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New backspawn at Outpost (1041 WIP)

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Gladius

Grizzled Veteran
Oct 4, 2011
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#1
This new spawn volume pretty much ruins the map to be played by two players (holding - not kiting) and it makes it just annoying on larger teams. I'm all for making the game not too easy and keep the pressure up but these kind of badger spawns are just a pain in the neck. Outpost is as popular as it is because it had that holding position where the zeds are not constantly at closest engagement ranges or dropping on your head from a hole in the roof. Maybe TWI can realize some day that this map design philosophy that is mostly about hectic running around is not everyones cup of tea.

_outposthpzn0.jpg
 
#6
Spawning needs a decent amount of tweaking. I dont mind that sort of keep on your toes spawning but if its too regular it will upset established status quo for players. On Normal diff. its the exact opposite. Id like to see spawn shift away from targeting players who spawn camp and kill 50+% of the total zeds. Bc all that happens is if ppl try to join that person, that person then moves further forward so they can hog the kills. And because at 95% of the time on normal nothing is really dangerous enough to kill anyone this leapfrogging spawn area just keeps happening and ruins any sort of fun!

Maybe switch spawns to other areas esp. if players are spread out!
 
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#8
FoolishNinja;n2266701 said:
what, this was one of the best additions in this patch! Finally its not all about holding 2ways, but also watching your rear to not get overrun. Btw love the fog on outpost!
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i suspect you held this spot before with 6 players on HoE and got really bored because it wasnt already hectic enough :p
throw in the new abilities as well as the rediculous albino crawler and this spot is un-holdable
 
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#9
poultrygeist;n2266705 said:
i suspect you held this spot before with 6 players on HoE and got really bored because it wasnt already hectic enough :p
throw in the new abilities as well as the rediculous albino crawler and this spot is un-holdable
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I think mainstream players will agree with. Its the real pros that need spawning at that spot and at others... (for different map camp spots.) I dont think making these changes alongside the perk changes will help. That aside once players get to know the perk skill changes better and understanding the new spawn locations - this "shock" wont be so bad!

That said in the distant, far future you can probably expect TW to tone down the overall difficulty of the game as modders will have conjoured some of the most masochistic difficulties known to man (or zed)!
 
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#10
2Clicks;n2266708 said:
That said in the distant, far future you can probably expect TW to tone down the overall difficulty of the game as modders will have conjoured some of the most masochistic difficulties known to man (or zed)!
Click to expand...

i had to laugh hard at that..thanks :D

i just dont understand the headspace..if you dont like a spot..dont use it,or just kite.
its not easy to balance a map that has a few spots that can be camped and making it still a challenge.but TWI seems to forget that there is alot of casual non-MVP players about. not everyone hits every single shot to the face and knows all the tricks/combos.

now i understand that some people in this community consider "casuals" to be a pest in the game and want them gone..since this game is only for pros.
sorry for the sarcasm,couldnt help it
 
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#11
FoolishNinja;n2266701 said:
what, this was one of the best additions in this patch! Finally its not all about holding 2ways, but also watching your rear to not get overrun. Btw love the fog on outpost!
Click to expand...
Zerk spotted... pls.

Did you ever played holding that position with only two players and not a full team?

This game has no 1-way spots for single player holding. And it has very few 2-way spots that are fun to hold for only two players.

And now the most popular 2-way was ruined.

Being constantly harassed from all sides =/= good gameplay.
 
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#12
poultrygeist;n2266710 said:
i had to laugh hard at that..thanks :D

i just dont understand the headspace..if you dont like a spot..dont use it,or just kite.
its not easy to balance a map that has a few spots that can be camped and making it still a challenge.but TWI seems to forget that there is alot of casual non-MVP players about. not everyone hits every single shot to the face and knows all the tricks/combos.

now i understand that some people in this community consider "casuals" to be a pest in the game and want them gone..since this game is only for pros.
sorry for the sarcasm,couldnt help it
Click to expand...

Thats exactly right.

