My First Draft at an Ice + Electric Perk (CC enemies to set up allies)

[Demon Swords]

Perk Name (pending):
Elementalist (kind of long and sounds out of place with the other perks)
Scientist (Makes it sound there should be weapons other then Ice or Electric; maybe gravity based or other hyper-futuristic)​

Weapons: Any Weapon that is Electric or Ice Based. (see list in spreadsheet at bottom.)
Starting Weapon: Gun like demo starting weapon that freezes or a freezing chalk n' burn.
Grenade: Freezing Grenade (sharpshooters)
Alt Exp gain: Freezing Zeds. (could instead be Killing Husks or E.D.E.R.)

Point of Perk: To be a Team player by CCing Zeds to set up for other players. Also to make a perk that is based on Electric and Ice Weapons.

Note: This is a work in Progress so the numbers, skills, and tier order may change. I will keep the content on this post to be the same (as a point of Reference), but I may make changes to the version in the Spreadsheets (at the bottom of post.)

Basics

• Damage 1% per lv (max 25%.)
• Increase Incap Power of perk weapons 2% per lv (max 50%)
• Emp damage Resist 2% per lv (max 50%) (Same # as bile resist of Medic.)
• Armor Bonus 1% per lv. (max 25%.)
• Reactive Armor - Once per wave escape the death by emitting a freezing wave around you. (like demo’s, but freezes instead of dealing damage.)

Alt Basics to be damage-less (like field medic.):

• Increase incap power to 4% per lv to (max 100%.)
• Increase Armor bonus to 3% per lv (max 75%.)
• Increase move speed by 0.4% per level (Max 10%)
• (same emp and reactive armor; remove damage boost.)

Incap in Basics: As it is hard to make a fair trade-off between CC and other skills I decided to place Incap boost in basics.

Two Versions Explanation: I made a version for both damage boost and no damage boost because I based this perk to be a supportive class like Field Medic, but most of the weapons are Cross-perks that can provide about 50% damage boost, so not having any damage boost on this perk may make this perk weak with those weapons.


Tier 1? - Damage Control (numbers pending)

Lingering Effects:

• Zeds you Freeze or Stumble with a perk weapon, deal 10% reduced damage and move 10% slower. (Permanently, does not stack.)

Parasitic Ice

• Players hitting a zed that is Frozen or Stumbled by your perk weapon or Grenade, heals that player by 2 health per second for 3 seconds.
• (resets timer on hit, activates only while zed is frozen or Stumbled.)
• (could instead heal on killing a zed that was currently frozen or Stumbled by you.)

Tier 1 Explanation: Both of these perks are about helping your team stay alive through two different means. Decreasing damage and slowing Zeds helps your team dodge better and take less when they fail. Healing is obviously about keeping team health high. Made them tier 1 because health regen is a part of skirmisher for Berserker.

Tier 2? - Disposition (Numbers Pending.)

Impulsive

• Increase move speed by 10% and Weapons Switch speed by 25%.

Fortitude

• Increase total Health by 50%.

This tier explanation: Not sure if these two skills are a fair trade-off but I wanted Fortitude to be an option and Impulsive is the only logical other option of the skills I thought of. They do both fit a similar role though. More health makes you die slower while more move speed makes you able to dodge better and thus take less damage. Put them as tier 2 because Fortitude was tier 2 for Support and Combat medic was tier 2 of Field Medic.

Tier 3? - Chemical Warfare (numbers pending)

Liquid Nitrogen

• Players deal 15% increased damage against Zeds that is Frozen by your Perk weapons or Grenades. (damage for all players, lasts until they unfreeze.)

Toxic Energy

• Freezing or Stumbling Zeds with perk weapons positions them, inflicting poison damage over time. (Resetting duration for each second of being CC'd.)

Explanation for tier 3: Both of these skills are about increasing damage output. Liquid Nitrogen sets up large Zeds to take more damage from you or others while Toxic Energy is about spreading the CC to get a lot of DoT. As both these skills are based of the Field Medic’s Tier 3, made this Tier 3.

Tier 4? - Equipment (numbers Pending.)

Utility Belt

• Increase the explosion area of effect of grenades by 50%. (base 6mm for grenade so would be 9 from this perk.)
• Carry one extra grenade and 10% more ammo for perk weapons.

Power Pack

• Increase magazine capacity of perk weapons 50%.

