Agreed. In addition to that, The G43 also has a slightly shorter barrel than the Kar.
Need to ask a question about the G43
- Thread starter Hunt3r.j2
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Well, according the Wikipedia, the K98 had a muzzle velocity of 760 m/s whereas the G41/43 shot at 775 m/s. Take that as you will, I don't have the oppurtunity at the moment to find better sources. Somehow they give higher muzzle velocities despite having a shorter barrel. Maybe a difference in rifling? I really dont' know.
stigmata said:
Definately! its force of habit, going with what you know, and the fact that they trained with that weapon and know it inside out, and know very little about other weapons they have not been trained on.
And you gotta figure, when you are forced to trust your life to a bit of kit, you are going to grow rather attached to it..
Solo4114 said:
Yeah that puzzles me too, logic dictates it should be the other way around.. the Kar has a longer barrel and semi's bleed off gases to cycle the bolt, and its the exact same ammo, the Kar seems the logical winner.
So if it really is true that the G43 manages a better muzzle velocity, i'd love to hear how that works, that has to be interesting!
I'd have to assume that the shorter barrel could somehow mean less of the initial velocity is lost due to less friction as the bullet passes down the barrel. Obviously any given bullet when fired dow 2 barrels of different legnths is going to spend more of its energy going down the longer barrel as any contact with the barrel, rifled or not, is going to rob it of some of the initial force, a shorter barrel and the journey is that much shorter meaning that any contact that does happen, happens less, if you see what i mean?
Most of the time we're all, oh look, rifle, longer rifle and higher muzzle velocity, but we often forget to take into account that different rifles often fire a different round, even if it's the same calibre, i mean the countries all have their own methods of manufacturing, the starkest example being the 7.62 i think it is, which has the russian made (Somewhat "original") variant and the "NATO" variant, which are completely incompatable with eachother (Last i heard anyway)
The differences between the KAR98k and the G41-43 are negligable anyway, a matter of what was it? 15 feet p/sec? I've got a funny feeling if you get behind either rifle your shoulder will start to hurt after a while, and if you get infront of either rifle you're gonna drop like a sack of spuds.
Most of the time we're all, oh look, rifle, longer rifle and higher muzzle velocity, but we often forget to take into account that different rifles often fire a different round, even if it's the same calibre, i mean the countries all have their own methods of manufacturing, the starkest example being the 7.62 i think it is, which has the russian made (Somewhat "original") variant and the "NATO" variant, which are completely incompatable with eachother (Last i heard anyway)
The differences between the KAR98k and the G41-43 are negligable anyway, a matter of what was it? 15 feet p/sec? I've got a funny feeling if you get behind either rifle your shoulder will start to hurt after a while, and if you get infront of either rifle you're gonna drop like a sack of spuds.
No.
Its quite simple really. Longer barrel means higher velocity! Friction doesnt come into it!
Also I really cant beleive the g43 has a higher muzzel velocity. Im not saying that isnt the case, Im just saying I cant beleive it!
Its quite simple really. Longer barrel means higher velocity! Friction doesnt come into it!
Also I really cant beleive the g43 has a higher muzzel velocity. Im not saying that isnt the case, Im just saying I cant beleive it!
Lol that got more attention than i expected.
I got the data form an encyclopedia of WW2 firearms by Chris Bishop. It puts the G41 and G43 at 775m/s and the K98k at 755m/s. It could very well be that it's a typo but you can find the same number in a few other sources.
It could have something to do with the rifling esp. the twist rate. I know that plays quite a role with some firearms (see e.g. the various M16s and their ammo). The K98k has a "Drall
I got the data form an encyclopedia of WW2 firearms by Chris Bishop. It puts the G41 and G43 at 775m/s and the K98k at 755m/s. It could very well be that it's a typo but you can find the same number in a few other sources.
It could have something to do with the rifling esp. the twist rate. I know that plays quite a role with some firearms (see e.g. the various M16s and their ammo). The K98k has a "Drall
I got this from an article in the German Visier gun magazine. It was about the very young snipers that served in the Normandy campaign. Apparently some were trained from day one on the G43 and became actually quite proficientit. They were pretty good hedgerow shooters but trained poorly in tactics and very often kept on firing while an experienced sniper would've switched positions and prepare an escape route.
