My beef and my concern.

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Psycho_Sam

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 6, 2006
1,242
16
0
33
Birmingham, UK
www.rawgames.co.uk
Tbh action needs to be focused or you end up playing round robin like in BF2 which has 4 or so objectives open at once, so you cap one, go to the next to find the one you just capped has been taken back again. :rolleyes:
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
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Falmouth UK
What i want is replayability, a varying and different experience every time you play. I want the team that works tactically as a team to be able to win over the team that got the best shots. I want the ability for a team to surprise the other team with wits.

More raw places so that some places work better for class a and some for class b but that class a and b need to work together to obtain an common objective. Rather than everybody just doing and being able to do their own thing.

Different stages in a map with maybe close range places, long range places, places with loads of freedom for the individuals in some of the caps but an epic climax with everybody together in another place.

I want a form of dept in the map that like with a game of chess or a game of go, that you learn new things every time you play and that you pretty much always have more things to learn. Easy to pickup, but needing a lifetime to master.

Such a map is not possible most likely but replayability and teamwork are for me the most important assets, and both seem to fade away more in the newer maps.


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@ psycho Im not saying that every cap should be open as you dont want to play hide and seek, but having 2 or 3 fights going on at the same time similar to say DH gives you options in orders of capping.

The capping in circles effect is a sideffect of the cap system and point system in ro, as you only get points for capping a zone yet defending or winning does not give any benefit in roost. I've seen people let the enemy cap a zone on purpose so they could recap it for another +10 points.

In organized games like iron crescendo or clan games where the team only cares about winning a match and not getting a top score, there is never an issue of running around with caps as people decide how aggresively or defensively for every cap they play, in order to win the map compared to in order to get the highest amount of points.
 
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MtnMan01

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 17, 2006
266
21
0
Tbh action needs to be focused or you end up playing round robin like in BF2 which has 4 or so objectives open at once, so you cap one, go to the next to find the one you just capped has been taken back again. :rolleyes:

Exactly,1 objective at a time,than move on,to next one.But with mutilple ways to advance on to that Cap.(thru buildings,alleys,,etc this is very impt,keep them guessing,,,where they coming from)

With the limit of players.<65,reinforcements being replaced at the squad level(15-32 men max at any one time per team).With that few men it is so important that we all fight as a small unit.

Loosely sticking together,with distances of seperation of 100-150yrds max.

Multiple caps IMO would be indefensible or darn hard to keep.With the present system with RO:OS there's some maps that can hav mulitable caps,,that can be capped,and lost.

As Psycho_Sam has stated,with BF2,a good point BTW.,,makes a game just about impossible to win and frustrating.

With a lineral map,attackers will know where to go,and defenders will know where to defend.This is where a teams(squads)will starting acting as a small fighting unit.(Concentrated for best efficacious,moving/fighting as 1).

Clans are quite aware of "proper" fighting at this level/concentration/communications/proper weapon usage/flanking/holding-defending/attack,,etc.

Bottom Line here IMO,Proper tactics at the squad level,with realistic objectives with the # of men,producing real team work.

Instead of ppl spread out willie nillie getting shot to hell,no real leadership/teamwork,and accomplishing nothing really except depleating reinfs.

Just my 2 cents worth,,~SeaDog~,,,,,,:cool:

Edit-yes LemoN DH has some great maps,,I agree if the caps(2-3) are close together(1-200 yrds apart)
with the limit of ppl allowed to fight at 1 time,again seperation is deadly,,concentration/good leadership is the key here to a successful game,IMHO,,,,,,,,,,
 
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LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,295
2,346
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Prussotroll's Bridge
id rather see it made DH style
2-3 lines of linear advances paralell

allways garantees some nice action while still having the ability to flank/set priorities to another objective

but spawns should be a bit further away than sometimes with DH
 

skittlesareyum47

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jun 29, 2009
707
246
0
i find it funny how you say that all games (or msot) with cover systems fail, because in rainbow six vegas, it is essential msot of the time ur on a wall than off
 

ButchCassidy

Moderator
Feb 17, 2006
3,727
277
0
The Hole in the Wall
www.twbclan.com
Well I saw the vids and they contained everything I thought that RO needed to evolve...Manteling, bleedouts plus neat stuff like the blind firing and weapon collision with objects not mention the massive improvement in grfx quality.

