new guns, rejoice guise :D

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LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
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Prussotroll's Bridge
im not acusing you, im just stating what you are ;)

anyways, im not going to discuss anything with you, if you noticed, i didnt even write to you ;)
 

!_Zombie_!

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2009
128
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In a personal opinion, I would much rather see an AN-94 over the AK, but from a location standpoint, the Steyr AUG wouldn't be a bad choice to put into the game. The FIDF of the United Kingdom use it.
 

AuthenticDan

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 13, 2009
17
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Wow I didnt realise how awful the AK is?!

Why arent M16's flooding the planet instead!! :rolleyes:

Because the Soviets made ****loads of them and handed them out like candy.

I guarantee that alternate history where the AK was never invented and the world was instead flooded with M16s/FALs/G3s/dildos you'd be in this thread right now defending the M16/FAL/G3/dildo because you watched a History Channel documentary about the M16/FAL/G3/dildo and how its reliability is so legendary and its such an infallible and easy to use weapon.
 

Dr. Pibb

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 16, 2009
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I've gone to Russia and Ukraine many times and i know a Ukranian marine who occasionally shoots his AKM and His civilian bought AK 74m (note that is not what they call the civilian type i forgot its name). In his hands he is a very good shot with the AKM. To hear someone say that the AKM is an innacurate piece of trash really doesn't know what he is talking about. Given the fact that he is a cleaning nazi with that rifle and he takes very good care of it, It is accurate. I'm not doubting that you have handled a weapon Zeptorem honestly im not, but maybe you have not handled a good condition AK and have not seen it in the right hands.

Pulled this out of a forum.
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The top picture consists of an AR and an AK, the left one is the AK and the right is the AR. THe bottom pic. is the AR again. This is at 300 yards. The AR is more accurate, The grouping on the AK is pretty good for 300 yards though. It just shows you that a good gun and a good shooter can get the job done well. I would call that accurate enough for the expected combat range. Credit to Einheit 13 for the pics. EDIT:
 
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Zeptorem

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2009
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Know what would be great? If people stopped putting words in my mouth; I never said the AK was an "inaccurate piece of trash". I simply said it was less accurate than most rifles.

I would say that your pictures demonstate that exactly, but frankly, they're pretty useless without some sort of scale and specs on the weapons used; there are zillions of AR variants, many that are very specialized, and almost as many AKs.
 

TheGameexe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 9, 2009
114
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The AK doesn't break, over-heat, it shoots whether cover in mud, or filled with sand. The AK-47 is on the coin of the Russian Federation, it is on the flag of Mozambique.

The AK is un-deniably the best weapon in the world when it comes to simplicity and reliability.

Who needs accuracy when you can spray? :cool:
 

Ihmhi

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 7, 2009
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www.asseater.org
Newsflash: With the exception of the military, special police divisions, gun clubs, and the criminal underground, guns are flat-out absent in Britain.

Realistically, the guns being used should fall into one of two criteria IMO:

1) Already in the British arsenal (and thus salvageable)

2) Cheap/reliable/easy to obtain

The Trader obviously operates on the black market. The AK-47 is hands down the most popular and numerous assault rifle in the world, and an ambitious gal like herself would have no problem acquiring some of them if she can get her hands on something like a friggin' ANTI-TANK ROCKET LAUNCHER.

Debating whether or not a gun is "British" enough makes no sense considering things like the flamethrower.

As for the AK-47, well.. which would prefer: an accurate gun of decent reliability, or a less accurate gun with insanely good reliability? I'll take an AK over an M-series gun any day because of how hardy those things are.
 

D3terioNation

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2005
3,959
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West Sussex, UK
Also just to add to the convo. In an urban environment where penetration is key, the AK wins hands down!

Americans love range wars, hence their weaponry. While the AK was designed for getting up close n personal!
 

Zeptorem

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2009
373
106
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The AK doesn't break, over-heat, it shoots whether cover in mud, or filled with sand.

AHAHAH, you've got to be kidding. An AK, just like any other gun, can and will break, overheat, or jam.

The AK-47 is on the coin of the Russian Federation, it is on the flag of Mozambique.

So?

The AK is un-deniably the best weapon in the world when it comes to simplicity and reliability.

Who needs accuracy when you can spray? :cool:

This bothers me quite a bit.