Some good read here:
http://www-cgsc.army.mil/carl/resources/csi/doubler/doubler.asp
There was an article here, too, but I can't seem to find it anymore:
http://search.eb.com/dday/
I could see the rifling/friction entering into things, but I'd expect the gas bleed to have more of an effect.
Or it could just be a typo or related to different quality rounds/powder.
I'm pretty sure all three weapons were chambered to theoretically fire the exact same round, though. Not just calibre, but bullet weight and powder load too. It doesn't make sense to have three separate weapons performing the same role, but using three different sets of ammo. Better to harmonize your ammunition needs for easier manufacturing and supply. I could see having a shorter round for an assault rifle or a pistol, but not three longarms.
Or it could just be a typo or related to different quality rounds/powder.
I'm pretty sure all three weapons were chambered to theoretically fire the exact same round, though. Not just calibre, but bullet weight and powder load too. It doesn't make sense to have three separate weapons performing the same role, but using three different sets of ammo. Better to harmonize your ammunition needs for easier manufacturing and supply. I could see having a shorter round for an assault rifle or a pistol, but not three longarms.
Friction doesen't matter, the longer barrel will allways produce more velocity when we are dealing with expanding gasses (even compressed air), the more time the projectile spends inside a barrel, the more speed the expanding gasses will propell it to, and the longer the barrel, the more time it will spend getting accelerated.
But it fires quicker!
I personally would have opted for a semi automatic during that time. Be it garand > springfield, g43 > k98 or SVT > Mosin!
I personally would have opted for a semi automatic during that time. Be it garand > springfield, g43 > k98 or SVT > Mosin!
I'm not much of a semi auto guy (#1 bolt #2 mg) but the semi auto's are absolutely excellent choke point defender guns. If you find yourself behind good cover looking over a choke point and have a 10 round clip 
...Just remember to count your shots and reload during lulls in the fighting and you will be at the top of the score list.
the g43 has kind of a psychological affect as well, you can pick out the k98's and Nagants firing all around but that g43 is a screecher and in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing you may come to fear that noise.
...Just remember to count your shots and reload during lulls in the fighting and you will be at the top of the score list.the g43 has kind of a psychological affect as well, you can pick out the k98's and Nagants firing all around but that g43 is a screecher and in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing you may come to fear that noise.
I can tell you in the sniper maps you could go days without hearing a person fire a semi-auto sniper rifle. Not that it's distance related (in Sniper_square_B3 no more then 250 meters max), it's just that angles and target size come into play.
Example: In Sniper_square_B3 on the Russian side there is a position on the third floor of the back apartments that is almost impossible to hit. I think you culd pling away all day with the semi-auto sniper and never get the russkie bastage, but with the bolt there is less spread. Still, with a bolt it usually takes me 2-3 shots before I open his head like a ripe melon.
Usually the new players to the map use a semi the first time they come on. With it's distict report the first thing you hear on viops, or see on the chat bar is, "Who the fark is using a semi?!?"
Example: In Sniper_square_B3 on the Russian side there is a position on the third floor of the back apartments that is almost impossible to hit. I think you culd pling away all day with the semi-auto sniper and never get the russkie bastage, but with the bolt there is less spread. Still, with a bolt it usually takes me 2-3 shots before I open his head like a ripe melon.
Usually the new players to the map use a semi the first time they come on. With it's distict report the first thing you hear on viops, or see on the chat bar is, "Who the fark is using a semi?!?"
Just to clarify, this is true only up to a certain point. Eventually, the force provided by the expanding gasses will drop as they disperse throughout the barrel. There will be a point where the force provided by the expanding gas is less than the force of the friciton in the barrel. You'll probably never run into this with rifle rounds, but I could see a carbine using a pistol round possibly having this issue if designed poorly.
In everday use, I know it's an issue with paintball and airsoft guns. Back when paintball was just getting popular a few friends were getting super-long barrels (like 16+ inches) and were starting to see decreases in range and accuracy.
If you gonna be killing other snipers, machine gunners and such go with the bolt action if you plan on running and gunning (i.e. taking the objective instead of supporting other people who are capping, Danzig comes to mind here) go with the semi.
