MP40 isn't OP

[DingDong09]

Troll OP.

Ray gun on left, beast recoil minigun on right.

p.s. As you can see recoil-per-bullet is much higher for PPSh (both were fired w/o mouse correction and PPSh was L9 while MP40 was L0).

That's god damn ridiculous. PPSH recoils like a full automatic rifle. Yeah it's recoil only becomes modest at like lvl 40, in the beginning its sooo bad.

 

[Westernesse]

Read my earlier post where I present a topical weapons comparison. The MKB has very low (if any) bullet penetration. It is not a semi-auto rifle......not by a long shot.

I have a lvl 9 mkb I believe and I'm pretty sure I've killed more people with bullets that penetrated through a wall (fences are a different story) than with both of my semi-autos (G-41 and SVT) combined which as of yesterday are both 50. This is mainly due to amount of bullets you can put through the wall, you need at least 2 good shots (one just shot doesn't kill >50% of the time in my experience and sometimes two won't you can tell because kill cam gives you a shot of 2 bloody bullet marks at chest height and they lived) through a wall with semi to kill which is a lot of extra amo, which leaves you weak against a 2nd or 3rd guy coming in. It's often better to go for the bayonet kill.

MKB is easy to reload (svt doesn't always reload cartridges for some reason even if its empty) and it takes about a 5 round burst to kill someone you just saw in the doorway behind a wall, its practically guaranteed to hit for some reason too. This is my main strat for dealing with ppsh which fires fast in CQC. See them fire to suppress/maybe kill and duck for the closest wall, then fire through the wall at them. That's pretty effective. Maybe its my bad for using them wrong, but it works for me.

 

[AmazingMilto]

you can do this very effectively with many other cqc-oriented guns like the ppsh for one

Sorry, did I read that right?

The PPSh get its bullet-hose power from a high RPM and a large bullet spread. At range, this spread ruins accuracy, whilst the MP40 lacks this spread. The MP40 is a very accurate weapon, its on-par with the Semi Automatic Rifles infact. The MKB is also extremely accurate, you'd have to be blind to think overwise. The MKB is definately intended to be accurate, why? well it can get a scope attachment.

 

[Goten]

@OP

LOL 9 negatives ! Don't bother mate, it's a russian forum

PPSH is the best weapon in the game but the german weapons are the problem

PPSH is great, MP40 is good, MkB is decent.

The only one here who has a clue about the topic is The Monk.

The weapons in RO2 are very situational. That is a good thing. + 1 for that, sir !

Let the "-" flow ...

 

[Vesper11]

I see, Goten, you are one of those "everything is fine, just let me play with my Mkb" people. Every situational, sounds about right.

Spoiler!

Also, I love my sig, cheers me up every time.

edit: MP-40 may seem more powerful because 2 bullets hit almost the same spot thus killing the target. PPSh seems weaker because of its immense recoil - the 2nd and 3rd bullet often go wild and hit arms and other non-vital organs.

 

[gimpy117]

The MP40 is also not only accurate though, it seems to do considerably more bang for its buck in terms of damage against the PPSh41. I can drop people consistently with one bullet from an MP40, but a PPSh41 I've constantly poured three bullets into a guy's chest, melee'd, and had him bandage and move on.

I've noticed this too. The MP-40 only needs one shot to the chest it seems. Did TW Purposefully Nerf the PPSH because of it's ROF? I hope not, that's it's MAIN strength for every one shot of the MP-40 it should be letting out almost 2. And 9mm isn't that much more powerful than 7.62 Tokarev when given the proper loadings (which i suspect was higher than modern pistol loads.)

 

[DesiQ]

Not sure if the OP is trolling, or just mistaken.

If you want to prove to yourself how different the MP-40 and PPSh are, jump into singleplayer or a bot game and use them. You should do it in singleplayer so that latency doesn't factor into it. The basic fact is that the controllability and low recoil of the MP-40 makes it useful out to pretty much 120m, whereas the high recoil of the PPSh limits it to a bit over half that.

Of course it's possible to get longer range kills with both guns, but the difference is that with an MP-40 you can get headshotted with only one or two bullets (excellent first-shot accuracy), whereas a headshot with a PPSh means sending three or four short bursts downrange at the guy. For every Axis player who complains about getting sniped with a PPSh, I can basically guarantee you that the Russian player fired half a magazine to accomplish it.

 

[Hicks]

@OP

LOL 9 negatives ! Don't bother mate, it's a russian forum

PPSH is the best weapon in the game but the german weapons are the problem

PPSH is great, MP40 is good, MkB is decent.

The only one here who has a clue about the topic is The Monk.

The weapons in RO2 are very situational. That is a good thing. + 1 for that, sir !

Let the "-" flow ...

I agree, The Monk put it very nicely in just a few sentences too. Currently, every weapon has its use suited for situations and tastes.

Its us against the horde of bolcheviks, brothers!

 

[Phenixer]

I am currently using my MG42, noobs.

