new guns, rejoice guise :D
- Thread starter Makino
- Start date
Indeed, many seem to put it down only because it is not made in USA.
AK47 is cheap, powerful and very effective weapon for it's purpose.
I find him a bit... Lame, to use a more polite word.
But I can see the appeal for 12-year old prepubescent boys who want to look "cool".
However, it can't be halloween all the time.
Now we only need a black bodysuit and bandanas. And shurikens...
I think the katana is only the beginning of a downward spiral.
May I have a cute kitten model, a double-bladed axe and a viking helmet please?
I wouldn't want to add too many different items to the selection, because having to scroll the shop list in a hurry WILL kill you.
Unless TWI adds a tab in options where you can choose which weapons to prevent from displaying in the shop interface. Then I wouldn't really care. I could just filter the rubbish out.
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The whole reason we have any of the weapons in the game that we do is because they are iconic to the genre.
Pick any weapon in the game - chances are you can find it in at least one or two other zombie ( or zombie like ) games, or games placed in a similar World of Darkness-esque setting that somehow involves the undead as a major part of the universe.
So how would adding guns or various explosives be good compared to adding a katana or <insert regional/ethinic weapon here>? It's still catering to the nature of the genre no matter what you add.
Anything outside of the genre, though, such as miniguns, cannons, high-powered sniper rifles, magic weapons / tech weapons - they are all the fan service everyone seems to be complaining about when it isn't their particular niche being addressed.
If you want to keep a certain weapon out of the game, a good reason other than attacking the group who likes it would help the argument more than the mentioned attack.
The whole problem is that we have weapons that don't follow a good progression - when they become available, the only reason not to take them is a more important purchase comes first, like armor or ammo for your secondary. Is there any particular reason to not take the hand cannon when playing sharpshooter? Or the axe / chainsaw as a berserker?
Or, to be more direct - is there any reason to go back to a previous weapon once you have purchased the next tier? Aside from getting tired of the chainsaw's idle noise, not really. Downgrading doesn't serve a purpose in the game as there isn't really a good enough reason to do so at any time as far as tactics are concerned.
Debating that becomes semantics, though, because changing from the support to commando pretty much requires selling the hunting shotgun and switching to the fairly weaker bullpup, from a numbers point of view, is a downgrade in overall power per shot. But the bullpup has a massive clip, doesn't have as much recoil, and still does decent damage as the commando. So is it still a downgrade?
I'd instead like to see any added weapons serve the purpose of covering the gaps between other weapons. I also don't want them all shoe-horned into being class weapons, except for maybe a weapon or two for the commando since he's being pretty much ignored right now aside from the recent buff.
Examples:
Another melee weapon ( katana, sledge hammer, etc ) that has high attack power and reach, but is slower than the axe. Would be priced between chainsaw and axe.
A machine pistol. Would do damage between the .50 and the 9mm, have a medium clip ( maybe 20 or 25? ) and would be dual wielded like other pistols. Firing speed would be somewhat slower than the bullpup and fairly inaccurate.
Some form of AK / AR15. Clipsize would be around 30 for balance's sake. Would do more damage than the bullpup, but not enough to make it a "only noobs use bullpup" weapon. Firespeed would also have to be comparable.
A multi-barrel riot shotgun like the one from Shadow Warrior, where you can load in up to four shells and fire them all off in quick succession. Rather than have a clip it eats away at like the combat shotgun, I'd like to see it need to be fed the shells manually with the reload, taken from your total ammo. Damage would be greater than that of the hunting shotgun to make up for a slow reload time. Would weigh as much as the LAW, slow down the player like the LAW / Flamethrower / Chainsaw, and would be priced between the LAW and Hunting Shotgun. No perk would affect this weapon.
Single use deployable explosives. Trip mines / propane tanks / land mines / larger-scale fire bombs / etc.
Alternate ammo types for all weapons and related price adjustments on said ammo. EG, support could switch from shot to slug for their shotguns and have the equivalent of a cannon, crossbows could get chemicals on the tips or shoot explosive bolts, pistols could have incendiary ammo, rifles / automatics could get rounds that cause bleeding, etc.
Stuff to add the personal choice aspect to the game rather than just buff perks is what I want. Definite trades you have to make because you personally want that over the other rather than choosing it because it's the most powerful of your choices.
