My opinions about the new update

[outofrealman]

(I only tested the changes on several solo suicidal games on farm at this moment.)

MAC-10

Firstly, we have a new weapon for firebug, MAC-10, both firebug (I'm 5lv) and sharpshooter can decap any small mobs in one shot to the head. When playing as firebug, the bullet from MAC-10 can set mobs on fire.

Also, little bug here, burning stalkers from the MAC-10 will NEVER die LOL. I had a wave while I just set every stalker on fire on purpose and let them burn till I clean up everything else, they still dancing, burning.

And, only two bullets is needed to down a solo-suicidal scrake, WOW! Only one out of 10 of them managed to rage before they die. Only husks, scrakes and fleshpounds (and stalkers LOL) can survive one fire bug MAC-10 shot on solo-suicidal.

The MAC-10 can also be useful side arms for other perks, as it is not expensive, and it only weight 4 blocks. (Example: demo with M32+pipe+MAC-10) It takes 2-3 body shots to kill suicidal crawlers and two shots to decap anything under bloat. (From crawlers up to bloat, their head health is 44, but I need 2 shots to decap them while I can kill crawlers in 3 shots, so may be the dmg of the MAC-10 is 41-43?)

The MAC-10 makes the fire bug is also playable on solo mode, yeah, now the firebug can also be a better rambo perk, but I dont see any game breaking at this point on mutiplayer as fire bug can only do their job (weakening the mobs) better. They cannot kill big zeds effectively on their own.

SCAR

The change to the SCAR is not good IMO. I always the SCAR is having too much ammo like the M14, not too much damage... why reduce the damage that much to make it a nearly pointless gun? After the patch, BOTH ak and scar kill crawers in 2 shots, stalkers in 3. The SCAR used to be able to kill any small mobs using one less bullet on body shots, but now the SCAR can only beat the ak in terms of weight and red-dot sight. (gameplay-wise) Most suituations ak do better, if you want to pop some heads, ak gives you 37 shots, SCAR gives 25, if you want to help gunning down raging fps or scrakes, ak is better, as SCAR dont do that much damage per shot, and again, ak has 12 more bullets. (may be the DPS of SCAR is still higher, but if you have to shoot the whole mag, I think ak "may probably better" then the SCAR)


Xbow
What the hell? A 6lv ss can spawn with a $600 weapon!? Keep killing yourself before the wave starts gives you $600 for one life. WOW! Just make it $2500 and give discount to sharpshooters!!! Why make it cost $800 and being able to sell for $600!? 6lv support buys a huntty for $224, and 6lv commando buy the ak for $299. And both of them should spawn as sharpshooter and then sell the xbow for $600 at the end of wave 1 and get an extra $376 and $301 respectively.


M14
Hell, the M14 is finally nerfed. The total mag is halfed, you only have 160 shots. And 6lv ss cannot kill stalkers by one body shot. Gorefasts cannot be stunned by the M14 anymore, but if you keep shooting the gorefast, you can still prevent him from attacking you like you use katana against scrakes. The M14 can now only stun stalkers and clots. No other changes as far as I tested. And this change will not affect the players who will not spam bullets using the M14, you still have more than enough ammo, and you can still do what you can before the patch. And I would say only give the M14 around 80 shots in total is better. As it only weights 8 blocks after the update, you can still have side arms. M14 shooters should not be able to use only one weapon the entire game.

The LAW
Now this is a real weapon. The radius is really, really, really large. And may be because of the damage bonus from the demo perk, it does GOOD damage. (At lese on solo suicidal) I locked like 30 zeds inside one of the building on farm, and when the door breaks, I killed 22 zeds at once with one rocket. And the base damage is surely incrased. From kf wiki, the LAW do 850 damage before the update. Even with the demo bonus, it only dose 1360 damage. But I can kill a solo-suicidal scrake with one direct hit. (solo-cuicidal scrake has 1750 health with explosive resistance)

However, if you choose to use the LAW, you cant even buy pipebombs. Will any demo really want to use it in mutiplayer? Not for me at least. The whole wave I only have 15 shots!!!! And when should I use my rocket? I believe I am not able to kill any scrakes or fleshpounds on 6-man games with one shot. And sharpshooter still being able to one-shot killing fleshpounds. So when? When should I use my rockets? To kill 5 clots? Yeah, it will be really useful (I meant it) to clear EVERYTHING when a door is broken. But normally you dont want this to happen, right? And not many maps can let you use the LAW to clear mobs when a door breaks. For example, manor, no doors in the tunnel. Foundry or office, you dont have the "safe distance" required to use the LAW. You end up hurtting yourself or blow yourself up.

