.com
Now about the perk itself.
Mine first opinion on Brute Gunner was simple: "overpowered crap".
But after testing a bit I found it quite interesting. I must admit the job Guardiannknight made is respectable. Brute Gunner is an unique perk, not just some kind of stock perks' mixing like many other modders do. I don't think Brute Gunner can find his role in vanilla game (not enough powerful enemies to fight), but he could find his place in fighting heavy custom monsters like Brute, Doom monsters etc.
But the problem is that Brute Gunner is damn too overpowered even against such huge enemies like Doom3 Bosses. He benefits almost all bonuses from stock perks while his main weakness - speed reduction - almost disappears when reaching level 6. Even more, if server's perk level cap is raised, then after level 9 Brute Gunner starts to move faster than other perks!

Here are my suggestions to balance this perk:
  • Don't raise speed when leveling up. Speed penalty is a general weakness, so it should be persistent across the perk levels. 40% speed penalty is too big imo. Set it to 20%, but keep constant no matter of perk level.
  • Why the hell Brute Gunner has damage resistance? He has so powerful guns to don't let any monsters come close. An even they managed to get close to him, they can't deal any significant damage. Kindda silly. Giving Brute Gunner some resistance to explosives and fire (Husk projectiles) is debatable, but he shouldn't be resistant to Bloat's bile and melee damage.
  • I'd suggest to lower weapon prices and grant standard discount rate (10% per level, up to 70% @ level 60). Then it will be much easier to compare/balance prices with other perks' weapons. Other perks can't hold BGs weapons anyway due to high weight.



Thank you Poosh for your thoughts on the perk and ideas. I'm on my cell phone since I'm at work, so please look over any typos and such. Auto word correct drives me nuts sometimes... :/

As for the perk. It was created for modded servers, not regular game types. I guess I should have noted that in my first post. I have a very creative mind and imagination, as I try to show in this perk, as well as my modded servers in run.

Where did the idea come from? Well, many games I have played over the years. Been gaming since I was 4, and computer gaming since I was 9, so probably been gaming longer than some of you have been alive :p just a little info about myself. :D but back to the perk ;)

when I created the perk itself was thinking of a huge muscle soldier. That is where that resistance comes from ;) On my servers modded servers, the Brute is needed, at least one or two of them. The last game I played on my lesser modded server the other night,, there was me and 4 others. We had made it to wave 10 or 11 of 13 waves. Well, even with me being a level 3 Brute and a level one Brute, we was over taken, by Jason's and the other Zeds, including fatalistic, hellfires and the rest no FP's, and this was on normal...

The perk and weapons are over powered for regular game use. Maybe on hard or above it would be more challenging. If anything, the perk could be used for fun, or as backup. The Brute is definitely not a front line unit, way to slow against the Zeds.

As for the resistance again. It's my imagination and thoughts of what a Brute, or heavy grunt soldier would be resistant to. The Brute is a huge warrior, so its going to be resistant to some melee and of coarse explosions. Bloat vomit, a little not much, but the Brutes major weakness is fire. And with his slow movement, he is an easy target ;) also, his slow moment is another weakness and a major one at that. That is the big reason I was wiped out. I could not out run Jason, and with the increase of players, could not take a couple of Jason's out, before they wiped me out.

Now, as for playing single player. Yeah, even Jason's and FP are not to bad at lvl 3 Brute on normal. But that's playing alone, with no added Zeds per extra player or health increase on certain Zeds.

As for the weight of the weapons and price. The weight of coarse makes the weapons mainly for just the Brute, however other perks can use the weapons, but it will take up most of their weight slots, as it should. The weapons have been modified for the Brute. Meaning, bigger guns equal, more power, more weight and a higher price tag. I wanted it to be were the Brute could not be used at the very beginning, unless of coarse extra money is given. The perk is one that a person must earn to use, and it has double the amount of points to increase each level, so, its a slow progression, and when one does hit those higher levels, it is worth the time and effort.

As for moment speed. I made him slow to make it again, a challenge. Even at level 6,he is still 10% slower. That's still a big weakness.

As for the perk itself, it's not really over powered. It's the weapons that make the perk so powerful. The weapons have been increased in power. There the Brutes weapons ;) so there again, even if a regular perk user used the weapons, they are going to do a lot of damage as well. Also, let's take the M41A for example. I have this gun, not modified on my servers as well, for the commando. With that weapon and the commando perk, the commando is a killing machine, that actually moves pretty quick compared to the Brute.

Now I know, your asking, why modify the weapons? Imagination and creative thinking :p. Plus, this makes the Brute perk. The weapons are big, powerful and expensive, we'll crazy expensive to everyone except the Brute. But once you are able to afford the weapons, the perk is fun to use, and becomes a much needed asset to the squad on modded servers.

