My dislike for UE3 and question regarding it in HoS and Immersion

[ItsJono]

Hello,

For a lot of reasons, I don't like the Unreal Engine all that much as so many games are using it to the level where it's either Source Engine, UE3, or soon to be CryEngine 3.0 and the most apparent engine with the most "limitations" is Unreal -- at least at face value, i'm no coder / moder / game developer so I say this with a certain lack of knowledge or expertise. I'm sure amazing things can be done.

I won't lie, i'm huge on graphics, regardless of whether or not it makes the game. I've been spoiled by things that increase immersion such as dynamic lighting, dynamic weather/skies, destructible environments and other engine technologies that allow for realism in games.

My question is simple: Can someone elaborate on the known features that Heroes of Stalingrad will have?

-

Regardless of what HoS may or may not have, I am super excited for this game and anxiously await it. Thanks!

 

[Fedorov]

http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=34141

 

[SgtH3nry3]

Unreal Engine 3.x is definately not the most limited engine in terms of features and graphics.

It's actually still in a developing stage, every now and then the developers from Epic add, improve or even remove various features and functions.
At least I know they added some sort of ambient occlusion a few months ago. Which has been a big feature in Crysis and ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead.

The only thing I have a grudge against is the probable implemention of nVidia PhysX in Unreal Engine 3.x, or more specifically: Red Orchestra: Heroes of Stalingrad.

 

[PsYcH0_Ch!cKeN]

The Unreal engine has far fewer limitations than is widely believed. Especially for engine licencees (a la Tripwire) with access to the native code. For modders it's a little different, but that's irrelevant for what you're asking.

What you generally see as "limitations" in the majority of Unreal based games are rarely limitations of the engine, but instead of the hardware that the games are targetted at, i.e. consoles. The Xbox 360 and PS3 are now 2-3 generations out of date as far as hardware is concerned and while developers are getting very clever with their optimisations, there's still only so much that the consoles can handle. As it is, they're rendering most games at horrendously low resolutions which are then upscaled to your tv. When those games then come to PC, they are without fail, lazy ports with little to no effort whatsoever made to improve the experience for PC players.

In the case of HoS however, we have a rarity. While consoles have been mentioned on occasion, the primary target is still (as far as we all know) the PC and that means that the lowest common denominator as far as performance is concerned, will be considerably higher. That should mean less texture streaming issues, higher draw distances (without the use of artificial blur to high level of detail adjustments like in Gears of War 2) and more players on screen at once without having to compromise on detail.

That said, I really hope they do something about the Unreal bloom algorithm's habit of putting a halo of light on everything. Dead bodies in a dark corridor should not have glowing edges like they've been dipped in luminescent paint. But with any luck the recent lighting engine update for UE3 should help with that.

EDIT: SgtH3nry3, regarding PhysX, it's in whether we like it or not. It's the default physics engine for UE3 and won't be changing. Admittedly I'm not a fan of it and the revelations this week about nVidia's potentially deliberate gimping of the CPU implementation definitely are hardly going to win me over (it runs on x87 instructions, I mean really nVidia?) but sadly that's what we're stuck with.

 

[Ralfst3r]

A few things:

1. Tripwire won the UE3 engine, so it's free from them to use.
2. They have experience with Unreal Engines, which is good for development time
3. UE3 gets update a lot, it's not the same engine as it was in Unreal Tournament 3
4. Hey, it's Tripwire. It's all good [/fanboyrant]

 

[FlyXwire]

ItsJono, take a look at some of Epic's promo/support pages for their Unreal 3 engine (it looks real capable of being up to the task):

[URL="http://www.unrealtechnology.com/"][url]http://www.unrealtechnology.com/[/URL][/URL]

One of my wants is for destructible environments in HEROES, and although the Unreal engine allows it to be coded, it's unknown to what extent DE might be possible in this game. I also wonder if the coding for DE might prove beyond the expertise of many map makers, and wonder if this might work to limit TWI's decision whether to use Unreal's DE capabilities to their full extent. (?)

Anyway good questions IJ, and it's prompted some good responses from the posters above too.

 

[smokeythebear]

Hello,

For a lot of reasons, I don't like the Unreal Engine all that much as so many games are using it to the level where it's either Source Engine, UE3, or soon to be CryEngine 3.0 and the most apparent engine with the most "limitations" is Unreal

If tripwire used the source engine they would be far more limited then unreal. Only some kind of wizard could make vehicles and large environments work.

If it's just graphics you talking about then it's really more dependent on the artists then the engine.

 

[SheepDip]

Hello,

For a lot of reasons, I don't like the Unreal Engine all that much as so many games are using it to the level where it's either Source Engine, UE3, or soon to be CryEngine 3.0 and the most apparent engine with the most "limitations" is Unreal -- at least at face value, i'm no coder / moder / game developer so I say this with a certain lack of knowledge or expertise. I'm sure amazing things can be done.