Not a bad change, but I think this is not enough to make the LAW useful on suicidal.


I may add more when I found out more.
What about you guys? What do you thing about the changes?

Edit: Ah yes, I must add the followings:
Zerker is still nearly unplayable at later waves.
Chainsaw is still useless.
Machete is still useless.
Number of pipebombs is still unlimited.

 

[Salad Snake]

I agree with you on just about everything here. I get the feeling they nerfed the Scar because it allows you to carry a katana with it, but if that's the case they should have just made the bullpup or Ak (not both) weigh 5 blocks and have the Scar weigh 6. Also, they could have reduced the mag number. But instead they nerf it in the only way it DIDN'T need, instead of the numerous ways it did. The Bullpup/AK combo is clearly superior unless you plan to Beserko (Yes, I did just make that term up, it sounded better then Commandic ).

The Mac10, excellent weapon. You said we wouldn't be disappointed with the new firebug weapon and you were right. Great job. The only thing that needs fixing is the ironsight bug (hip-shoot a burst then ironsight immediately after to see what I mean) and the fact that the 3rd person firing sound is that of the AK.

L.A.W. could do with a slight weight reduction so that you can conceivably carry pipes with it. Or even a handcannon (though probably not handcannon and pipes). Nice to know it's gotten the buff it deserves, but since Xbow is the The Answer to any of the large targets....

Which brings us to Sharpshooter. It boggles the mind how you guys thought it was neccessary to nerf Commando and yet only nerf the EBR. The entire perk was OP, and still is. The pistol/Duel Handcannon combo is killer with just a little practice, while the Xbow is the aforementioned Answer when things aren't going the team's way.


As for the things that are "missing" (things most of the community agrees needs changing): Chainsaw HS multiplier, Zerker survivability buff, and a Medic nerf, the "white sky" bug on Farm, and the heal tool bug where it gets stuck on the heal tool slot after syringing someone else. Donno if the duel weapon ammo bugs are fixed, but if they are that's great.


Don't mean to sound overly critical, it's still a good update. Just thought I'd list down my thoughts on what other changes are needed for this great game.

 

[outofrealman]

9mm is NEVER the answer when a group of zed is up at your face unless you're sharpshooter. It does nearly no damage to zeds on suicidal. Firing rate is limited, and you need two head shots to decap (not killing) suicidal small zeds. Even if you are a sharpshooter, you cannot miss any head or you will be hurt badly.

What I still thinking is they should remove the 9mm from sharpshooter, and the bonus damage. In return increase the head shot dmg bonus. If a player hits every heads, he deserved to be able to solo or do whatever he wants. And I have never seen anyone who can do it. Sooner or later you will miss some heads or get grab by a sneaky clot and get hurt.


Xbow sharpshooter is the answer to big zeds, but not nearly as good as other perks on crowd control. Just remove the 9mm (really!) from the perk and everything is fine. You only get 96 shots of cannon and 40 shots for xbow, you are not really able to solo the wave as one shot of 9mm will only decap small zeds in that case.

And about the LAW, I would like to see it become 10 blocks like the xbow.

 

[geronimo789]

In fact, I too like the LAW now. At first I tought it sucked as much as before, but then i found out that the radius was OMFGHOLY****DAMN-normous. The damage is quite good with demo lv6. Only downside is you're now twice as likely to blow yourself up. It has become a very situational weapon, and it will absolutely shine when used right (long hallways, raised terrain, spawnpoints and gathering place).