 

[Qweets]

the mp40 suffers at range, I'm always at a loss when I'm playing that one map with the church and wooden fences everywhere its like a lil town.. anyhow the mp40 on that map is hard to use at range.. I don't knwo how people are saying they snipe snipers with it because I try and try to pop 1 shot shots with it and they are NEVER on the spot far out. I always have to burst a few shots above them and pray lol.

It just seems people want to complain just to complain. I'll go back to playing some BF3 while RO2 gets patched up some more because at the moment BF3 is a hell of a lot of fun and RO2 has just been making me frustrated, don't get me wrong I'm a huge RO fan been around since it was a mod but I'm just waiting for some patching.

 

[Gosu]

No offense with anyone here. I'm playing Axis 24/7. I can't tell much about russians weapons, sadly. What I can say for sure is, mp40 is way better then the MKB. Does that make the mp40 OP? Hell no. You guys that call it a laser gun or w.e the term you use, you're wrong. This game is one of the most balance FPS we have right now. PPSH would need indeed less recoil for sure, but nerfing the mp40? Are you guys freaking kidding me? I'm probably way better then any1 that post here in this forum(no offense, just saying the facts here, don't take it personaly), I've seen TONS of assaults player using the mp40 and guess what, they were so freaking bad with it, couldn't hit the target at all (and ya guess what, spraying your 32 ammos doesn't work AT ALL) So, to everyone that says the mp40 needs a nerf, I'd suggest you guys to go play with it, and post your stats on this thread to show everyone how "OP" the mp40 is. Cause in MY book, an OP gun would be, 1000kills vs 50death. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that MOST(not everyone) but most of you guys that says the mp40 is OP, doesn't even own the game, or is just tired to get rape in RO2 and all they found out to do is to go cry on forums to make this game become imbalance, by nerfing/buffing everything related to this community. I really hope tripwire won't do their "Blizzard" like and do everything people wants whenever they see some dudes crying about something rediculous without any fact to proove it. Once again, MKB isn't the best weapon, mp40 doesn't need a nerf, ppsh needs less recoil, maybe restricting the auto-sniper to 2-3 would be nice too.

 

[Goten]

I see, Goten, you are one of those "everything is fine, just let me play with my Mkb" people. Every situational, sounds about right.

Spoiler!

Also, I love my sig, cheers me up every time.

edit: MP-40 may seem more powerful because 2 bullets hit almost the same spot thus killing the target. PPSh seems weaker because of its immense recoil - the 2nd and 3rd bullet often go wild and hit arms and other non-vital organs.

Of course you love your sig: it's not the full sentence, you just took the part that you saw interesting distorting what I said ... if distorting is a hard word for you it's basically lying. The full "quote", as I remember, was something like "MP40 requires some skill, PPSH requires a target". So for all of you who read the truncated crap Vesper loves: I haven't implied that mp40 takes more skill than a rifle or semi-auto, it was just a MP40 vs PPSH debate. And I still feel the same.

Facts:
1. most of the time I finish first or second (for idiots this is bragging, for others it's just info so you know my knowledge of the problem)

2. I rarely use MkB, actually after I get it to 25 I think I'm done with it.
Reasons: big recoil, bad spread, usually takes 2 burst to kill a guy, it's heavy -> you're slower, reloads harder than mp40. And most of all it's not as good as MP40 in CQB and not as good as a G41 in large distances.

3. When I see a PPSH on the ground I take it (this is the gratest compliment I can give to the weapon).

4. I said before: In CQB when MP40 meets PPSH, MP40 dies. In CQB when MkB meets PPSH, MkB dies. It's all about the rate of fire and spread (PPSH has more spread, but in CQB this is a good thing - obvious it doesn't have to be TOO big).

The problem with the PPSH sprayer ... sorry user (joke, don't send angry PMs), it's that they can't kill as effective on large distances that they can on short-medium ones. As I said it before: it's called game balancing and the PPSH will not be the universal weapon they desire. But ... keep dreaming, who knows ...

 

[hishnik]

...clipped...
And 9mm isn't that much more powerful than 7.62 Tokarev when given the proper loadings (which i suspect was higher than modern pistol loads.)

There is more than just loading on ammo to this, but you should compare 9mm Parabellum vs. 7.62x25 Tokarev

Unus Offa and myself had quite a thread conversation on that matter, starts around here

As for OP... May i suggest trying all the weapons in question? And by trying, i dont mean pick it up shoot at the wall and toss out. I mean make a plan, play four or five maps as German Assault with MP40, then with MKB, then switch teams and play as Russian Assault for four or five maps. For ultimate experience, you'll have same maps to play with those weapons. It's an 'interesting' experience to say the least.
Really points out the 'situational use' that Monk has presented so well.

