I think your complaint has more to do with On-line games than with RO in and of itself. In most pub environments, no matter what game you are playing, you will find sparodic team play and many Rambos. Tis the nature of pub play and not much you can do in the game will change that. Strangers playing against strangers. The reason why people are suggesting joining a clan is because you will find more teamwork based play, which is what you seem to be after. I know for a fact that 3 of us from a clan working together even in a pub will have significant effects on the gameplay. However, when I am alone and just want to play I tend to gravitate towards Sniper or single flank and ambush tactics.
My only gripe about the game.
- Thread starter Schroder1
- Start date
Don't blame it on the game. Blame it on the playahs. No communication betwixt players ======== unstructured havok on the battlefield.
And by the way.. the objectives are pretty straightforward and clear. Check out your map once in a while. See who the commanders are, who's on your team? It takes a group effort to make a gameplan, and I've been in plenty of 'combined' arms battles in this game.
Improving team play on public servers
Improving team play on public servers
This is something that I've been thinking about for a while now. I've often noticed clan members on public servers working together silently. I assume they are using an independent team speak SW to speak with one another as I don't hear them speaking in RO voice-com. The point is not that they are using a separate team speak, but that they already know with whom they are teaming up.
Getting this kind of coordination going on a public server where you may not know any of the other players has a rather small chance of succeeding because there is nothing in RO to support this kind of organization.
My idea is to implement something similar to what I saw in BF2, a kind of squad roster. That might work something like this. A player decides he wants to organize a squad, picks out an open squad-leader slot (has nothing to do with the squad leader class) and then invites other players to join his squad. This way all members of said squad can always identify other members of it. They would have a named leader who they should follow because that would be the idea of joining that squad. I wouldn't change anything in the voice-com, as in BF2 where everybody in a squad can only speak with each other and only each other because I find that unrealistic and I am in favor of having only local voice-com anyway. Local as in you can only hear others speaking within voice range of the speaker. This would also induce players to work in a more realistic manner.
I know that this would require some coding in RO itself, but I don't imaging that it would be that much or that difficult to code.
One other thing that might improve coordination would be some kind of icon denoting who is speaking. Being that all characters of the same class look identical and there are no movements or gesticulations from speaking players it is impossible to determine who is speaking.
What brought this to my attention was something that recently happened to me. I was playing Hill 108 (Darkest Hour) and was creeping through a trench when a grenade landed a few feet in front of me. I immediately jumped up and ran back, but I didn't get far because a team mate was coming the other way through the trench. So I ran into him shouting "grenade grenade" through voice-com. He didn't seem to understand, because he just stood there in the way. I immediately realized that he probably didn't even know that it was me shouting at him. How could he. Very unrealistic. If voice-com were local only, he would at least have heard that my voice was from right by him, if in stereo or 3d-audio he might ever have been able to recognize that it was coming from me, and if there were an (I'm speaking) icon above my head like in DOD he'd probably be able to see it. Of course it doesn't mean that if I tell somebody to do something he is necessarily going to do it, but it would give hem a chance to understand better what I'm trying to communicate.
Just my 32 cents.
Improving team play on public servers
This is something that I've been thinking about for a while now. I've often noticed clan members on public servers working together silently. I assume they are using an independent team speak SW to speak with one another as I don't hear them speaking in RO voice-com. The point is not that they are using a separate team speak, but that they already know with whom they are teaming up.
Getting this kind of coordination going on a public server where you may not know any of the other players has a rather small chance of succeeding because there is nothing in RO to support this kind of organization.
My idea is to implement something similar to what I saw in BF2, a kind of squad roster. That might work something like this. A player decides he wants to organize a squad, picks out an open squad-leader slot (has nothing to do with the squad leader class) and then invites other players to join his squad. This way all members of said squad can always identify other members of it. They would have a named leader who they should follow because that would be the idea of joining that squad. I wouldn't change anything in the voice-com, as in BF2 where everybody in a squad can only speak with each other and only each other because I find that unrealistic and I am in favor of having only local voice-com anyway. Local as in you can only hear others speaking within voice range of the speaker. This would also induce players to work in a more realistic manner.