On the other hand, has anyone noticed the katana got slightly nerfed ? I swear I was able to one hit kill a husk by alternate attacking it on the head with any class. It just feels less powerful to me. (maybe my mind is playing tricks on me)

 

[Fang]

The only thing that needs fixing is the ironsight bug (hip-shoot a burst then ironsight immediately after to see what I mean) and the fact that the 3rd person firing sound is that of the AK.

You forgot about the left wrist that looks deformed, which also needs fixing.

 

[Evilsod]

The LAW
Now this is a real weapon. The radius is really, really, really large. And may be because of the damage bonus from the demo perk, it does GOOD damage. (At lese on solo suicidal) I locked like 30 zeds inside one of the building on farm, and when the door breaks, I killed 22 zeds at once with one rocket. And the base damage is surely incrased. From kf wiki, the LAW do 850 damage before the update. Even with the demo bonus, it only dose 1360 damage. But I can kill a solo-suicidal scrake with one direct hit. (solo-cuicidal scrake has 1750 health with explosive resistance)

However, if you choose to use the LAW, you cant even buy pipebombs. Will any demo really want to use it in mutiplayer? Not for me at least. The whole wave I only have 15 shots!!!! And when should I use my rocket? I believe I am not able to kill any scrakes or fleshpounds on 6-man games with one shot. And sharpshooter still being able to one-shot killing fleshpounds. So when? When should I use my rockets? To kill 5 clots? Yeah, it will be really useful (I meant it) to clear EVERYTHING when a door is broken. But normally you dont want this to happen, right? And not many maps can let you use the LAW to clear mobs when a door breaks. For example, manor, no doors in the tunnel. Foundry or office, you dont have the "safe distance" required to use the LAW. You end up hurtting yourself or blow yourself up.

Just to correct a couple of things. LAW does 850 splash damage and 200 impact damage. I think it gets a bit extra from a headshot too (impact only). While i can't account for why it would still kill a Scrake in 1 shot, the Scrakes 50% explosives resistance i believe was a myth. 1 thing i'm not sure about is whether or not it deals double damage to Fleshpounds. I guess i could test it in sandbox mode on a doom2 map...

But honestly i don't really know what to make of this weapon. I can say after a game on Manor 6man Hard that its explosion radius is damn huge now but thats really all there is to say. In the situation you mentioned, blowing up a mob of specs as they broke through a door, the Grenade Launchers would be considerably more productive. It would take 2 grenades to match the damage but the point is you can fire upto 7 in the time it would take the LAW to even reload once and 7 is enough to kill practically anything... the LAW rendered even more moot by the fact a Pipebomb in front of the door would've probably blown them all up anyway.

On Manor it was good fun, i could stand on the side of the cave, raised up above everyone with a clear view of the bottleneck so i could blow up a large amount of specimens... but that is all its capable of. It only has 15 rounds, not enough to use frequently, or even infrequently. It weighs 14 so you can't even take a Pipe Bomb. But most of all, Manor had a location that allowed me to see over my allies and over the specimens attacking in a position where i could hit the vast majority of the attacking force with it. No maps really offer that and without that the LAW is more likely to kill you than enemies... the chances of it hitting an ally or an enemy at the front instead of blowing up at the back are slim on most maps.

I'd label the LAW now as a gimmick. Still not really any use but a nice bit of fun.

 

[Galslacht]

2 bullets from the solo Firebug's MAC to down a scrake seems ridiculous - if this is true.

 

[scary ghost]

Just to correct a couple of things. LAW does 850 splash damage and 200 impact damage. I think it gets a bit extra from a headshot too (impact only). While i can't account for why it would still kill a Scrake in 1 shot, the Scrakes 50% explosives resistance i believe was a myth. 1 thing i'm not sure about is whether or not it deals double damage to Fleshpounds. I guess i could test it in sandbox mode on a doom2 map...

But honestly i don't really know what to make of this weapon. I can say after a game on Manor 6man Hard that its explosion radius is damn huge now but thats really all there is to say. In the situation you mentioned, blowing up a mob of specs as they broke through a door, the Grenade Launchers would be considerably more productive. It would take 2 grenades to match the damage but the point is you can fire upto 7 in the time it would take the LAW to even reload once and 7 is enough to kill practically anything... the LAW rendered even more moot by the fact a Pipebomb in front of the door would've probably blown them all up anyway.

