New aiming system in iron sights.

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Ron

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
910
0
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Ok i stole this idea from 1944 d-day fAQ section but i think its a pretty realistic idea, at the moment when you go into the ironsights your prefectly lined up so long range shots are simply a matter of putting the tip of the iron sights over the pixel and boom guy is dead a bit simplistic imho even half a head is a pretty easy target given it stays still two secounds. The devs over at 1944 d-day have this sort of idea

"
When a player aims down his iron sights, will the sights be automatically lined up for him so he has a clear sight picture straight away (front sight is aligned with rear sight, it is like this in all games I have played) or will the player have to line the sights up themselves?

Player needs to line them up and adjust. This may sound over the top, but it will require far more skill to become good at the game than with others. It's not good enough to assume you can simply go into iron sights and shoot. A lot of thought needs to go into how you approach your shots."


I say why not have it so when you go into the iron sights they're not prefectly lined up straight away maybe slightly off, not so much that short range shots miss if your aiming straight at someones chest but enough to put long range shots off then in order to get the sights lined up for the long range shots you have to use the mouse wheel to adjust the way your looking down the ironsights. It could also help mg's alot since they wouldnt be out shot all the time by laser like rifles. I obviously have to think about it in more detail but its defiantly something worth considering.
 

SiC-Disaster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 16, 2005
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www.tangodown.nl
well it sounds promising, but if its not worked out perfectly its just gonna be a nuisance and might stop people from playing.
this is not something that has to be done 'good enough', but perfect, IMO, it should not have any bugs or quirks.
but i like it
 

Ron

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
910
0
0
SiC-Disaster said:
well it sounds promising, but if its not worked out perfectly its just gonna be a nuisance and might stop people from playing.
this is not something that has to be done 'good enough', but perfect, IMO, it should not have any bugs or quirks.
but i like it
Yea i know it would have to done right tbh i dont expect TW to even consider this for this version of ro but maybe for UE3 version they might or even one of the mods might consider it, but like you i think its a great idea and it would really add to the immersion and realism of the firefights, any other thoughts anyone.
 

Monkwarrior

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
1,144
2
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Another disadvantige would be that it would favour the run&gun behaviour of smg's. While the rifleman is struggling with aiming he's killed by a spraying smg-player who has no need to go into IS. If you'r a real boltplayer you would know how frustrating that can be.

Monk.
 

Ron

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
910
0
0
Monkwarrior said:
Another disadvantige would be that it would favour the run&gun behaviour of smg's. While the rifleman is struggling with aiming he's killed by a spraying smg-player who has no need to go into IS. If you'r a real boltplayer you would know how frustrating that can be.

Monk.
Well yes of course i had thought of that but at close range you wouldnt have to adjust it since the sights would only be slightly off so would only affect you greatly at medium to long range, also you could speed up the transition to iron sights greatly to balance it since you'd be the one lining up the sights after you bring the gun up thus in the end good players would still be shooting accuratly in the same time presently only maybe not so consistently.
Also my other idea on this issues was to increase the recoil for smgers greatly if they're moving and hipping or even a slow down if they decide to move and hip bit more realistic then having strafing and runing hippers we do atm then to counter this maybe decrease the recoil a bit on smgs in ironsights.
 
I like this idea, but it sounds a little complicated, maybe I'm just not reading it right.

Personally I thought just having the weapon slightly off when you go into IS and then have it gradually align to center would be good, so you would have to wait a sec before your character got it aligned enough for a long range shot.

Then if you turn too fast it would be off again since the fore sight and rear sight do move independently since your balancing the weapon with two hands. Then you would have to wait again before your character aligned it again.

I mean, if you got a gun, try bringing it up to iron sights and see if its perfectly aligned every time, its not, it should be off to begin with and then slowly align.Then try moving the gun quickly while keeping them aligned, you can do it if you move slow, but not quickly.

When I hold my Yugo Mauser (Same as the Kar 98K but from Yugoslavia) and I look down the iron sights I see that the fore sight is usually a little above the rear sight and then I align for the shot pretty quickly (And I'm a pretty good shot too), if I turn slowly I can keep them aligned pretty easily while I turn, but if I turn with any speed the fore sight goes up a little again, and then it also has a small amount of jerky sway (Not smooth sway like in CoD, but quick and jerky), so then when I stop again I have to adjust again before I can make a shot. So that makes distance shots a little harder because that small amount of sway that I get means distance shots could be really off, but closer shosts would be possible.