Pick any weapon in the game - chances are you can find it in at least one or two other zombie ( or zombie like ) games, or games placed in a similar World of Darkness-esque setting that somehow involves the undead as a major part of the universe.
So how would adding guns or various explosives be good compared to adding a katana or <insert regional/ethinic weapon here>? It's still catering to the nature of the genre no matter what you add.
Anything outside of the genre, though, such as miniguns, cannons, high-powered sniper rifles, magic weapons / tech weapons - they are all the fan service everyone seems to be complaining about when it isn't their particular niche being addressed.
If you want to keep a certain weapon out of the game, a good reason other than attacking the group who likes it would help the argument more than the mentioned attack.
The whole problem is that we have weapons that don't follow a good progression - when they become available, the only reason not to take them is a more important purchase comes first, like armor or ammo for your secondary. Is there any particular reason to not take the hand cannon when playing sharpshooter? Or the axe / chainsaw as a berserker?
Or, to be more direct - is there any reason to go back to a previous weapon once you have purchased the next tier? Aside from getting tired of the chainsaw's idle noise, not really. Downgrading doesn't serve a purpose in the game as there isn't really a good enough reason to do so at any time as far as tactics are concerned.
Debating that becomes semantics, though, because changing from the support to commando pretty much requires selling the hunting shotgun and switching to the fairly weaker bullpup, from a numbers point of view, is a downgrade in overall power per shot. But the bullpup has a massive clip, doesn't have as much recoil, and still does decent damage as the commando. So is it still a downgrade?
I'd instead like to see any added weapons serve the purpose of covering the gaps between other weapons. I also don't want them all shoe-horned into being class weapons, except for maybe a weapon or two for the commando since he's being pretty much ignored right now aside from the recent buff.
Examples:
Another melee weapon ( katana, sledge hammer, etc ) that has high attack power and reach, but is slower than the axe. Would be priced between chainsaw and axe.
A machine pistol. Would do damage between the .50 and the 9mm, have a medium clip ( maybe 20 or 25? ) and would be dual wielded like other pistols. Firing speed would be somewhat slower than the bullpup and fairly inaccurate.
Some form of AK / AR15. Clipsize would be around 30 for balance's sake. Would do more damage than the bullpup, but not enough to make it a "only noobs use bullpup" weapon. Firespeed would also have to be comparable.
A multi-barrel riot shotgun like the one from Shadow Warrior, where you can load in up to four shells and fire them all off in quick succession. Rather than have a clip it eats away at like the combat shotgun, I'd like to see it need to be fed the shells manually with the reload, taken from your total ammo. Damage would be greater than that of the hunting shotgun to make up for a slow reload time. Would weigh as much as the LAW, slow down the player like the LAW / Flamethrower / Chainsaw, and would be priced between the LAW and Hunting Shotgun. No perk would affect this weapon.
Single use deployable explosives. Trip mines / propane tanks / land mines / larger-scale fire bombs / etc.
Alternate ammo types for all weapons and related price adjustments on said ammo. EG, support could switch from shot to slug for their shotguns and have the equivalent of a cannon, crossbows could get chemicals on the tips or shoot explosive bolts, pistols could have incendiary ammo, rifles / automatics could get rounds that cause bleeding, etc.
Stuff to add the personal choice aspect to the game rather than just buff perks is what I want. Definite trades you have to make because you personally want that over the other rather than choosing it because it's the most powerful of your choices.
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We seem to have drifted a bit off-topic here.
I wasn't saying Katana (which you seem to like) shouldn't be in the game.
Afterall, the textures are in there, now we just need to wait for it to be added. Let's just be patient and hope they will introduce all 3 new toys for us to play with as soon as possible. And when they are released, I'll play with mine and you can play with yours
I think the alternative ammunition would not be a bad idea, but would probably be a nightmare to implement. It would require a lot of new code for all the new ammo types. Currently the ammunition boxes have X number of generic ammunition that gives you 1 clip for all weapons, regardless of it's type. To make the Armour piercing / incendiary / hollow point idea work for, let's say for Commando, it would be 3 different items that the bullpup uses. Which type would the ammunition box give, and how much? One clip each, or just half each, or just a clip of standard rounds, or the ones loaded in the weapon? There are 2 ways to work around this. Either have the trader sell different bullpups preloaded with different ammunition types which use that type exclusively or a generic bullpup with ammunition sold separately. Keeping track of the amount of 2 or more different ammunition types would not be easy, as you would have to have more than one ammunition / clip counter as well. And how would you switch between ammunition types? Obviously the player would have to reload his weapon with the new clip, but how does the game know to load the one you want to use? Would it use 2 or 3 different reload-keys, or a toggle key like firing mode? Or did you mean that you could set the ammunition type at the trader in between waves?