On Manor it was good fun, i could stand on the side of the cave, raised up above everyone with a clear view of the bottleneck so i could blow up a large amount of specimens... but that is all its capable of. It only has 15 rounds, not enough to use frequently, or even infrequently. It weighs 14 so you can't even take a Pipe Bomb. But most of all, Manor had a location that allowed me to see over my allies and over the specimens attacking in a position where i could hit the vast majority of the attacking force with it. No maps really offer that and without that the LAW is more likely to kill you than enemies... the chances of it hitting an ally or an enemy at the front instead of blowing up at the back are slim on most maps.

I'd label the LAW now as a gimmick. Still not really any use but a nice bit of fun.

Fleshpounds don't take extra damage from law. I copied the code in the below post. While it is before the patch, none of the specimen code was changed so it still applies. 2x to pipes and frags, 1.25x to nade launches, and 1.0x to LAW.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=622895&postcount=23

I took on a couple of FPs before on solo suicidal with the LAW to see how quickly I could drop them. That video is in the 2nd half of this post:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=632103&postcount=15

I also don't know why LAW gets head shot bonuses. The impact damage should not be factored in unless the rocket/nade is a dud. I made this video prior to the patch as well but it also still applies post patch since the only LAW change was a bigger explosion radius. By the way, Demos have always received a damage boost with the LAW since the level up patch and now receive an extra bonus for the Impact Damage which again, shouldn't be accounted fro unless the rocket was a dud. Given how I could 1 shot a solo beginner patriarch (2000hp) with 1 rocket and a solo suicidal patriarch (7000hp) with 3 rockets, I have no idea how that much damage could be done with a rocket even with the extra damage.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=631584&postcount=8

Yeah, the scrake resistance is a myth. People need to stop taking that kf-wiki as 100% accurate.
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=632135&postcount=17

 

[Foxyfired]

I really love the MAC 10 and the LAW now ^^
But the mac 10 dont level up firebug when you use an other perk and when you kill zeds before they set on fire... :S

MYYYYY SCAR D': useless...more useless than the AK
Their is no achievement....
Personnaly characters from the DLC are less interesting than the others
It was a good style to have clothes like skeletton or armor.
And personnaly i dislike the silent acccesory to the mac 10, it is more interesting without it

 

[-[SiN]-bswearer]

most of what was said by the OP is good, however there's still something i keep stressing about the SCAR "nerf"

people, use the scope? a level6 commando using a SCAR can still take out clots, crawlers, gorefasts, bloats and stalkers in one, count em ONE headshot. it gets a decap in one shot and they almost instantly bleed out. the job of the perk is to take out these masses of "lower" tier zeds. nothing has changed in that department as it's still a piece of cake for skilled commandos to handle these guys with the SCAR. the only that has changed is now the commando can't rely upon going full-auto and spamming a mag of SCAR bullets into a FP/Scrake to kill em (at least not in suicidal). but imo there's nothing wrong about that. it's the SS job to take those guys out so you do your job and find good players who really know how to play the role of SS.

 

[outofrealman]

most of what was said by the OP is good, however there's still something i keep stressing about the SCAR "nerf"

people, use the scope? a level6 commando using a SCAR can still take out clots, crawlers, gorefasts, bloats and stalkers in one, count em ONE headshot. it gets a decap in one shot and they almost instantly bleed out. the job of the perk is to take out these masses of "lower" tier zeds. nothing has changed in that department as it's still a piece of cake for skilled commandos to handle these guys with the SCAR. the only that has changed is now the commando can't rely upon going full-auto and spamming a mag of SCAR bullets into a FP/Scrake to kill em (at least not in suicidal). but imo there's nothing wrong about that. it's the SS job to take those guys out so you do your job and find good players who really know how to play the role of SS.

What I wanted to say is now the ak do over 95% of the job BETTER than the SCAR. Small zeds like clots, stalkers and crawers die in one head shot. If you need to gun down gorefasts, it takes the among of bullets to do it no matter you go for headshot>body shot or body shot>head shot. For 6-man bloats, SCAR may take 1-2 less bullets. For hardly headshoted zeds like crawlers, both gun takes 2 shots. Stalkers? Both takes 3 shots. WHY should i use the SCAR when I have 12 more bullets in one mag and faster reload time?