But a sniper with a semi is just gonna be effective while he's running and gunning. Once you stop a competent enemy sniper will quickly put a cap in you.
And people really notice sniper kills, so I've noticed if the enemy sniper is like a hipshooting god or a hipshooting hax0r it's really gonna demoralize/annoy/piss off/frustrate a lot of people on the team. So even if he kills less people than other enemy players, he's still gonna have a psychological impact. Pretty neat stuff.
my 2 pesos
And yeah semi sniper rifles are for wussies.
Sorry to revive a dead thread, but honestly G43 should have at least equal performance in numbers compared to the Soviet's SVT. Quite possibly I need far more practice with the semi automatic rifles. When Darkest Hour comes out lets all join in on the fun and use Garands!
Also, I have spent much time playing with the G43 and SVT lately, and I can attest, the G43 has this very funky recoil. This is most exaggerated when you use the sniper variant, which SHOULD be a carbon copy of the Iron Sight G43 with a scope. It goes off to the left and up. I also notice that getting ANYONE with just their head sticking out with semi automatic snipers in general is impossible. The SVT tends to have a VERY small front post, which makes it hard for me to get longer range shots on target. However, since I play mostly Danzig, medium range-close range is what I engage at, and yes, I can tell you the SVT has a better time in hipshooting compared to the Gewehr. But anyway, I really don't encounter those ranges that much.
Also, I have spent much time playing with the G43 and SVT lately, and I can attest, the G43 has this very funky recoil. This is most exaggerated when you use the sniper variant, which SHOULD be a carbon copy of the Iron Sight G43 with a scope. It goes off to the left and up. I also notice that getting ANYONE with just their head sticking out with semi automatic snipers in general is impossible. The SVT tends to have a VERY small front post, which makes it hard for me to get longer range shots on target. However, since I play mostly Danzig, medium range-close range is what I engage at, and yes, I can tell you the SVT has a better time in hipshooting compared to the Gewehr. But anyway, I really don't encounter those ranges that much.
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Last night i was playing Danzig with a bolt sniper, got joined by 2 rifleman in the infamous russian sniper building. Each time i died there was one of them picking up my rifle, after they both had snipers and it became clear nobody but MajesticO was capping i decided, screw it, time to help.
Suicided, selected semi-auto sniper and went for it. After we both swept through and cleared the bridges, MajesticO took comm centre and went for the langer. I never once fired off the hip but i took down every german who came my way and single handedly took the langermarkt on my own with a semi-auto sniper.
Conclusions made:
Semi's are good when used at mid ranges and the action is fast paced, every other time, take a bolt.
I was very very lucky not to get naded, but thanks to having a scope on my gun, it was like running round with a scoped assault rifle.
Wo0t and Doomed don't hack, cos i'm not the best but i managed to take them down without any trouble.
Enjoy RO! ^_^
Suicided, selected semi-auto sniper and went for it. After we both swept through and cleared the bridges, MajesticO took comm centre and went for the langer. I never once fired off the hip but i took down every german who came my way and single handedly took the langermarkt on my own with a semi-auto sniper.
Conclusions made:
Semi's are good when used at mid ranges and the action is fast paced, every other time, take a bolt.
I was very very lucky not to get naded, but thanks to having a scope on my gun, it was like running round with a scoped assault rifle.
Wo0t and Doomed don't hack, cos i'm not the best but i managed to take them down without any trouble.
Enjoy RO! ^_^
I think it's way too easy to squeeze off rapid shots with a hipped semi-auto in general. Because of that semi-auto rifles are often enough better in CQB than the submachine guns which is kinda annyoing. One 7.62x54mm round seems to throw around a 4.something kg SVT less than a 7.62x25mm does to a 5.something PPSh-41.
It allready has better performance, someone posted the current code, and the G43 has more accuracy than the SVT, the real problem with it is that most people (myself included) dont like the sights on the thing, they work, but they are not as user freindly as the sight on the SVT in most peoples opinion.
I've gotten fairly good with it though, but its still a tad cumbersome for thouse long range shots, but its a matter of practice really.
Ofcourse the recoil is borked, but it is on every single weapon in RO, so that pretty much goes without saying.