Let's keep it simple, shall we?
I'd much rather have a couple of more useful class specific specials and some non-specific middle-ground toys that would be at least somewhat useful at the task of disposing rampant laboratory experiments trying to chew your face off. AK-47, M79 and the katana all sound like good start.
I wasn't saying Katana (which you seem to like) shouldn't be in the game.
Afterall, the textures are in there, now we just need to wait for it to be added. Let's just be patient and hope they will introduce all 3 new toys for us to play with as soon as possible.
And when they are released, I'll play with mine and you can play with yours I think the alternative ammunition would not be a bad idea, but would probably be a nightmare to implement. It would require a lot of new code for all the new ammo types. Currently the ammunition boxes have X number of generic ammunition that gives you 1 clip for all weapons, regardless of it's type. To make the Armour piercing / incendiary / hollow point idea work for, let's say for Commando, it would be 3 different items that the bullpup uses. Which type would the ammunition box give, and how much? One clip each, or just half each, or just a clip of standard rounds, or the ones loaded in the weapon? There are 2 ways to work around this. Either have the trader sell different bullpups preloaded with different ammunition types which use that type exclusively or a generic bullpup with ammunition sold separately. Keeping track of the amount of 2 or more different ammunition types would not be easy, as you would have to have more than one ammunition / clip counter as well. And how would you switch between ammunition types? Obviously the player would have to reload his weapon with the new clip, but how does the game know to load the one you want to use? Would it use 2 or 3 different reload-keys, or a toggle key like firing mode? Or did you mean that you could set the ammunition type at the trader in between waves?
Let's keep it simple, shall we?
I'd much rather have a couple of more useful class specific specials and some non-specific middle-ground toys that would be at least somewhat useful at the task of disposing rampant laboratory experiments trying to chew your face off. AK-47, M79 and the katana all sound like good start.
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Why do you hate the AK? Just because it isn't "pretty"? It is supposed to be a tool to dispose the unsightly terror that is the specimen threat. I do not care what it looks like, as long as it works, makes holes in things and is useful in later waves. I don't care if it is modeled after a rubber chicken and sings Crazy Frog out of tune while you operate it. I just wish I didn't have to switch to support from wave 6 onwards in every game I play because of the pitiful damage the bullpup is (in)capable of dealing to the larger targets.
Typical, as soon as there is even some hinting that there might be something that would make the life of a commando easier, people start complaining how ugly the new gun is or why their favourite gun didn't make it...
This is why we can't have nice things.
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My hating of the AK-47 is just because, personally, I don't like it. Never have. I just think it looks ugly, very un-sleek, and makes me think of Communists (Russians, Viet Cong, Chinese). It's a personal thing in that regard.
Why I'm not to keen on it in gameplay terms is that, mark my words, when it appears, the Bullpup won't be used anymore. It'll become a joke weapon. Because in all respects, it's an UPGRADE and REPLACEMENT of the Bullpup, not a parallel weapon. If it was like the Shotgun vs Hunting Shotgun where both have their niche, I'd be fine. But it's not...not even close...
Why have the sleek little high-capacity SMG-type gun when you can have an actual gun with accuracy and stopping power at the cost of refire rate (You shouldn't be spamming full-auto anyway, IMO!) and ammo capacity (Which is almost balanced by the stopping power; why do you need more ammo if one bullet does what 5 bullpup shots do!?).
It'd be like if someone added in a 'Napalm Thrower' that did twice the damage of the Flamethrower but had only 3/4 of the ammo: It'd make the Flamethrower obselete simply because it does more damage!
It's not just the AK-47 that I'm concerned about with this. If the M-14 Rifle is being added (Which is a weapon I personally LOVE!), it'll make the Lever Action Rifle an absolutely obselete weapon, and I don't like that... Sure, people will find a few pros to using the old Lever Rifle, but everyone will know, deep down, that the M-14 is a far better gun because of the hugely improved damage, regardless of other factors.