And about the LAW, I am quite sure the base damage is increased. I can one-shot a 6-man suicidal bloat which has more than 2000 hp as I remembered. At the same 6-man game, I shoot a fleshpound with the LAW, and then the commando he is chasing empty one clip of ak on him, one 2lv sharpshooter shooting him with hand cannons, no other teamates around, the fleshpound died. (its the crazily large new added map, so everyone get too bored and go on the hill to hunt)

However, with the fact that I cannot use ANYTHING else, the LAW is still not in my playing list.

 

[CandleJack]

people, use the scope? a level6 commando using a SCAR can still take out clots, crawlers, gorefasts, bloats and stalkers in one, count em ONE headshot. it gets a decap in one shot and they almost instantly bleed out. the job of the perk is to take out these masses of "lower" tier zeds. nothing has changed in that department as it's still a piece of cake for skilled commandos to handle these guys with the SCAR. the only that has changed is now the commando can't rely upon going full-auto and spamming a mag of SCAR bullets into a FP/Scrake to kill em (at least not in suicidal). but imo there's nothing wrong about that. it's the SS job to take those guys out so you do your job and find good players who really know how to play the role of SS.

A really cool trick:

Use both your weapons.

AK/L22 half a mag to the head, followed by half a SCAR mag to the head will drop a scrake on any difficulty, though on normal or beginner you're better off just SCARing it away.

The trick is to switch to the SCAR after it rages, and before it reaches you.

Alternately if you feel like it you can katana it to death.

 

[outofrealman]

Fleshpounds don't take extra damage from law. I copied the code in the below post. While it is before the patch, none of the specimen code was changed so it still applies. 2x to pipes and frags, 1.25x to nade launches, and 1.0x to LAW.
[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=622895&postcount=23[/URL]

I took on a couple of FPs before on solo suicidal with the LAW to see how quickly I could drop them. That video is in the 2nd half of this post:
[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=632103&postcount=15[/URL]

I also don't know why LAW gets head shot bonuses. The impact damage should not be factored in unless the rocket/nade is a dud. I made this video prior to the patch as well but it also still applies post patch since the only LAW change was a bigger explosion radius. By the way, Demos have always received a damage boost with the LAW since the level up patch and now receive an extra bonus for the Impact Damage which again, shouldn't be accounted fro unless the rocket was a dud. Given how I could 1 shot a solo beginner patriarch (2000hp) with 1 rocket and a solo suicidal patriarch (7000hp) with 3 rockets, I have no idea how that much damage could be done with a rocket even with the extra damage.
[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=631584&postcount=8[/URL]

Yeah, the scrake resistance is a myth. People need to stop taking that kf-wiki as 100% accurate.
[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=632135&postcount=17[/URL]

I MAY know why.

From my observation, for M32 and the LAW (haven't really test with the M79,but I think it is the same as M32?), it seems the explosion will count as head shot when the rocket hits above the chest, however the impact damage will only count as head shot when the rocket/nade hits the hitbox of a zed's head (decaping the zed at close range).

From YouTube - Killing Floor - LAW and M32 Testing v2[/COLOR][/URL] :

Testing the LAW and M32 against what has been pried from the SDK. Some numbers for the LAW and M32:

* Base law damage = 850
* Base M32 nade damage = 350
* Headshot multiplier = 1.1
* Impact Damage = 200
* Impact damage headshot multiplier = 2.0



Assuming the demo perk can also get impact damage bonus (cos MAC-10 can also have bullet damage bonus from firebug), one rocket hitting the upper chest of a fp will do:

200*1.6 = 320 <---impact damage
+
850*1.1*1.6*1.5 = 2244 <---explosion damage (also assumming LAW can do 150% damage like the other explosives)
=
2564

So the fp will only have 61 hp left, so 2-3 shots from 9mm can kill it.


However I dont know how to analysis or extract the codes, may be I'm wrong.