Every franchise needs to grow and you can only grow by adding more stuff.

I think TWI are onto a winner which will sell like hot cakes once people realise just how much is in the new game...

I suppose change was as inevitable as a bird crapping on a new washed car..lol

Can't wait to get playing it personally...:D
 

SchutzeSepp

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 23, 2006
1,540
8
0
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im willing to sell TW the rights to my DH A-B map system for a verry democratic price :D
im not un-proud of the system i came up with, i hope maybe TW would implement a more sophisticated and less erzats system than mine.(maybe the squad role system in Hos reveals the possiblility of it)
because the eternal problem with the RO system is no matter how wide your map is, or how many routes there are, players will always come from the same point. wich does not limit the width of maps, but reduces the quality and intensity of the gameplay as the maps get wider (unless you separate the spawnareas like on pariserplatz, but then you spawn randomly in either one.) in DH you can choose, and most players prefer the combat you get on a certain side of the map. and will always choose that side, when you cap your side's obj, you can help the other side by flanking the enemy or cutting it's supply.

in brief, you have more freedom, while everything is carefully structured. and then you may not like a certain map that wins the vote, but at least you can choose the side of the map on wich you prefer to fight. i believe that has some kind of positive psychological effect.
 

Fedorov

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 8, 2005
5,729
2,774
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im willing to sell TW the rights to my DH A-B map system for a verry democratic price :D

Oh, are you the one who designed that system and those maps?, congratulations, while I'm not a big fan of DH I'm a big fan of those maps
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,295
2,346
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Prussotroll's Bridge
im willing to sell TW the rights to my DH A-B map system for a verry democratic price :D
im not un-proud of the system i came up with, i hope maybe TW would implement a more sophisticated and less erzats system than mine.(maybe the squad role system in Hos reveals the possiblility of it)
because the eternal problem with the RO system is no matter how wide your map is, or how many routes there are, players will always come from the same point. wich does not limit the width of maps, but reduces the quality and intensity of the gameplay as the maps get wider (unless you separate the spawnareas like on pariserplatz, but then you spawn randomly in either one.) in DH you can choose, and most players prefer the combat you get on a certain side of the map. and will always choose that side, when you cap your side's obj, you can help the other side by flanking the enemy or cutting it's supply.

in brief, you have more freedom, while everything is carefully structured. and then you may not like a certain map that wins the vote, but at least you can choose the side of the map on wich you prefer to fight. i believe that has some kind of positive psychological effect.

yeah great work with that system mate
only gripe i have is that the spawns are often way too close (and in too open terrains)
just look at bastogne, once the allies have capped the fields, they spawn right into the fire(whilst still having spawn protection)
thats a real immersion breaker

what id really like to see from TW is something along the lines of the AB system, with a little bit more freedom

ie: a mix of the current RO spawnsystem and the DH-AB system
RO for excample allways spawns you in a verry protected place and offers you 2-4 different ways out of the spawn

DH verry often spawns you too close and too unprotected, wich isnt only sometimes gameplay-breaking as a side will get spawnraped, but sometimes also immersion breaking as those guys can catch 100+ bullet and not die, because of the spawn protection wich sometimes is too long
but the DH system, as you allready mentioned, offers freedom of choice and flanking action, multiple ways ect. whilst still managing tu funnel most players into an epic action fest

i fully understand that this system isnt possible for all types of maps, but imho maps like Kaukasus, Danzig, or Odessa are not up to the standards of ro anymore (after i played DH)
 