Your more than welcome to try either of my modded servers out, you'll see why the Brute is the way he is. Even on my lesser modded server, he is no match in later waves to all the Zeds when playing with a few players. Again, playing alone, I have made it to the Pat, a couple times, but it's not a guarantee. Both my modded servers are setup on normal, any high and they would be insane. They are hard enough as is :)

So, i wouldn't recommend the Brute for regular games, unless you're just looking for support and playing for fun,to most down some Zeds. Now if your playing on hard or higher difficulty, the Brute will be come more of a real strategy to the squad.

So, what are the Brutes big weaknesses? His slow movement and fire. He is a very easy target for Husk, Hellfires, and fatales. He is also weak against swarms of Zeds with a few strong Zeds in the mix. FP's will kill the Brute for certain if he has to reload some of his weapons.

As for weapons prices, again, I raised the prices due to increased power of each weapon. Plus to make them hard to get, and make the perk something to strive for and part of the strategy of the squad. I will be adding two more slightly cheaper weapons and a of coarse a little weaker power wise, to the perk this weekend. If all goes well. The RPK47 and SA80. I have the source setup and the weapons configured. Just didn't get to to compile it. I'm worried though that some textures may be missing from the weapons. All the files came with was a animation file for each. So, unless the textures are in the animation file... I'll be running into problems :/

Thank you again though for your thoughts on the perk and ideas. I may work on the perk stats some more, just have been testing it, and now adding two more weapons, need to test it more, to try to balance it a little more. :)

Also, again I'm on my phone... So, hopefully all this made sense, and look over the typos :p
 
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Guardiannknight

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 24, 2012
420
0
0
www.guardiansworlds.com
UPDATE: V107

UPDATE V107

Changes:

1. Added RPK47 and SA80LSW to the Brute Perk :D
2. Modified the new weapons for the Brute perk ;)
3. Adjusted settings in each weapon, to help balance, with adding the new weapons.

The new weapons are a little lower priced and also, a little less powerful. Not by much, but it will give a little easier access to weapons for the Brute Perk ;)

Want to say thanks to the Russian modders who created the RPK and SA80, the weapons are just as awesome as the other weapons you all have made :D

Want to thank Massacrer for suggesting the two weapons and finding me the download link for the RPK47 :)



Download link in first post :)
 

hegyeri

Member
Aug 29, 2012
201
8
18
Warning: Failed to load 'Patgun.u'
Warning: Failed to load 'serverperksv5.u'

BruteGunnerPerkandWeapV107.zip (Two of the files are missing)
 

Guardiannknight

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 24, 2012
420
0
0
www.guardiansworlds.com
Warning: Failed to load 'Patgun.u'
Warning: Failed to load 'serverperksv5.u'

BruteGunnerPerkandWeapV107.zip (Two of the files are missing)


Are you using serverperks? If so, what version of serverperks are you using? Little confused on the two files your showing as errors. If you can, show the error log when your server is starting.

EDIT:

Also, make sure you remove any earlier versions of the BruteGunner files from your system directory. And be sure that you have changed the listings in your killingfloor.ini file and also serverperks ini file.

Meaning, if you had BruteGunnerWeapV105, be sure to change it and the other listings to V107. Another example, BruteGunnerPerkV105 would now be BruteGunnerPerkV107
 
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Maddoxx

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
941
46
0
Earth
EDIT: ok, after reading your post again, I'm wanting to check. Are you saying the Brute is not leveling at all, or is it just not leveling past gold 6?


I'm on my phone, so i'll do my best to reply.

So the stock perks, continue to multiply as you progress and continue to give perk info for levels higher than Gold 6? I've never tried pushing stock perks past level 6, well that's if your not including zero. 6 to me is Gold. I have thought about allowing up to level 7 of 8 on my modded servers, but honestly didn't know how the stock perks would act. If the stock perks continue to allow the perk to increase, and also list the perks perk list for 7 and higher, then I'll probably allow 7 or 8 on my modded servers.

The reason the Brutes is probably not working, is because i have it coded for each level as for what the points need to be for the next level and so on, up to gold 6. Same goes with the description, I only have a description written to gold 6. I thought that is how the stock ones where as well... Unless maybe there is a code they use to continue the points progression, but I'm confused on how the perk description continues on the stock ones, because, even they are written up to gold 6 and no further...

I can easily go into the Brute and Guardian perks and add more perk progress. I will need to change the version. I don't think I could set and do 50 levels... That would be insane for one on the perks, and take way to much time to add all those lines in. I could probably go up to 10. Even that would be insane on how the perks are setup.