I know that this would require some coding in RO itself, but I don't imaging that it would be that much or that difficult to code.
One other thing that might improve coordination would be some kind of icon denoting who is speaking. Being that all characters of the same class look identical and there are no movements or gesticulations from speaking players it is impossible to determine who is speaking.
What brought this to my attention was something that recently happened to me. I was playing Hill 108 (Darkest Hour) and was creeping through a trench when a grenade landed a few feet in front of me. I immediately jumped up and ran back, but I didn't get far because a team mate was coming the other way through the trench. So I ran into him shouting "grenade grenade" through voice-com. He didn't seem to understand, because he just stood there in the way. I immediately realized that he probably didn't even know that it was me shouting at him. How could he. Very unrealistic. If voice-com were local only, he would at least have heard that my voice was from right by him, if in stereo or 3d-audio he might ever have been able to recognize that it was coming from me, and if there were an (I'm speaking) icon above my head like in DOD he'd probably be able to see it. Of course it doesn't mean that if I tell somebody to do something he is necessarily going to do it, but it would give hem a chance to understand better what I'm trying to communicate.
Just my 32 cents.
I agree with you Thommy , local voice comms would be great , more realistic and practical , hopefully in "game 2" 
Local Voice-Com
Local Voice-Com
Actually, unless it's been changed, voice-com or VoIP as the manual calls it, has "Local" as one of it's possible choices: " ... and the 'Local' channel just to be heard by other players who are close to your location on the map". When you are in a vehicle "Local" means only other passengers of the vehicle can hear you.
I can only remember using it once, and that was in a vehicle, because I didn't want to spam the entire server with my commands to the driver. The only problem was, that he couldn't hear me. I had been using the team channel, but some people were complaining. So I switched to "Local" and suddenly nobody could hear me, not even my driver. So I switched back to "Team" an my driver could hear me again. I asked him if he didn't hear me just before, and he said, "no".
So there already is a "Local" channel, it's just that nobody uses it.
Local Voice-Com
Actually, unless it's been changed, voice-com or VoIP as the manual calls it, has "Local" as one of it's possible choices: " ... and the 'Local' channel just to be heard by other players who are close to your location on the map". When you are in a vehicle "Local" means only other passengers of the vehicle can hear you.
I can only remember using it once, and that was in a vehicle, because I didn't want to spam the entire server with my commands to the driver. The only problem was, that he couldn't hear me. I had been using the team channel, but some people were complaining. So I switched to "Local" and suddenly nobody could hear me, not even my driver. So I switched back to "Team" an my driver could hear me again. I asked him if he didn't hear me just before, and he said, "no".
So there already is a "Local" channel, it's just that nobody uses it.
Then join a Realism Unit!
You outta know how fun they are Luchan. Remember the good times we had back in the days of the 181st, Viktor and Zheka, EFO and all those things?
Long time ago now......
Excellent answer! I just can't figure out what it has to do with this thread.
What ever it is, it must be catching.
The idea is to promote teamwork in the game for all players who wish to be involved with it and to add a bit more realism. Spawning 300 meters behind your squad/fire-team/unit and conversing with them about planned tactics on your way back to the front is not realistic. Stragglers and getting separated from your unit has always been an issue on the battlefield. Being in a clan or realism unit might 1) be satisfying for me personally (but, I don't play enough to qualify for either), 2) it won't help the game in general to be more team-play oriented for all players, whether in a clan or realism unit or not.
It would be nice to hear from a dev if he thinks something like this might even be remotely possible. Not that I would expect something like this to be available within the next year or two, but just to hear his thoughts.
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My post makes perfect sense, if you want real teamwork and less nubery you will have to join a Clan... and use TS or Vent.