Explanation for Utility Belt: Grenades would be a very important tool for this perk to get a Quick Freeze on a large number of Zeds to proc other skills. I also wanted to make a skill that increased Max Ammo but not too much so I combined the two ideas into one skill. As extra Max Ammo is usually a Tier 3 or Tier 4 I put this effect in Tier 4 (since Tier 3 was locked.)

Explanation for Power Pack: I wanted Either mag or Reload speed for this perk because most of the cross-perk weapons have those options from their perk. Since CC is the point of the perk, I decided Mag size because making sure to get to the CC threshold would be more important than reloading to try again. I put this skill against Utility Belt as no other spot trade-off made sense and some of the weapons don’t need extra mag size so this skill will not always be the dominant one.

Tier 5 - Unnatural Disaster (effects pending.)

Zed Time: World Of Ice

• During Zed Time, Increase Area of Affect and range of perk weapons by 30%, and you have unlimited ammo.

Zed Time: Permafrost

• During Zed Time, increase Incapacitation power of perk weapons by 100% and Zeds lose frozen 50% slower.

My concerns:

• If made well: this perk would just be a better Swat (though Swat is the worst perk besides maybe Survivalist.)
• Skills more focused on Ice Weapons because of there being more of them.
• No Zeds have any resistances to Freeze or Emp damage. Also, all the bosses take extra damage from the Arc Generator.
• All the Freezing weapons are tier 2 or 3 while all electric weapons are tier 4 or 5.
• Only 7 already non-DLC weapons either ice or Electric based (Unless Static Strikes were added) (1 DLC being the Frost Fang.)
• Only 1 Tier 2 weapon (all classes have at least 2 tier 2s.)

Link to Spreedsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qtWJrijI8T7VVSSHhbCWBG6c3P4awFnOLgZX5rBzjKg/edit?usp=sharing (orginally had it under signature, but I guess not everyone can see those.)

 

[Aleflippy]

Eh... I'd say that "elemental weapons" hardly make for a perk, as in : it doesn't fit any role on its own. Plus, they are arguably the weapons I like the least. But you put so much thought into it, I'll respect your hard work and try to look a bit deeper than my preconceptions!

> I don't see your spreadsheet about the weapons... Only your concerns, which includes mine : what would his arsenal be? Just porting the electric and ice-based weapons is a recipe for disaster, as it will end up with a mishmash of weapons barely linked together. There's a reason why the support only has shotguns, the commando assault rifles and the SWAT SMGs : they all fit a certain role and playstyle. Sure, some perks are a bit more versatile (firebug and medic comes to mind), but otherwise : perks often get weapons tailor-made to their main goal. As such, more than the lack of a T1, it is more a lack of cohesion that bugs me. Also by that logic... Why couldn't you choose between an EMP or cryo grenade?

In fact, my main gripe is that it is a perk that "scavenges" what other perks are doing. Now yeah, I won't lie that I never quite got why the Sharpie was the "freezing perk" (at least until recently). But it made sense for both the surv and zerk to have EMP-based weapons. They are perks meant to divert the zeds attention and help their team more than deal the damage themselves. So removing that from these perks would be a strong blow against their specialties.

> For the passives, I find the idea of freezing zeds quite alright, but again... What if you're more fond of electric weapons? It means you cannot gain extra XP? As for killing EDARs, the main problem is that you pretty much never meet them outside of Suicidal and HoE difficulties. So yeah...again a bonus that is very situational. All the other passive buffs are good enough. I actually really like the freezing armor ! I also believe that extra damage is not too bad, as long as it doesn't turn the perk into a big mean killing machine. Basically : extra damage as a passive is okay, but you should keep it mild for skills to balance it out.

> Parasitic ice seems like a very weird idea of which I cannot find the logic, but at least functionally... Eh, It's workable. It allows you to heal your team indirectly, which is a nice way to make the perk different from the medic. However, I'm afraid of the numbers. Assuming you got a fast-firing weapon in combination to let's say, the freezethrower... You could pretty much allow your teammates to keep healing indefinitely. Now yeah, the zerk does it and nobody bats an eye, but he has to put himself in danger in order to do so. Imagine a commando sniping frozen zeds from afar, steadily healing himself? I like the idea but it definitely needs testing. I do think Lingering Effects is nice.

>Eh... I'm a bit bored by the level 10 skills tbh. It also doesn't feel that right to have YET ANOTHER tanky perk. The zerk, SWAT and medic are enough (the support and survivalist can also be considered ones in some circumstances). I think he shouldn't be inclined to be put so much into the firefight. He should really support his team in a more laid-back kind of way. Staying behind his buddies and zapping/freezing everyone ! Impulsive is a bit better in that regard, and I guess it could help to have freezing/electrifying combos ! But yeah, against fortitude... No sure if it stands a chance.