EDIT: Well... just remember in your test you kill patty with 3 rockets.... so each one of them should be doing at least 2334 damage.
Even both impact and explosion damage count as headshot, each rocket can only do 2136 damage... SO I failed, LOL.

 

[Evilsod]

Well what you have to remember with the Bloat is that if you impact its head and decapitate it you cause a huge amount of damage to it even before the explosion hits it. Pretty sure you're wrong about the Bloat being 1 hit otherwise because i have fired it at 6man Hard Bloats and they just ignored me and kept on going.

Damage required to kill seems a little off sometimes... Fleshpounds and Scrakes die to the Fire Axe much faster than they should do if i recall.

 

[outofrealman]

Well what you have to remember with the Bloat is that if you impact its head and decapitate it you cause a huge amount of damage to it even before the explosion hits it. Pretty sure you're wrong about the Bloat being 1 hit otherwise because i have fired it at 6man Hard Bloats and they just ignored me and kept on going.

Damage required to kill seems a little off sometimes... Fleshpounds and Scrakes die to the Fire Axe much faster than they should do if i recall.

I don't know, after testing by myself, I can also 3 rockets to down the solo suicidal patty. So each rocket do AT LEAST 2334 dmg. Haven't really try again on 6-man suicidal bloat yet, but it only has 2067 hp, so it "should" go down in one direct hit rocket.


About melee weapons, (in fact all of the weapons) there's a backstab bonuse, you are supposed to give more damage if you attack the back of a zed. However, it seems you give more damage by attacking their front instead. (just try to shoot a 2-3 man suicidal bloat from the back, a 6lv ss can one-shot it from the front, but instead you will just decap it if you shoot it from the back)

Also, the backstab bonus of melee weapons seems to be higher. But you get backstab bonus by attacking the front instead... so ... they go down faster than they should.

May be that's why the LAW seems to give much more damage then it should be cos of the "backstab" bonus and the high base damage of ot.

EDIT:
Found a link on youtube:
YouTube - Killing Floor - Melee Damage is Incorrectly Calculated

 

[outofrealman]

After playing some 6-man suicidal game, I think the M14 is totally fine now. I've noticed not only the ammo is reduced. The damage is also reduced. It takes two head shots to kill a 6-man husk (and head shot can stun husks), and 10 for a fleshpound (haven't really have a chance to try on scrakes tough).

If I dont use 9mm for some lonely clots or gorefasts, I may run out of ammo when there's still 50-60zeds left on later wave. Perfect, at least that's what I want it to be.

 

[scary ghost]

I did another test with the LAW where I use the commando perk to see health bars.

YouTube - Killing Floor - LAW Testing #3

Pretty much 1 rocket nearly wipes out a scrake, followed by 3 head shots. The pistol damage is a known quantity, 35 base damage with 1.1x HS multiplier:

1750-3.5*1.1*3 = 1634.5
​

By subtracting the pistol damage from the total HP, I concluded that a rocket to the head does about 1634 damage +/- variance where "variance" is based on how close to the head you shot the target. This number close to double the value of the LAW base damage (1700) which suggests that head shots are doing double the damage, not the 1.1x originally thought to have done. Interestingly enough, the impact damage head shot bonus is 2x.

Explosives do have damage falloff based on how far you are from the explosion. The rocket wasn't a clean head shot so I guess it didn't do the full 850 base damage. You can see when I do 2 body shots (guaranteed 1700 damage), the scrake's hp is nearly wiped out needing only 2 pistol head shots or 1 alt fire knife to the head to finish it.

I believe the 1634 damage is roughly correct. Accounting for the demo's 60% damage boost:

1634 * 1.6 = 2614.4
​

A level 6 demo would be dealing about 2614 damage. Assuming my numbers are correct, it would explain 3 shotting a solo suicidal patriarch (7000hp) and coming close to 1 shotting a solo suicidal fleshpound (2625).