Pubs are a joke, asshattery and TKing galore. Then you got the lone wolfs who no matter what will just sit and point-whore rather than help the team cap.
It is what it is...
whoa whoa, hang on - i thought the point was that the local chat didn't actually work this way in vehicles - though it would have been great if it did - it was heard by teammates in the area irrespective of whether it was spoken from within a tank?
Then again i'm a bit out of touch - was it fixed/changed?
Or maybe simply because i had to listen to so many tankers (who i would have credited with the nouse to have tried the local channel) incessantly rabbiting away to their crew I simply presumed it never worked this way.....
AFAIK 'Local' is a complete separate channel. If you are in the 'team' channel and somebody speaks in the 'public' channel, you will hear him. But if you speak, he will not hear you.
So it's like the two 'team' channels are sub-channels of the 'public' channel. Just that you cannot join the 'team' channel of the other side.
I had assumed that the 'local' channel would be more like 'public' or 'team' only with the limitation of your voice getting quieter the further you are from the listener.
However, it doesn't seem to work like that. AFAIK if you are not in the 'local' channel, you will not hear anything from others in the 'local' channel, even if you are right next to them.
So it's like the two 'team' channels are sub-channels of the 'public' channel. Just that you cannot join the 'team' channel of the other side.
I had assumed that the 'local' channel would be more like 'public' or 'team' only with the limitation of your voice getting quieter the further you are from the listener.
However, it doesn't seem to work like that. AFAIK if you are not in the 'local' channel, you will not hear anything from others in the 'local' channel, even if you are right next to them.
Actually after playing now for a few weeks and still feeling very newbish I have decided that there are a number of things that can be done to improve aspects of this game.
1st, automatic local voice messages/warnings. If my character sees a grenade thrown toward me, anyone near me should hear an automatic warning without the player actually having to take any action. If I am taking cover from a MG that is covering the area I luckly got stuck in, anyone comming close should hear a warning as they come near.
2nd, Map Info, etc. Take a bunch of those cool map info tools and tie them in so they are active when you are in close proximity to a Squad Leader. He is supposed to have the info and being near him should provided some battlefield awareness. Make everyone want to keep him alive and make him "responsible" for some things and hopefully most of the time this guy will play carefully because he will add so much to your efforts.
3rd, Maps themselves, as in game design. Now much of this is actually the result of server admins and their map selections. I still cry when I see 24/7 servers which only play one Map, what a waste. Some servers are better but focus on infantry or armor only maps. The best are the ones which select maps which favor combined arms tactics but the question becomes what makes a good combined arms map? Almost universally you need multiple capture points which can be recapped on large maps. Some choke points are good but they need to have weaknesses and not be impregnable unless it is because the team holding it are just playing great. Now this part becomes essential, the ratio of map size to server size and the balance of crewman/infantry slots available. If you have a large combined arms map and a 20 player server limit then you have a problem because you need more then 10 guys to form your infantry squad and vehicle crews and cover multiple objectives. Some guys will boost the crewman slots and turn the map into a tank/vehicle map but if properly done a combined arms map can't be won unless you actually use Infantry and Armor together in supporting rolls and that takes alot of player slots so you need a strong server with bandwidth.
Personally I feel that the road to real success for a game like RO needs to go to an MMO model similar to Planetside. Use "Train Stations" to move large numbers of players 'virtually" between battle zones and theaters/fronts or sea transports, example.
I make a "German Soldier", home base is Germany. I want to fight in Russia I board a train for the Eastern Front, from there I have three choices, Army Groups North, Center, and South. Perhaps I want to fight for Rommel, I catch the train to Italy and I can fight there or continue on to Tunisia by ship where I can fight the English in the East or the Americans in the West.
