Mutators, custom maps and ranked servers

[Forssen]

How will ranked servers work with mutators and custom maps?

No mutators or custom maps with ranked servers
Mutators and custom maps will receive less attention and players. People will feel less driven to create content.

All mutators and custom maps work with ranked servers
There will be maps and mutators to exploit the system and people who choose not to will feel cheated.

Automatic system that prohibit some changes with ranked servers
Uncertain how this would work, some legitim mutators would be prohibited while some exploitations would work depending on where the line is put.

Manual selection of maps/mutators that can be used by ranked servers
Requires work, smaller selection will be available. It will be harder to get new mutators played as they probably most often have to get popular before getting an OK stamp. Mutators and maps would have to get a new OK with every update they get.

 

[Yoshiro]

Ranked servers will probably be limited in some ways as to what can be modified on them.

Over time we can change what is and isn't allowed based on community feedback in the ranked servers (such as mutators and maps). We are currently discussing what those limits should be internally (IE: things are not finalized yet).

Unranked servers, the sky is the limit.


- Updated my post after feedback from the code team

 

[Zetsumei]

I like your edited post much more

 

[LeopoldStotch]

Maybe let the community have an influence over which mutators are accepted or not?
A council or parliament of high ranking or well known community members that can vote on it?

Should take some load of the devs can give the players an empowering feeling, a similar system is already in place in EVE online.

 

[koschi]

I think the white list thing in killing floor is a good option......
I always liked it!

 

[213]

Maybe let the community have an influence over which mutators are accepted or not?
A council or parliament of high ranking or well known community members that can vote on it?

Should take some load of the devs can give the players an empowering feeling, a similar system is already in place in EVE online.

being high ranking and well known doesn't mean they are sensible.

everyone should have equal say, and the devs make the final decision.

 

[10-78 BusterKing]

Ranked servers will probably be limited in some ways as to what can be modified on them.

Here we go again.

That's what divides the gaming community. NO ONE likes to play on unranked servers. And not allowing custom contents for ranked servers kills the modding community.

I was really hoping that Tripwire wouldn't go that way.

This is really really BAD news.

 

[213]

that's not what he said. he said the degree of customization will be limited, which is actually the norm for quite some time now.

considering the nature of this game as a serious, tactical shooter, fluorescent textures and spiky models present a serious concern. those things are as effective as regular cheats in a game like this.

they already hinted at their solution to this, which is to have mod white-lists for admins to run their server with.

 

[Mike_Nomad]

Ranked servers will probably be limited in some ways as to what can be modified on them.

Over time we can change what is and isn't allowed based on community feedback in the ranked servers (such as mutators and maps). We are currently discussing what those limits should be internally (IE: things are not finalized yet).

Unranked servers, the sky is the limit.


- Updated my post after feedback from the code team

RO has such a policy in place and its, I might add, quite transparent. If its handled in the same manner, who cares? The points mongers and carrot chasers can do their thing and the hardcore players can do theirs... a win/win situation.

At RGN's RO Semper Fi Server, we run over 85 different custom maps along with our favorite mutators and we have a buncha fun. True, the points and awards are not there but then, who cares? We are doing it our way and without hobbles. RO is still, after all these years, fun to play.

As long as the policy is similar... OK. Truth is, such ("do it our way") policies do divide the community as we have seen in other games. Me? I'm all for hardcore RO it is the best!

 

[Major_Day]

I agree with Mike, and i can do without ranked servers, who needs them?
I play for the fun of it, im not interested in checking my rank every day, so sorry Buster, but i for one prefer to play on unranked servers.

 

[Snuffeldjuret]

I like ranked servers if the ranking and progression system is good. If it is incompatible with competitive play (as I suspect it will be), I prefer unranked servers.

 

[10-78 BusterKing]

It's been proven by all ranking games that the vast majority of the pubs don't join unranked servers. ROOST didn't have that problem because it wasn't a ranked system.