IMO, if they're adding the AK-47 and M-14, they need to do something to make the Bullpup and Lever Action Rifle worthwhile to use or they'll basically shove them into the 'there but useless' corner of the Trader's shop with the LAW. Sorry for the wall of text, but I felt the need to make a point here. My personal preference on the weapon doesn't matter as much to me as what they'll do to the games' weapon balance does!
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Hi everyone. I've been playing KF since it first came out, and lurking on this forums for sometime.
Back to topic then. Personally, I think that AK-47/AKM is leaps and bounds better choice for a new commando weapon than some boring looking nameless western assault rifle (I'm looking at you, AR-series and G3!). Culturally, AK has always been associated with common guys' struggle against The Man while the same couldn't be said about nameless western rifles. Technically, AK does it's job just as well as any other assault rifle. Aesthetically, AK has it's beauty in it's simple construction, robustness and masculine un-sleek lines.
I've had experience with east-german folding-stock AK and finnish modification RK-62, so I can assure you that they are not as inaccurate as some people like to stereotypicize them.
So yeah, it's personal.
Besides, some random AR modification or similar contraption makes me think the whole gun-porn scene, which frankly disgusts me. It's a gun for pete's sake.
Back to topic then. Personally, I think that AK-47/AKM is leaps and bounds better choice for a new commando weapon than some boring looking nameless western assault rifle (I'm looking at you, AR-series and G3!). Culturally, AK has always been associated with common guys' struggle against The Man while the same couldn't be said about nameless western rifles. Technically, AK does it's job just as well as any other assault rifle. Aesthetically, AK has it's beauty in it's simple construction, robustness and masculine un-sleek lines.
I've had experience with east-german folding-stock AK and finnish modification RK-62, so I can assure you that they are not as inaccurate as some people like to stereotypicize them.
So yeah, it's personal.
Besides, some random AR modification or similar contraption makes me think the whole gun-porn scene, which frankly disgusts me. It's a gun for pete's sake.
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well when you are a poor farmer who has never heard of the word gun and when you get handed one, and are told only how to load and pull the trigger, you don't need aiming. But for men who actually have experience with guns, they know how to use sights and be accurate.
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Oooh, do I see another finnish player here? Fan-f***ing-tastic. I thought I was all alone here.
Your point is pretty much what I have been trying to put across here, but sadly, people seem to have problem with "commie" weapons and forgetting that they serve the same purpose. To defeat the enemy. I have gotten weary to the weapon stereotypes and gun porn as well, but I seem to find the Автомат Калашникова quite aesthetically pleasing because of the wooden parts and the rugged, durable design. This beauty has character. Unlike its western plastic counterparts.
The reason why so many people have this impression that AK is inaccurate is because of the Hollywood movies where the American hero can just idly stroll towards hundreds of Kalashnikov-brandishing "evil commie insurgents that are threat to apple pie and the American dream" (not meant to be a derogatory comment about anyones home country, so forgive me, just using colours to add emphasis) and kill every single one of them without missing a shot using "the superior American assault rifle" without even bothering to aim. And does not take a scratch in the process. It is called the "Hollywood Effect".
Hmm? Would this be a good time to assume you are finnish too?
If this is so, then YAY! \o/
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Most guns are as accurate as the hands that shoot them. The AK is perfectly capable of being accurate, but a great deal of the people that use them (there are something like 10 million AK-47's in existence according to the video I posted) are untrained marksman, geurilla fighters, rebels in the 3rd world, etc. I think that's where the AK gets it's reputation for inaccuracy.
Personally, I find them to be great weapons and I look forward to their role in KF. I hope that commandos will be able to carry both the AK and the bullpup once it's implemented. Bullpup will be used for most crowd control situations, AK for the big guys.
Personally, I find them to be great weapons and I look forward to their role in KF. I hope that commandos will be able to carry both the AK and the bullpup once it's implemented. Bullpup will be used for most crowd control situations, AK for the big guys.
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QFT. Actually if I handed out M16s to all these guys I'd be doing the world a favor. All their guns would jam and malfunction under the abuse, lack of maintenance, and general terrible conditions they'd be exposed to on a minutely basis
And they still wouldn't be able to hit s*** anyway, and probably even be less accurate given how non user friendly M16 sights are compared to AK sights (until you get used to them).
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Hmm? Would this be a good time to assume you are finnish too?
If this is so, then YAY! \o/
sadly no. But i do travel to Central and Eastern Europe often because i have friends there, and each time i do i always get to fire a new weapon.
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