In the game as of now, as long as your in IS it doesn't matter how fast you turn or if your moving, the whole gun will sway as it should but the fore and rear sight remain perfectly aligned and allways at the center of your screen without and seperate fore and rear sight movement.

But I also admit that everyone will have different results when trying my experiment, some may find the fore sight drops for them, or the rear sight is harder to keep steady, some may have no problem at all. But the two sights are on different ends of the gun, and for a normal individual they WILL move seperately.

I think adding this would also give heavy MG gunners a little bit more of an advantage against normal sterloks since most MG gunners are taken out pretty easily by what is suspost to be the simpelest soldier on the feild.

You could probably do it if you were a trained professional, but those guys out on the front back then didn't have training like they do today, they were average guys fighting for their country.

I was just suprised there wasn't some sort of seperate fore and rear sight sway when in IS. Thats just my two cents (more like a dollar), its okay the way it is too and I wont complain if it doesn't change.
 
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SiC-Disaster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 16, 2005
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Monkwarrior said:
Another disadvantige would be that it would favour the run&gun behaviour of smg's. While the rifleman is struggling with aiming he's killed by a spraying smg-player who has no need to go into IS. If you'r a real boltplayer you would know how frustrating that can be.

Monk.

aye, that it is. thats why i like the way the gun doesnt point at the centre of the screen every time, it makes it a bit harder to spray and pray:rolleyes:
but usually riflemen try to stay away from smg men
 

Avenger

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 24, 2006
497
0
0
This is a great idea. I had suggested it in another thread, but sometimes I think no one reads my posts.

If you could bring up the iron sights quicker than you do now, I think it would actually make the rifles more effective. The sights might be crooked at first, but at least you'd have a decent idea of where you're aiming even before the sights were aligned.​
 

jlamb

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 9, 2006
17
0
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There was a mutator for the UT mod Infiltration that did this (among other things) called RealAim.

Idle breathing causes the weapon to wobble slightly, bringing the sights out of alignment. Shots would always go where the barrel pointed but would naturally end up in a very slight conic spread, which of course is more significant with shorter weapons. You can hold down the "shoulder weapon" key to steady your weapon, locking them into alignment for up to several seconds.

Mouse movement leads with the front of the weapon, dragging the rear behind. This is proportionate to mouse speed, so moving slowly barely impacts alignment while quick jerking motions throw your shots way over the target. Of course, since you can clear see where the barrel is actually pointing, it is still possible to make jerk shots instinctually, but it takes a much higher familiarity with the weapon.

A couple of the weapons even have momentum built into their movement, so it takes an almost unnoticable timeframe for the gun model to catch up to the mouse speed, and will continue moving for a slight distance after you stop (again, only impacted with really quick jerky mouse movements).

All this was a very fluid part of the weapon handling, and alignment really only mattered when you were attempting precision shots at long distances.
 

Rameusb5

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
871
1
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Jlamb's idea sounds good, but complicated.


How about this instead, which simply uses the "rifle-sway" game mechanic we have now.

When you first bring up IS, there is a MOMENT (~1 sec) of large rifle sway, which rapidly decreases to NO rifle sway (which represents you getting the sights lined up). Rifle sway would then increase as it does now. For the sake of argument, let's call this "initial aim."

In addition, any time you move your aimpoint (pan with the rifle in IS mode) significantly, the "initial aim" is restarted. Ideally, "initial aim" would only kick in when the aimpoint is moved dramatically, or even better would be increased in proportion to how quickly the rifle is moved, but that might get complicated to code.
 

Mormegil

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 21, 2005
4,178
574
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Nargothrond
I remember suggesting something like this in the mod days, or at least supporting an idea like this.

The consensus opinion from people who actually shoot rifles was, that it doesn't take very long at all to allign IS, due to "cheek weld."

They say that a soldier trained with their rifle can pretty much instantly, and easily line up IS, by putting their cheek against the same spot on their stock. There really isn't any time for adjustment, or wait time on this.

Secondly, the Devs have stated they want simplistic reality. If it was simple in real life (as would be lining up IS for a soldier), it should be simple in game.


Anyways, that's how it turned out last time.
 

Ron

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 9, 2006
910
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0
Well some of the ideas werent what i had in mind but i do like them a simplified version of what i was saying.
 

Kirq

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 18, 2006
488
95
0
42
Rzeszow , Poland
I love the idea Ron. Would be great cause right now bolt rifles are to accurate. It is a bit unrealistic to hit enemys head sticking out over a hill 100 m away but it is pretty easy right now.