This isn't good for clans that are looking at recruiting players. And that's a fact.

Custom content will divide the community if it is restricted because of the gaming browser making it obvious between ranked/unranked servers.

 

[Das Bose]

I think regardless of whether people prefer ranked or non ranked servers there is a need to cater to both camps equally imho. So while some people prefer to play on non ranked servers, myself included, I don't think it's very fair that those who prefer ranking should lose out

 

[Floyd]

The fact remains that if ranking is to remain consistent (and meaningful) for all players and custom content is allowed, the custom content (be they mutators, maps, skins) has to be either restricted, "approved", or not allowed at all. How can it be any other way, Buster?


I enjoy experiencing what the modding community can produce. Give server operators access to the data stream and they can keep their own stats if TW's doesn't suit them.

 

[Zetsumei]

I personally don't see why having pure servers should be connected to the ranking system.

Its great to have the ability for someone to look for pure servers. But it's great for those that want to play custom maps to be able to rank up as well.

One thing you cannot go around is that ranked servers will be loads more popular than unranked servers. In a day when people are accustomed to the easy downloads of steam etc, a lot of people do not even want to wait for a redirect on a custom map.

Its really hard to fill up custom map servers unless you kick boot it with a lot of people. In the end most server admins want to have their server populated so they somewhat change server settings to keep people playing on their servers. Running custom maps already made servers empty at map change and without ranked servers that issue will grow.

I mean as a custom mapper to enjoy your own map you need to find like 32 people to play with, this is hard enough already. Make the barrier of finding 32 people even higher ain't my cup of tea. If anything I would like to see custom content more accessible than in previous games.

I'm afraid that in the end a big part of the custom mappers will just focus on coop as then at least they can play their own maps. And beside that that server admins wanting to have a filled up server will end with empty servers.

 

[DirtyRat]

I'm a big fan of custom maps, but I don't know if I'm the only one to experience download problems when connecting to some popular RO servers, but I did in the past, and it was very annoying...I couldn't connect, and there were no "normal" servers with enough players so it put me off playing RO for quite some time (well over a year).

I'm back playing it daily again now and all seems to be ok, but when you've got 30 mins to kill and you just want a quick game it can be a real pain when you realise you don't have the map, or the custom textures/animations/sounds etc....and I'll admittedley disconnect and go play BF instead *avoids tomatoes*

I also agree with BusterKing however that if you don't support mods/maps with the ranking system it makes it much harder for them to get any kind of exposure, but I think if we have a "community map pack" like we did for RO then there is no reason why new community made maps can't become part of the ranked system. This also means the community and TW will have had time to play and test the map to ensure it fits all the criteria for ranked status.

I prefer playing on ranked servers on BF, I like the feeling of progression (however circumspect) and again BusterKing is right - the general public won't join unranked servers so recruiting new players for clans will be very hard work if they want to run servers with custom content.

There will always be hardcore players who will seek out custom content (I loved the Merciless mod in the CoD1 days), but there will always be many more players who just play the "pure" game and I think they have to be the priority. I also don't like the idea of any map or mod being given ranked status since it will inevitably make a mockery of the system...no doubt we'll still see the kinfe/pistol type servers appear like we had in BF2 though!

 

[ibleedv20]

I like it both ways,ranked and locked by the devs and unranked and wide open in the unranked servers.
When you think about a developers vision for the game and the money, effort and time invested the perogative is theirs. Where would the game be if it was totally made by committee. Allowing custom content to integrate with the ranked servers would or could destroy or dilute that vision. I know that I trust this developers content more than community content in the short run.
I played a few of the excellent maps at TWI . Plus there are 10 out of the box.....plenty.
That vision of ranked servers is enormously popular in the gaming world these days. That's a fact. TWI has every right to sell to people that like that vision also. I have a sneaky suspicion that their realism sensibilities will keep it in check.
And then I ask myself why would modders be so concerned about injecting content in the ranked side anyways.The purist tendency of those using the SDK should be satisfied with having ranked servers. If the concern is about that content being ignored....well just make it really good and they will come.Or maybe you can ask to be included in the rotation if it is excellent.
But the cold hard facts are that to increase sales to generate income new players won't want a series of in house maps blended with amateur offerings that may not be up to snuff and creating an uneven playing experience that causes people to leave servers or abandon the game altogether. Humbly IMO.