To judge the effectiveness of anything on one piece of criteria is ignorance of the highest order. Every gun is a compromise in one way or the other, some are better compromises than others. The AKM sacrifices accuracy and controllability for reliability (and don't give me that crap about the AKM being "simpler"; the M16 has fewer moving parts and is, in my opinion, simpler to disassemble and operate) and ease of manufacture. The M16 sacrifices a bit of reliability and ease of manufacture for accuracy and controllability. They are both sides of the same coin. The 7.62x39mm round sacrifices weight, accuracy, and soft target terminal effectiveness for penetration, while the 5.56x45 sacrifices long-range capability and penetration for excellent soft-tissue terminal ballistics and low weight. There are guns out there with equal or superior reliability to the AKM and don't compromise as much accuracy, and guns as accurate, light, and controllable as the M16 yet more reliable (though I still think the "unreliability" of the AR-15 series is very overblown).

Oh, wait, having a contrary opinion? I must be "trolling"... :rolleyes:

Newsflash: With the exception of the military, special police divisions, gun clubs, and the criminal underground, guns are flat-out absent in Britain.

Realistically, the guns being used should fall into one of two criteria IMO:

1) Already in the British arsenal (and thus salvageable)

2) Cheap/reliable/easy to obtain

The Trader obviously operates on the black market. The AK-47 is hands down the most popular and numerous assault rifle in the world, and an ambitious gal like herself would have no problem acquiring some of them if she can get her hands on something like a friggin' ANTI-TANK ROCKET LAUNCHER.

The LAW-80 is a rocket launcher currently in service with the British military.

Debating whether or not a gun is "British" enough makes no sense considering things like the flamethrower.

The flamethrower is improvised (IE, home made).

You've got a decent point, but you could pick some better examples.

Personally, part of what endears me to KF is the interesting and unique variety of weapons. Not just the weapons themselves, but the combination they're in; you wouldn't see a crossbow, an SA-80 carbine, and 19th-century lever-action rifle all together in any other game. Adding an AK-47 and a Katana seems to me to be a bit lazy and unimaginitive, considering both of those are extremely cliche and used in way too many games to begin with. You might call it a service to fans of the zombie genre, I call it uninteresting. The could've definitely picked some more unique and unusual weaponry. How many non-WWII games have the Bren gun? How many have a Saiga-12?

As for the AK-47, well.. which would prefer: an accurate gun of decent reliability, or a less accurate gun with insanely good reliability?

It isn't "insanely reliable". Like all guns, it is as reliable as the person using it and the ammunition/magazines used.

I'll take an AK over an M-series gun any day because of how hardy those things are.

I suppose you'll just love hauling around a combat load of six magazines each weighing about twice as much as a loaded 5.56 STANAG magazine.

Also just to add to the convo. In an urban environment where penetration is key, the AK wins hands down!

I'm sorry, what? Could you explain how "penetration is key" in CQC?

The 5.56x45mm round has excellent terminal ballistics within about 250 m (dependent on barrel length), and fragments violently at close range. 7.62x39 does not.

Frankly, I'd rather have a lower-recoiling, more accurate, lighter round with better soft-tissue wounding capability than a heavy one that can go through walls. I'm guessing China and the former USSR was thinking the same thing when they both dropped 7.62x39 in favour of faster, lighter cartridges that more closely resemble 5.56x45.

Americans love range wars, hence their weaponry. While the AK was designed for getting up close n personal!

Interesting, and yet the M16 came about because of the US DoD studying thousands of engagements during WWII and determining that most happened within about 300m and that a large determining factor in who the victor was was who was able to fire the most ammunition (IE, volume of fire).

Please, don't make stuff up.
 
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D3terioNation

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 15, 2005
3,959
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West Sussex, UK
Frankly, I'd rather have a lower-recoiling, more accurate, lighter round with better soft-tissue wounding capability than a heavy one that can go through walls. I'm guessing China and the former USSR was thinking the same thing when they both dropped 7.62x39 in favour of faster, lighter cartridges that more closely resemble 5.56x45.

Hmm last time I checked China and Russia werent fighting us in Iraq & Afghan... get your head out of the cold war man and get with the times!

I wonder what all the G.Is are complaining about out there if their m16 rifles are doing such a sterling job haha
 

Zeptorem

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2009
373
106
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Hmm last time I checked China and Russia werent fighting us in Iraq & Afghan... get your head out of the cold war man and get with the times!