>I thought that zeds already took extra damages while being frozen? Do you want to add another extra 15% on top of that? Could work, but again : needs testing. Zeds shouldn't get frozen too easily and you shouldn't be able to nuke zeds too easily either. Or they shouldn't stay frozen for too long? Also, DoT is absolutely trash in KF2 and poisoning zeds actually causes them to panic (similarly to fire damage), thus actually being somewhat annoying for perks that rely on accuracy (gunslinger and sharpie). Also, while I personally don't mind that much to have skills catering to a certain playstyle... A lot of your skills ideas are more focused on ice weaponry than electrical ones. Careful with that too.

>Again, level 20 skills are a bit boring, but I guess they are the most balanced of the bunch. The extra AoE for the grenades seem particularly useful considering they are all about catching as many zeds as possible in their area of effect. That one I really like ! The 50% extra ammo... It depends. I could see it work for the Arc Generator or the Freezethrower, but for the winterbites and the compound bow...? Would you fire one and a half arrow?

>Level 25 skills are fairly self-explanatory, so I won't delve into them that much. It helps you do your job better, cranking up your power for the duration of zed-time. Simple and efficient.

The latest tidbits regarding your concerns :

>I personally find the sharpshooter and medic way less fun to play than the SWAT ;-) ... it's mostly due to their skill trees tho ! Their arsenal are fine and even pretty fun (arguably too powerful for the medic). But yeah, considering the brain stormings we've had lately, I think all four of them (including Surv) could have some tweaks done to them.

>I see you answer what I said above about the ice-skills... Well, it is true. More ice-weapons. But then, bringing forward a new perk would probably mean thinking about some new guns as well... Right? Nothing says that we cannot have new ones. Plus, for a long while, only three weapons in the firebug's arsenal could use Ground Fire... And it still was seen as the top-pick ! Again, I won't be a hypocrite by saying that you should have more electrical skills when I said that many people doesn't like to favor one playstyle over the other (and opposing "electrical" vs "ice" weaponry would be a big mistake, kinda like how the medic can only be a buff machine or a one-man-army...). A finer balance would be great. Otherwise, the people preferring electrical weapons would actually be at a disadvantage. A good point you brought up was the fact that all the electric guns were on the upper-tiers (and the opposite for the ice ones). On its own, it isn't exactly "bad" I think. But then, it means that you'd be forced to do what everyone hates about the SWAT : switching your skills all the time. You'd probably start by using ice-buffing skills at the beginning of the game, then switch to the electric-buffing ones. But again, nothing says that we cannot tweak the guns or bring new ones... Or just rework the skills !

>I didn't think about the resistance, but it is very true! But then again, I believe that prior to the MWG inclusion, no zeds were resistant or vulnerable to microwaves... So Tripwire could always bring it up along with the guns. Similarly, the Frost Fang could be included for free with the inclusion of that perk (it probably won't happen anyway, so let us dream!)

Bottom-line? Yeaaaah... You can tell I'm not sold on the idea eh? I just find the perk a tad too gimmicky for my liking. I really dig the idea of having some sort of counterpart to the medic regarding "supportive" perks. I also believe it brings kind of a niche with him by focusing on something else than healing or tanking. But then, I'd support the idea of having a proper scientist perk instead... And give it guns like the hemogoblin or the ZED MkII from the first game! That way, it would truly be based most on weapons with an extra supportive flavor to them rather than that "elemental" theme that feels kinda forced upon it.

I mean... When you think about it, yeah the winterbites or compound bow can freeze opponents. But it isn't their main roles. They are still very effective at killing. And very effective at, well...Doing the job of the perks they were given to. I'm afraid that, in turn, the "elementalist" would turn into a Survivalist 2.0. That's already something I despise about the medic and his wide range of weapons of every style.

So yeah. The core idea is great. But I think focusing purely on the CC capabilities and overall support of the team would be better than merely having a "cryoperk"

 

[Demon Swords]

Eh... I'd say that "elemental weapons" hardly make for a perk, as in : it doesn't fit any role on its own. Plus, they are arguably the weapons I like the least. But you put so much thought into it, I'll respect your hard work and try to look a bit deeper than my preconceptions!