As usual, the files in the SDK you can use to confirm my numbers:
* LAWProj.uc
* SingleFire.uc
* DamTypeDualies.uc
* KnifeFireB.uc
* DamTypeKnife.uc

----
If you want to read more details about the backstabbing glitch, the bug report is here:
http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=45814

And no, it only applies to melee weapons. The backstab code is in KFMeleeFire.uc which is a different file that the guns use, KFFire.uc. KFFire.uc uses the DamageMax variable to deal damage and does not modify it in anyway.
----
@outofrealman
BTW, I did respond to your question in the fleshpound rage thread if you haven't seen it yet. I'll put up a video later to confirm what I have and to verify the code behavior.

 

[outofrealman]

I did another test with the LAW where I use the commando perk to see health bars.

YouTube - Killing Floor - LAW Testing #3

Pretty much 1 rocket nearly wipes out a scrake, followed by 3 head shots. The pistol damage is a known quantity, 35 base damage with 1.1x HS multiplier:

1750-3.5*1.1*3 = 1634.5
​

By subtracting the pistol damage from the total HP, I concluded that a rocket to the head does about 1634 damage +/- variance where "variance" is based on how close to the head you shot the target. This number close to double the value of the LAW base damage (1700) which suggests that head shots are doing double the damage, not the 1.1x originally thought to have done. Interestingly enough, the impact damage head shot bonus is 2x.

Explosives do have damage falloff based on how far you are from the explosion. The rocket wasn't a clean head shot so I guess it didn't do the full 850 base damage. You can see when I do 2 body shots (guaranteed 1700 damage), the scrake's hp is nearly wiped out needing only 2 pistol head shots or 1 alt fire knife to the head to finish it.

I believe the 1634 damage is roughly correct. Accounting for the demo's 60% damage boost:

1634 * 1.6 = 2614.4
​

A level 6 demo would be dealing about 2614 damage. Assuming my numbers are correct, it would explain 3 shotting a solo suicidal patriarch (7000hp) and coming close to 1 shotting a solo suicidal fleshpound (2625).

As usual, the files in the SDK you can use to confirm my numbers:
* LAWProj.uc
* SingleFire.uc
* DamTypeDualies.uc
* KnifeFireB.uc
* DamTypeKnife.uc

----
If you want to read more details about the backstabbing glitch, the bug report is here:
[URL]http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=45814[/URL]

And no, it only applies to melee weapons. The backstab code is in KFMeleeFire.uc which is a different file that the guns use, KFFire.uc. KFFire.uc uses the DamageMax variable to deal damage and does not modify it in anyway.
----
@outofrealman
BTW, I did respond to your question in the fleshpound rage thread if you haven't seen it yet. I'll put up a video later to confirm what I have and to verify the code behavior.

But this still dont explain why I can only decap a bloat from behind and one-shot killing one from the front. (and everyone go rambo on farm @ first 1-3wave)

And btw, the rocket will only do dmg to the total health, right? So after one shot, a solo scrake will also die in three 9mm body shots? Also, do you really need to hit the head with the rocket? of you only need to aim for the upper chest?

 

[scary ghost]

But this still dont explain why I can only decap a bloat from behind and one-shot killing one from the front. (and everyone go rambo on farm @ first 1-3wave)

And btw, the rocket will only do dmg to the total health, right? So after one shot, a solo scrake will also die in three 9mm body shots? Also, do you really need to hit the head with the rocket? of you only need to aim for the upper chest?

If you can record a video, that would help a lot . I haven't seen or perhaps haven't noticed what you are experiencing but I will keep an eye out for it in future games.

Yes, rockets only subtract damage form the total health. The explosive damage types all have:

bCheckForHeadShots=False

In the KFMonster.TakeDamage() function [KFMonster.uc], the sharpshooter's head shot bonus is ignored if the above boolean variable is false, which makes sense as a sharpshooter cannot 1 shot a scrake with a rocket to the head despite having a 50% head shot bonus. Also, HeadHealth is ignored if the said variable is false which is confirmed in the video as solo suicidal scrakes have only 1138 head health.

I am not sure if you have to aim for the head but there is code in the the LAW (and every explosive projectile class) that scales damage based on how are you are from the impact point. I know I didn't get clean head shots but for a difference of 66 damage, that's fairly minor.

 

[anthracy]

AK/L22 half a mag to the head, followed by half a SCAR mag to the head will drop a scrake on any difficulty.

What?