So, again, since I have never tried even stock perks above gold 6,the stock ones continue to level and also shows a perk description past level gold 6?

I have set minperklv 6 and max 50 in configuration of serverperkmutator.

So, i start with lv 6 on Brute and in menu i can read perkeffectinfo for next level, which would be lv7. Once i reach lv 7, there is no further perkeffectinfo to read.

But now that i read that you scripted lv to max 6, it makes more sense. I should start as lv -1 and not as lv 6. Still, this arises one question: the "lv 7" where i am supposed to spawn with PKM is actually lv 6, if i start as -1?

I am thinking that -1 to 6 = 7 steps and then i should spawn with PKM as lv 6?
 

halbridious

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 6, 2011
1,769
211
0
Michigan (USA)
i don't think it works like that Maddox. if you start at -1, you'll just have to complete a certain number of challenges to even unlock the perk.
 

Guardiannknight

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 24, 2012
420
0
0
www.guardiansworlds.com
The Brute and Guardian perks are setup from 0 to 6. Meaning 7 levels of perk progression. Same way he stock ones are setup. My question is now, since I've never played on a server above gold 6 and have never tried to set the perks above gold 6,do the stock perks continue? How they are setup, it looks like the would halt, just as the perks I made would... ?

As for the PKM, you should spawn with it, at gold 6. I will have to look at the perk setup again, when I'm on my computer. If think I have it set for gold 6.

I'm just really curious if the stock one actually make it over gold 6,without any coding being done to them? I thought about giving the Brute and Guardian perks up to level 7 or 8,but didn't want to do that if stock perks no longer progressed.
 

Maddoxx

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
941
46
0
Earth
The Brute and Guardian perks are setup from 0 to 6. Meaning 7 levels of perk progression. Same way he stock ones are setup. My question is now, since I've never played on a server above gold 6 and have never tried to set the perks above gold 6,do the stock perks continue? How they are setup, it looks like the would halt, just as the perks I made would... ?

As for the PKM, you should spawn with it, at gold 6. I will have to look at the perk setup again, when I'm on my computer. If think I have it set for gold 6.

I'm just really curious if the stock one actually make it over gold 6,without any coding being done to them? I thought about giving the Brute and Guardian perks up to level 7 or 8,but didn't want to do that if stock perks no longer progressed.

Make it over gold 6? When i start as lv 6 i can read in menu perkeffectinfo for next level, lv 7. Once i reach lv 7, there is no more text/anything to read further for any next level, which would be lv 8.
 

Massacrer

Member
Mar 26, 2012
934
5
18
hzgaming.net
If you use serverperks 6.0, when it goes over 6, the color is at golden yellow, afterwards, once you get past 11 and 16, it becomes green and blue respectively.
 

Guardiannknight

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 24, 2012
420
0
0
www.guardiansworlds.com
Make it over gold 6? When i start as lv 6 i can read in menu perkeffectinfo for next level, lv 7. Once i reach lv 7, there is no more text/anything to read further for any next level, which would be lv 8.

This is just a guess, since I've never done what your doing, as for starting out at level 6 for perks. But, you could probably start out at 5,and the level 6 perk would probably work, until I get the chance to work on extending the perk out.

Still, my question is, do the stock perks continue to raise, for example, level 7,8.... Etc etc., and if so, do the perks continue to advance? Or do the players only get stars, and no more power advancements and such? I'm still a little confused on how the stock perks, can continue to advance, power wise, when they are setup, just as my perks are... Unless, the stock perks have been modded, or there is a code in the stock perks, that allow the perk to continue to progress.?
 

Massacrer

Member
Mar 26, 2012
934
5
18
hzgaming.net
This is just a guess, since I've never done what your doing, as for starting out at level 6 for perks. But, you could probably start out at 5,and the level 6 perk would probably work, until I get the chance to work on extending the perk out.

Still, my question is, do the stock perks continue to raise, for example, level 7,8.... Etc etc., and if so, do the perks continue to advance? Or do the players only get stars, and no more power advancements and such? I'm still a little confused on how the stock perks, can continue to advance, power wise, when they are setup, just as my perks are... Unless, the stock perks have been modded, or there is a code in the stock perks, that allow the perk to continue to progress.?

The experience required after level 6 is based on an equation.
 

Maddoxx

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 16, 2011
941
46
0
Earth
So do the stock perks continue to advance in power? Or do they just advance as in you gain a star when you hit the certain point quota?

From lv 6 - 7 i got another star, but not ammoincrease, etc..

I am a noob with modding ,etc.. I am surprised noone else more experienced has answered your question yet?

But from your previous answers, it seems you must script to wanted max level yourself!? I WISH it could be done automatically with serverperks!?
 
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