The clear difference being that Taliban and Iraqi insurgents don't have R&D divisions.

I wonder what all the G.Is are complaining about out there if their m16 rifles are doing such a sterling job haha

I'm not saying the M16 couldn't go for some improvements. Stop with the strawmen.
 

Nanostrike

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
2,025
250
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*Sigh* This has turned from a legit "Will said weapon(s) unbalance the game and overshine other weapons" discussion to a lame "AK-47 is GOD" vs "AK-47 SUXXORZ" thread...
 

Dr. Pibb

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 16, 2009
75
0
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actually to tell you the truth the AK and AR penetrate very well, The AK isn't the power house penetrator as it is known to be.
 

Zeptorem

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2009
373
106
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*Sigh* This has turned from a legit "Will said weapon(s) unbalance the game and overshine other weapons" discussion to a lame "AK-47 is GOD" vs "AK-47 SUXXORZ" thread...

I didn't want that to happen, just wanted to clear up the HUGE amount of misinformation on the subject.

Frankly, it shouldn't be "AK vs M16", it should be "AK vs. Everything else".
 

!_Zombie_!

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 5, 2009
128
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How many have a Saiga-12

MGS4, On the subject of the Saiga-12, if they added it to the game Support Specialist would get it as a shotgun and people would probably react negatively.
 

NitroBullet

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 4, 2009
191
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Why does everyone want an AK-47? It doesn't even fit the setting of current weapons.
I think an SA80 would do much better.
 

Moosecat

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
260
2
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Oooh, do I see another finnish player here? Fan-f***ing-tastic. I thought I was all alone here. :)

Your point is pretty much what I have been trying to put across here, but sadly, people seem to have problem with "commie" weapons and forgetting that they serve the same purpose. To defeat the enemy. I have gotten weary to the weapon stereotypes and gun porn as well, but I seem to find the Автомат Калашникова quite aesthetically pleasing because of the wooden parts and the rugged, durable design. This beauty has character. Unlike its western plastic counterparts.

The reason why so many people have this impression that AK is inaccurate is because of the Hollywood movies where the American hero can just idly stroll towards hundreds of Kalashnikov-brandishing "evil commie insurgents that are threat to apple pie and the American dream" (not meant to be a derogatory comment about anyones home country, so forgive me, just using colours to add emphasis) and kill every single one of them without missing a shot using "the superior American assault rifle" without even bothering to aim. And does not take a scratch in the process. It is called the "Hollywood Effect".



Hmm? Would this be a good time to assume you are finnish too? :)
If this is so, then YAY! \o/


Did someone say COMMUNISM!?

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"EMBRACE DEMOCRACY, OR YOU WILL BE ERADICATED"
 

Zeptorem

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 30, 2009
373
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You have to agree how good the ak47 is for being made after ww2

Yeah, though many modern firearms have their roots in WWII weaponry. The G3, and by extension, the MP5 and variants, go back to the CETME (designed in 1945), which, in turn, has marked similarities to the Nazi Stg. 45.

The M14 is basically a box magazine-fed M1 Garand, most modern semi-automatic pistols operate on the same basic short recoil action as the 1911, the M2 Browning and derivatives are still in service, and the Remington 700 (the basis for the Army's M24 and the USMC's M40) uses what is basically a modified Mauser 98 action, which is over 100 years old.

Basically, gun technology is both continually evolving and, conversely, extremely old. The newer AK74s are quite the step up from AKMs, especially with materials used (polymers), the cartridge it's chambered in, and recoil mitigation.

It's actually pretty amazing how much guns borrow from one another. My favourite assault rifle, the AR-18, never quite made it commercially but managed to be quite popular when tarted up with a bunch of plastic and branded with an "HK" (G36), or cut down, made a lot heavier, and turned into a bullpup (the SA-80).

does this zeptorem guy have a life?

OMG HE SPENT FIVE MINUTES FORMULATING A POST!!!

To get back on topic...

Doesn't anyone think there could be, you know, some more unique and inventive ideas instead of the AK-47 (especially since it basically fits the same niche as the bullpup)?

I mean... that gun is pretty much supersaturated in popular culture. Even if it were as amazing as everyone says it is, I'd be pretty sick of seeing it.
 
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