 

[Zetsumei]

10 stock maps doesn't mean 10 maps liked by everybody per se. Fallen Heroes for instance unless it will get some big game play changes compared to Roost won't be a map I will enjoy.

Some maps are there to better suite different players. For instance tankers will only have one single official map, ranking up on your tanking skills on a single map ain't fun while allowing custom content could open up a lot more to it. And a lot of tankers don't like infantry maps and a lot of infantry don't like tank maps, with vehicular combat RO is like a completely different game.

There is no reason why there cannot be pure servers for those that do not want to download stuff or play custom content that could be bad, while still allowing other people to gain ranks on custom maps. Pure and Ranked servers are separate entities, and do not necessarily need to be coupled.

Heck to stop exploit maps the ranking on custom maps could even be kept separate from the stock maps. If anything then some people will play on custom maps just to get those ratings up next to their stock map ratings.

The creative content community has been a core part of Red Orchestra and many of the best maps and official maps have been created by the community. In a time when it is hard to fill a server with a custom map even when it is the best map ever, there should be some steps taken to make it easier for custom mappers to get appreciated for their work not harder.

You can say just don't play on custom content servers, but in the end non ranked servers will be more difficult to fill up. And if a server Admin cannot get his server filled up he'll change settings to make it possible to set up.

There are many roads that lead to Rome, and the traditional way is not necessarily the best. You can let people play on pure servers without punishing the custom content creators.

 

[timur]

I'm a big fan of custom maps, but I don't know if I'm the only one to experience download problems when connecting to some popular RO servers, but I did in the past, and it was very annoying...I couldn't connect, and there were no "normal" servers with enough players so it put me off playing RO for quite some time (well over a year).

I'm back playing it daily again now and all seems to be ok, but when you've got 30 mins to kill and you just want a quick game it can be a real pain when you realise you don't have the map, or the custom textures/animations/sounds etc....and I'll admittedley disconnect and go play BF instead *avoids tomatoes*

I also agree with BusterKing however that if you don't support mods/maps with the ranking system it makes it much harder for them to get any kind of exposure, but I think if we have a "community map pack" like we did for RO then there is no reason why new community made maps can't become part of the ranked system. This also means the community and TW will have had time to play and test the map to ensure it fits all the criteria for ranked status.

I prefer playing on ranked servers on BF, I like the feeling of progression (however circumspect) and again BusterKing is right - the general public won't join unranked servers so recruiting new players for clans will be very hard work if they want to run servers with custom content.

There will always be hardcore players who will seek out custom content (I loved the Merciless mod in the CoD1 days), but there will always be many more players who just play the "pure" game and I think they have to be the priority. I also don't like the idea of any map or mod being given ranked status since it will inevitably make a mockery of the system...no doubt we'll still see the kinfe/pistol type servers appear like we had in BF2 though!

I personally found KF to have much shorter map and mutator download times than RO; is this due to the nature of the game, or a more efficient system (if the latter, the problem will be less evident)?

 

[Zetsumei]

I personally found KF to have much shorter map and mutator download times than RO; is this due to the nature of the game, or a more efficient system (if the latter, the problem will be less evident)?

KF uses the exact same redirect system as RO and UT2004, so if downloads take shorter the mapsizes are simply smaller or the server uses a faster redirect. You can expect UE3 maps to be bigger in size than UT2k4 maps, so if transfer speeds are kept the same RO2 maps will take longer to download.