> I don't see your spreadsheet about the weapons... Only your concerns, which includes mine : what would his arsenal be? Just porting the electric and ice-based weapons is a recipe for disaster, as it will end up with a mishmash of weapons barely linked together. There's a reason why the support only has shotguns, the commando assault rifles and the SWAT SMGs : they all fit a certain role and playstyle. Sure, some perks are a bit more versatile (firebug and medic comes to mind), but otherwise : perks often get weapons tailor-made to their main goal. As such, more than the lack of a T1, it is more a lack of cohesion that bugs me. Also by that logic... Why couldn't you choose between an EMP or cryo grenade?

In fact, my main gripe is that it is a perk that "scavenges" what other perks are doing. Now yeah, I won't lie that I never quite got why the Sharpie was the "freezing perk" (at least until recently). But it made sense for both the surv and zerk to have EMP-based weapons. They are perks meant to divert the zeds attention and help their team more than deal the damage themselves. So removing that from these perks would be a strong blow against their specialties.

> For the passives, I find the idea of freezing zeds quite alright, but again... What if you're more fond of electric weapons? It means you cannot gain extra XP? As for killing EDARs, the main problem is that you pretty much never meet them outside of Suicidal and HoE difficulties. So yeah...again a bonus that is very situational. All the other passive buffs are good enough. I actually really like the freezing armor ! I also believe that extra damage is not too bad, as long as it doesn't turn the perk into a big mean killing machine. Basically : extra damage as a passive is okay, but you should keep it mild for skills to balance it out.

> Parasitic ice seems like a very weird idea of which I cannot find the logic, but at least functionally... Eh, It's workable. It allows you to heal your team indirectly, which is a nice way to make the perk different from the medic. However, I'm afraid of the numbers. Assuming you got a fast-firing weapon in combination to let's say, the freezethrower... You could pretty much allow your teammates to keep healing indefinitely. Now yeah, the zerk does it and nobody bats an eye, but he has to put himself in danger in order to do so. Imagine a commando sniping frozen zeds from afar, steadily healing himself? I like the idea but it definitely needs testing. I do think Lingering Effects is nice.

>Eh... I'm a bit bored by the level 10 skills tbh. It also doesn't feel that right to have YET ANOTHER tanky perk. The zerk, SWAT and medic are enough (the support and survivalist can also be considered ones in some circumstances). I think he shouldn't be inclined to be put so much into the firefight. He should really support his team in a more laid-back kind of way. Staying behind his buddies and zapping/freezing everyone ! Impulsive is a bit better in that regard, and I guess it could help to have freezing/electrifying combos ! But yeah, against fortitude... No sure if it stands a chance.

>I thought that zeds already took extra damages while being frozen? Do you want to add another extra 15% on top of that? Could work, but again : needs testing. Zeds shouldn't get frozen too easily and you shouldn't be able to nuke zeds too easily either. Or they shouldn't stay frozen for too long? Also, DoT is absolutely trash in KF2 and poisoning zeds actually causes them to panic (similarly to fire damage), thus actually being somewhat annoying for perks that rely on accuracy (gunslinger and sharpie). Also, while I personally don't mind that much to have skills catering to a certain playstyle... A lot of your skills ideas are more focused on ice weaponry than electrical ones. Careful with that too.

>Again, level 20 skills are a bit boring, but I guess they are the most balanced of the bunch. The extra AoE for the grenades seem particularly useful considering they are all about catching as many zeds as possible in their area of effect. That one I really like ! The 50% extra ammo... It depends. I could see it work for the Arc Generator or the Freezethrower, but for the winterbites and the compound bow...? Would you fire one and a half arrow?

>Level 25 skills are fairly self-explanatory, so I won't delve into them that much. It helps you do your job better, cranking up your power for the duration of zed-time. Simple and efficient.

The latest tidbits regarding your concerns :

>I personally find the sharpshooter and medic way less fun to play than the SWAT ;-) ... it's mostly due to their skill trees tho ! Their arsenal are fine and even pretty fun (arguably too powerful for the medic). But yeah, considering the brain stormings we've had lately, I think all four of them (including Surv) could have some tweaks done to them.

>I see you answer what I said above about the ice-skills... Well, it is true. More ice-weapons. But then, bringing forward a new perk would probably mean thinking about some new guns as well... Right? Nothing says that we cannot have new ones. Plus, for a long while, only three weapons in the firebug's arsenal could use Ground Fire... And it still was seen as the top-pick ! Again, I won't be a hypocrite by saying that you should have more electrical skills when I said that many people doesn't like to favor one playstyle over the other (and opposing "electrical" vs "ice" weaponry would be a big mistake, kinda like how the medic can only be a buff machine or a one-man-army...). A finer balance would be great. Otherwise, the people preferring electrical weapons would actually be at a disadvantage. A good point you brought up was the fact that all the electric guns were on the upper-tiers (and the opposite for the ice ones). On its own, it isn't exactly "bad" I think. But then, it means that you'd be forced to do what everyone hates about the SWAT : switching your skills all the time. You'd probably start by using ice-buffing skills at the beginning of the game, then switch to the electric-buffing ones. But again, nothing says that we cannot tweak the guns or bring new ones... Or just rework the skills !