If you are unfamiliar with Planetside then I will give you a cursory run-down. There was a low-end character development angle where players started at level1 with about 4 certification points. Every level gained added a new cert point. Cert points were spent towards specialties like Tank Driver or Fighter Pilot or even heavy infantry roles and engineer or medical. Certification points could be "forgotten" and other skills "learned" so you were never realy stuck with a choice. It might take a couple of days but you could completely respecialise your character for special events. Our clan would often shift from Airborne to Armor/MechInf styles of combat and sometimes we would go Air Force heavy just to change the pace. Ask anyone who played planetside during it's golden age and they will tell you it was a wonderful blend of strategy, tactics, and FPS gameplay. It's also about time for a replacement and that's exactly where these guys should be going with the predecessor to RO in my opinion.
1st, automatic local voice messages/warnings. If my character sees a grenade thrown toward me, anyone near me should hear an automatic warning without the player actually having to take any action. If I am taking cover from a MG that is covering the area I luckly got stuck in, anyone comming close should hear a warning as they come near.
2nd, Map Info, etc. Take a bunch of those cool map info tools and tie them in so they are active when you are in close proximity to a Squad Leader. He is supposed to have the info and being near him should provided some battlefield awareness. Make everyone want to keep him alive and make him "responsible" for some things and hopefully most of the time this guy will play carefully because he will add so much to your efforts.
3rd, Maps themselves, as in game design. Now much of this is actually the result of server admins and their map selections. I still cry when I see 24/7 servers which only play one Map, what a waste. Some servers are better but focus on infantry or armor only maps. The best are the ones which select maps which favor combined arms tactics but the question becomes what makes a good combined arms map? Almost universally you need multiple capture points which can be recapped on large maps. Some choke points are good but they need to have weaknesses and not be impregnable unless it is because the team holding it are just playing great. Now this part becomes essential, the ratio of map size to server size and the balance of crewman/infantry slots available. If you have a large combined arms map and a 20 player server limit then you have a problem because you need more then 10 guys to form your infantry squad and vehicle crews and cover multiple objectives. Some guys will boost the crewman slots and turn the map into a tank/vehicle map but if properly done a combined arms map can't be won unless you actually use Infantry and Armor together in supporting rolls and that takes alot of player slots so you need a strong server with bandwidth.
Personally I feel that the road to real success for a game like RO needs to go to an MMO model similar to Planetside. Use "Train Stations" to move large numbers of players 'virtually" between battle zones and theaters/fronts or sea transports, example.
I make a "German Soldier", home base is Germany. I want to fight in Russia I board a train for the Eastern Front, from there I have three choices, Army Groups North, Center, and South. Perhaps I want to fight for Rommel, I catch the train to Italy and I can fight there or continue on to Tunisia by ship where I can fight the English in the East or the Americans in the West.
If you are unfamiliar with Planetside then I will give you a cursory run-down. There was a low-end character development angle where players started at level1 with about 4 certification points. Every level gained added a new cert point. Cert points were spent towards specialties like Tank Driver or Fighter Pilot or even heavy infantry roles and engineer or medical. Certification points could be "forgotten" and other skills "learned" so you were never realy stuck with a choice. It might take a couple of days but you could completely respecialise your character for special events. Our clan would often shift from Airborne to Armor/MechInf styles of combat and sometimes we would go Air Force heavy just to change the pace. Ask anyone who played planetside during it's golden age and they will tell you it was a wonderful blend of strategy, tactics, and FPS gameplay. It's also about time for a replacement and that's exactly where these guys should be going with the predecessor to RO in my opinion.
I agree partly with the thread started but also with what people are saying. I find it can go either way on public servers. There have been nights where nobody want's to know, and they either ignore you or swear at you. Or there have been nights when a certain person has really pulled everybody together and lead them through the objectives. There are also regular occasions where i have teamed up with 2 or 3 people to progress through a map. And this normally means living longer and getting more done. It's just finding people you have a good natural cohesion with. It's rare, but it happens more in this game than most others. Just last night i made a very good friend and we had a laugh going out in tigers and blasting ruskies to bits. He was guinning i was driving, and it was a hell of a lot of fun. Then we went about on foot hunting down tanks. I love it when stuff like that happens.