I won't lie, i'm huge on graphics, regardless of whether or not it makes the game. I've been spoiled by things that increase immersion such as dynamic lighting, dynamic weather/skies, destructible environments and other engine technologies that allow for realism in games.

There's no way on earth the UE3 is more limited the Source engine, seriously - and there's no point even comparing UE3 with Cryengine 3.
UE3 came out almost (over?) 3 years ago, and Cryengine 3 first surfaced at GDC last year.

UE3 is an excellent engine, in terms of the things you can do with it (including breaking static meshes to make destructable objects) or the visual effects. It's been updated recently too - I can't think of a game engine I'd rather HOS have been developed on.

As with most things though atmosphere and immersion are down to the the quality of the gameplay and then quality of the artwork, whether it's lighting, weather, textures etc...

Surely nothing to worry about?

It's also a good point that Tripwire will want to support the community for mods etc, a community that has been "raised" if you like, around Unreal tech. All the modders from RO already have experience with different levels of the UDK, changing the engine would surely have a negative impact on the quality of any modwork?
It should also be noted that the UDK is way better than the POS Source SDK, I've not used any Cryengine SDK so I can't say but I can't imagine it being as good as the Unreal stuff.

 

[Capt.Marion]

From an equally un-educated (coding/modeling, etc) standpoint, just one thing to remember:

Play UT2004. Then play RO:OST. Then play Killing Floor.

Having played UT2004, I would never have expected accurate ballistics, a true hit-detection system and physics modeling for bullets and their ballistics, etc... all the thing present in RO:OST. I have no doubt that TW will continue to amaze us in a suitable fashion through innovation and creativity.

 

[Flogger23m]

Where does everyone get the idea the UE3 sucks and is incapable of anything?


And Source being less limited than UE3? Seriously?

 

[Xendance]

Saying "UE 3 sucks" is a fad by people who have never done any content for games

 

[hockeywarrior]

I really think these myths about the "limitations of UE3" are conjured by games that haven't made very good use of the engine, namely console titles.

 

[dogbadger]

well of the few UE3 games i've played, (from an engine point of view)-
UT3, vegas and MoH airborne were all pretty solid and assured

- and then there was borderlands which impressed me with its expansive enviroments and surprised me with it's shooting dynamics.
on top of that bioshock is reknown for having detailed visually impressive interiors.

so in the basis of these very different games alone and no expect knowledge, i'm quite confident it's a capable, versitile engine.

 

[Fedorov]

UE3 was really impressive in mass effect 2

 

[Capt.Marion]

UE3 was really impressive in mass effect 2

reading this, I figured I'd try the demo to see how it is...



and now I'm out $30 and up one copy of Mass Effect 2.

Not to mention a LOT more hyped up for HoS. Based on how pretty UE3 game look on my machine while still running smooth as silk, I'm very impressed.

 

[Kipper]

RO:HoS should use Source imo.

 

[echonian]

Yeah...the current source engine is extremely outdated, to be brutally honest. It would take, as others have said, a wizard to get HoS to work with the source engine like it will with UE3, not to mention the fact that the graphics would be nowhere near comparable. Though the source engine does to a decent job with physics, as far as I know.

 

[Zennousha]

Source is the new Build engine. Amirite?

 

[mestido]

UE3 was really impressive in mass effect 2

Agree

 

[MEGADETHTHRETH]

Source engine is old and crap, compared to UE3, I know the physics is awesome in it but for graphics and reliability(on mine anyway) it seems UE3 has it, plus it worked perfect for the first one (UE2).
So can you imagine changing gameplay mechanics from one engine to another. I'm sure when the next source engine comes out it will be superior to any engine.
Even teams similar to tripwire are using UE3, remember age of chivalry mod for source engine, well, they are making an actual $ game now with UE3, its called Chivalry, and it looks amazing.
So I believe UE3 is the appropriate choice for everyone at the minute.
See as Psycho Chicken said in another post, the unreal engine 3 wasn't running at near its full potential because all the pc gamers were getting ports, so I think this is one of the first $ games you can buy where it is pc only (I think and would hope so), and ran to its full potential.
Also I like this engine because its very well known, and people can start making mods before the game even comes out like Iron Europe, also it runs really well.
And for mappers and modders, there is some great tools with it, like the tree maker and things like that which make it easier and quicker to get things done, so that means that we players can get mods quicker, and maps could be made from just about anybody.
For anyone who has no experience with UDK, I'm sure there is a video tutorial on youtube that explains how to make maps, so I imagine that by the time ROHOS is relesed, a lot of people will have there own addition to the game with some maps and things.