>I didn't think about the resistance, but it is very true! But then again, I believe that prior to the MWG inclusion, no zeds were resistant or vulnerable to microwaves... So Tripwire could always bring it up along with the guns. Similarly, the Frost Fang could be included for free with the inclusion of that perk (it probably won't happen anyway, so let us dream!)

Bottom-line? Yeaaaah... You can tell I'm not sold on the idea eh? I just find the perk a tad too gimmicky for my liking. I really dig the idea of having some sort of counterpart to the medic regarding "supportive" perks. I also believe it brings kind of a niche with him by focusing on something else than healing or tanking. But then, I'd support the idea of having a proper scientist perk instead... And give it guns like the hemogoblin or the ZED MkII from the first game! That way, it would truly be based most on weapons with an extra supportive flavor to them rather than that "elemental" theme that feels kinda forced upon it.

I mean... When you think about it, yeah the winterbites or compound bow can freeze opponents. But it isn't their main roles. They are still very effective at killing. And very effective at, well...Doing the job of the perks they were given to. I'm afraid that, in turn, the "elementalist" would turn into a Survivalist 2.0. That's already something I despise about the medic and his wide range of weapons of every style.

So yeah. The core idea is great. But I think focusing purely on the CC capabilities and overall support of the team would be better than merely having a "cryoperk"

Thx for the feedback, You are right that Ice weapons don't really have much of an innate style to them so I think I will rework the idea of the class to be completely supportive while diversify the effects to make it work with not just ice weapons. I'll probably keep Lingering effects and the two zed-time skills but rework everything else. I'll also look at killing floor 1 weapons (like you suggested) and try to think of unique science weapons, like Gravity weapons.

For your concerns of Parasitic Ice I mentioned that the effect would reset on each hit. This was to make it so high fire rate weapons would still heal by about the same amount as slow ones. It was my intention that the on freeze effects would only work for when they are completely frozen and are unthawing.

For the link to the Spreadsheet it put under signature which should put it under all my posts but I guess not everyone can see those. (I saw Aze do it, so I thought it was seeable for everyone.)
Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qtWJrijI8T7VVSSHhbCWBG6c3P4awFnOLgZX5rBzjKg/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Aleflippy]

Thx for the feedback, You are right that Ice weapons don't really have much of an innate style to them so I think I will rework the idea of the class to be completely supportive while diversify the effects to make it work with not just ice weapons. I'll probably keep Lingering effects and the two zed-time skills but rework everything else. I'll also look at killing floor 1 weapons (like you suggested) and try to think of unique science weapons, like Gravity weapons.

For your concerns of Parasitic Ice I mentioned that the effect would reset on each hit. This was to make it so high fire rate weapons would still heal by about the same amount as slow ones. It was my intention that the on freeze effects would only work for when they are completely frozen and are unthawing.

For the link to the Spreadsheet it put under signature which should put it under all my posts but I guess not everyone can see those. (I saw Aze do it, so I thought it was seeable for everyone.)
Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qtWJrijI8T7VVSSHhbCWBG6c3P4awFnOLgZX5rBzjKg/edit?usp=sharing

Oh I see. I won't lie, I didn't quite understand that it was what you meant by "resetting the timer". I think that's a bit fairer indeed. And probably the best way to heal your whole team quickly (outside healing grenades that is). Maybe we could go even further into the supportive role of the perk and say that SHATTERING a zed could also give out a flat heal boost, like I don't know... you get healing by 10HP? It would require your teammates to be quick, and you to keep the frost coming.

There are far less Killing Floor 1 weapons to delve into that you might expect sadly... A lot of them have been either ported or adapted into KF2. But strangely enough, neither of the Zed Eradication Devices (although both had EMP effects ! ) But I guess it's always worth taking a look.

And yup, assuming we go more into the "scientist" road, other kinds of weapons could have be thought of. Maybe even some gadgets? Although they aren't that popular with other perks (I seldom see any demo using the C4 for example).

Maybe we could even take some inspiration from let's say Half-Life? I believe something similar to the Ion Cannon would be neat as a T3/T4 weapon.