Some ppl dont like change. I guess they like to fire up KF. Get in a game with a map they love to play. And then kill things w.o any real challenge or surprises. I can understand the appeal. But sometimes it can get monotonous real fast. Esp. with an elite group! I like that the zeds are getting "better." I hope they can ambush players a little more. Maybe not critically but enough to really make players think about what they are doing. Thats the sort of game Id like to see. Ofc eventually - play the game long enough and nothing will be a surprise. :)

LOL yeah I know a few of those types. Thats why the inclusion of difficulties is a great filter. Wish other "coop" games had this! :)
 
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#13
You are still not getting the point here because you look only through the prism how you personally play the game. The point is that this new spawn point makes Outpost into what pretty much all the other maps already are. I'm all for a challenging game but I also want the variety in playstyles kept up. And this is where KF2's map design philosophy fails miserably so far. If you want to play solo it's all about kiting.
 
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#14
poultrygeist;n2266705 said:
i suspect you held this spot before with 6 players on HoE and got really bored because it wasnt already hectic enough :p
throw in the new abilities as well as the rediculous albino crawler and this spot is un-holdable
Click to expand...

unholdable? sorry i just played outpost 4p, and the backspawn isnt that kind of a big deal, cuz there spawn only small zeds and sometimes a siren, and that not constant.
Its good how it is, youre playing in the hardest difficulty, so it should be hard :D
 
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#15
Gladius;n2266715 said:
Zerk spotted... pls.

Did you ever played holding that position with only two players and not a full team?

This game has no 1-way spots for single player holding. And it has very few 2-way spots that are fun to hold for only two players.

And now the most popular 2-way was ruined.

Being constantly harassed from all sides =/= good gameplay.
Click to expand...

sorry, wrong guessed. I was playing SWAT on sui.

you can still hold it with 2 guys, just stay a bit behind and watch sometimes your back, not a gamebreak.
 
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#16
FoolishNinja;n2266804 said:
sorry, wrong guessed. I was playing SWAT on sui.
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Sure and you were holding that side alone for 10 waves... I would love to see that. What exactly made the new backspawn the overall gameplay experience for you better?

The point is that these kind of spawns are just harassment for full teams. When you play holding that position with just two players (yes, that is a thing) it's just a stupid pain in the neck that constantly forces you to turn around and will bite you in the worst moment. Is it now impossible to play there? Depends on your skill and there will always someone with crazy asian skill level come out of the woodworks and prove it can be done. The question is if it is more fun now. And this new spawn was clearly meant to bring the pressure up on 6 player games and that the devs doesn't care much about solo or duo is no real news but screwing up one of the few maps that are not all about doorzerk style and chickenrun wasn't necessary.
 
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#17
Gladius;n2266811 said:
Sure and you were holding that side alone for 10 waves... I would love to see that. What exactly made the new backspawn the overall gameplay experience for you better?

The point is that these kind of spawns are just harassment for full teams. When you play holding that position with just two players (yes, that is a thing) it's just a stupid pain in the neck that constantly forces you to turn around and will bite you in the worst moment. Is it now impossible to play there? Depends on your skill and there will always someone with crazy asian skill level come out of the woodworks and prove it can be done. The question is if it is more fun now. And this new spawn was clearly meant to bring the pressure up on 6 player games and that the devs doesn't care much about solo or duo is no real news but screwing up one of the few maps that are not all about doorzerk style and chickenrun wasn't necessary.
Click to expand...

Im not sure why youre so aggressive to me.

I like challenges, so I prefer to have some difficult to survive in this game.
And I didnt even say that i was playing alone for 10waves, I said that we were 4 player (2 on each side) and sometimes one guy just checked our rear, thats it. We werent even premade or something... Its not a disaster, it just adds a bit more difficulty to the game. Holding 2 sides is not a big deal, everybody can do that as 4-6p.
There are also some other improvements on Outpost. For example the indoor canteen is now a bit bigger and you have more space to walk. So you can try there to camp.
 
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#18
Please excuse me, I didn't mean to come along aggressive towards you. Sometimes I'm maybe a little bit bugged when people get into a discussion with me, without understanding what it is even about. I said 1 players now you come and say 2 with someone having the time to watch that additional direction... You know what I'm saying? I'm not talking about the game the way you play it.
 
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#19
FoolishNinja;n2266819 said:
Holding 2 sides is not a big deal, everybody can do that as 4-6p.
Click to expand...

No, everyone cannot do that. I've seen it with my own eyes :p.

It is a shame they added that to the spot imo. At the same time as long as they keep it down to small zeds and no poison crawlers or ragebuff clots (kinda like a vent opening) it should be manageable.
 
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