SchutzeSepp

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 23, 2006
1,540
8
0
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yeah great work with that system mate
only gripe i have is that the spawns are often way too close (and in too open terrains)
just look at bastogne, once the allies have capped the fields, they spawn right into the fire(whilst still having spawn protection)
thats a real immersion breaker
i think you mean Foy? well i sort of feel the same about some of them, after i stopped being an official member they were tweaked by the DH team when they added them to 3.0 on many i find the spawn distance too short aswell personally.
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,295
2,346
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Prussotroll's Bridge
i think you mean Foy? well i sort of feel the same about some of them, after i stopped being an official member they were tweaked by the DH team when they added them to 3.0 on many i find the spawn distance too short aswell personally.

yeah lol
i dont know how i managed to write bastogne o_O
 

Zetsumei

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 22, 2005
12,459
1,433
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Falmouth UK
The onslaught/assault modes with vehicles in UT2004 UT3 always had selectable spawns. I really hope that becomes an option again in ROHOS.

Its one of the things i really miss even in stock maps where you cannot say on ongledow as infantry if you spawn in the farm or at the hill.

The DH system works pretty well, as atleast for more than 24-32 players it gives more freedom in paths that you take.
 
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roundabout

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 31, 2009
6
2
0
realism is great, but there won't be a realistic game until players die when their avatar is killed :)

it's interesting to think what RO would be like if players really, really avoided dying above all else...suppression would actually work 100%
 

213

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 22, 2009
917
371
0
not really. it's such a stupid thing to think about.

just imagine what real war is like. does that seem like a game to you?
 

VariousNames

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 6, 2009
1,226
521
0
So I finally got to take a look at Heroes of Stalingrad and I can't begin to say how much I think that this is going to be a godsend to the Red Orchestra Franchise. That said I have my doubts about it's direction.

Is realism and simulation going to be something that comes after action elements? I can see that the game is more focused on urban "Rattenkreig" but I get this sinking feeling watching the gameplay demos on youtube.

Regardless of how much value you place on teamwork and taking orders from a leader who (one would hope) knows what he's doing there is ALWAYS going to be the sizable population of people who are just there to shoot people randomly with little or no regard to objectives and game play mechanics. Look at Brothers in Arms Hells Highway. I thought that this was going to be a really smart multiplayer where people were maneuvering to flank enemies orders were being issued by someone who had some idea about what was supposed to be going on. Instead I found a game where the whole idea was to run around not taking cover and gunning down people haphazardly. This happens if Gears of War and any other game that utilizes some form of a cover system.

If action is being put at the forefront of what the game is about I fear that this game will not be a Red Orchestra but just another Call of Duty clone or as I like to call the series "Call of Going Prone: Modern Pronfare and Prone at War". I say this because Call of Duty isn't about anything other than mindlessly running around guns blazing and going prone faster than the other guy can bunny hoping all the way.

I fear one Heroes of Stalingrad game type than any other that I've heard of: Skirmish. If it's about elimination of enemies on a map the objective is no longer about working as a squad. The Objective now is to kill more guys than anyone else! The commands will just be arbitrary HUD points and the Leader will just be some guy who has a special ability to do something no one cares about.

I LOVED Red Orchestra for so many reasons and I've yet to find games that can deliver simulation quality in a package like it can. I wanted to some day find some way that I could help with making this game better and add more content. But I'm scared that Ostfront 41-45's successor is little more than a remark made about it by a Red Orchestra player "A Money Ploy".

Summary: GUYS! I'M AFRAID THIS GAME WON'T BE MY VERSION OF PERFECT! WAHHHHH!

Please save yourself the trouble of reading this post.
 

Brinkman

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 9, 2006
50
0
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I have to admit, with being a big fan of the series, I'm skeptical about this game. What it will actually be like when playing with strangers in a pub. Will there be any team work?

One game that has a great teamwork system that's very simple is actually Battlefield 2. And it's so simple too.. One person is a squad leader, you join their squad and you spawn by them. It's perfect because, for some strange reason, when you have a group of people and someone is the leader, peopel tend to follow them. even if it's some jack *** you've never met. You'll stay with your squad and if given orders, most of the time they will follow them.. simple stuff like "capture this point"

It's a simple system that's implemented that gets people to work together.