And yes, i do believe that there are guns that are much better for all around use, and MP40 is definitely one of them

No offense with anyone here. I'm playing Axis 24/7. I can't tell much about russians weapons, sadly. What I can say for sure is, mp40 is way better then the MKB. Does that make the mp40 OP? Hell no. You guys that call it a laser gun or w.e the term you use, you're wrong. This game is one of the most balance FPS we have right now. PPSH would need indeed less recoil for sure, but nerfing the mp40? Are you guys freaking kidding me? I'm probably way better then any1 that post here in this forum(no offense, just saying the facts here, don't take it personaly), I've seen TONS of assaults player using the mp40 and guess what, they were so freaking bad with it, couldn't hit the target at all (and ya guess what, spraying your 32 ammos doesn't work AT ALL) So, to everyone that says the mp40 needs a nerf, I'd suggest you guys to go play with it, and post your stats on this thread to show everyone how "OP" the mp40 is. Cause in MY book, an OP gun would be, 1000kills vs 50death. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that MOST(not everyone) but most of you guys that says the mp40 is OP, doesn't even own the game, or is just tired to get rape in RO2 and all they found out to do is to go cry on forums to make this game become imbalance, by nerfing/buffing everything related to this community. I really hope tripwire won't do their "Blizzard" like and do everything people wants whenever they see some dudes crying about something rediculous without any fact to proove it. Once again, MKB isn't the best weapon, mp40 doesn't need a nerf, ppsh needs less recoil, maybe restricting the auto-sniper to 2-3 would be nice too.

Gosu, honestly, no trolling... Are you high? That was one of most disrespectful posts with no truth behind it, and no argument in it that I've seen on here in a while... Pipe it down... And i believe that most of people here, do NOT make a habit of 'talking out of their arse', meaning talking about something they have no clue on... As in to have an opinion on these guns you have to have played the game, and be either a. killed by it, or b. used it yourself (<< preferred choice)

 

[Hicks]

I don't always play Allies. But when I do, I chose the Pahpahsha.

 

[Hicks]

There is more than just loading on ammo to this, but you should compare 9mm Parabellum vs. 7.62x25 Tokarev

Unus Offa and myself had quite a thread conversation on that matter, starts around here

As for OP... May i suggest trying all the weapons in question? And by trying, i dont mean pick it up shoot at the wall and toss out. I mean make a plan, play four or five maps as German Assault with MP40, then with MKB, then switch teams and play as Russian Assault for four or five maps. For ultimate experience, you'll have same maps to play with those weapons. It's an 'interesting' experience to say the least.
Really points out the 'situational use' that Monk has presented so well.

And yes, i do believe that there are guns that are much better for all around use, and MP40 is definitely one of them

Sure I would agree that the MP40 is a decent all around weapon, if you are playing in a small map. But once you hit the big fields like Spartanovka, usually the wisest thing to do is to rush as quickly as possible to the areas where enemy players will show up closer to you. And when you enter the dangerous close range engagements, you'll never make me believe that the MP40 is better than the ppsh.

As a rifleman player, I always tend to pickup a ppsh over an mp40 from the ground when possible. And for good reasons.

 

[burninglegionx]

The problem with PPSH is that it is a niche weapon for close quarter combat only. You can't do any long-range sharp shooting with PPSH.

On the other hand, MP40 and MKB are very good even at 100m. On maps that have majority of battles that take place below 50m range, PPSH might prove very effective, but not all maps have such close-quarter battles. In addition, in MKB vs PPSH in close quarter combat, MKB's penetration gives it certain edge over PPSH while PPSH have its advantages in drum mag & rate of fire. So I'd call those two more or less even in CQC. PPSH, especially with drum mag, has a small advantage over mp40 in CQC as PPSH can suppress the mp40 user and simply side-strafe and mow him down while the mp40 user is stuck behind his cover. But both MP40 and PPSH can drop a player in 2~3 shots, so it really depends on how good the player's skill is (skill being not just one's ability to react, aim, and shoot. But also one's knowledge about the map and the timing between enemy's spawn waves, etc)

AVT, on the other hand, falls short as a CQC weapon vs MKB & MP40 due to its 10-rd mag. AVT is basically using SVT with rapid mouse clicks.

In the end, the best automatic short-range guns are PPSH & MKB.

And the best automatic medium~long range guns are MKB & MP40 & AVT fired in short bursts.

And as the Russian assault class has to choose between PPSH & AVT for the battle situation they're in while the German assaults can simply pick MKB and is good to go for any battle conditions, the German side has an advantage.

In addition, sqd ldr & commanders have to choose between PPSH/SVT and MP40/G41. But because many maps feature firefights that take place within 80m, a MP40 wielder can be very effective at medium~long range fights while the Russian counterparts have to choose between long-range weapon or short-range weapon, giving Germans an advantage in weapon loadouts and firepower.

This advantage isn't always causing Russians to lose their battles. But it certainly plays a part in Russian team's defeat. How significant is this disadvantage for Russians? I don't know. But if I have a choice, I'd pick MKB over AVT & PPSH. And I'd pick MP40 over G41 as German sqd ldr on many of the maps in RO2 just because mp40 is a great gun for most of the fire-fights that take place in RO2 while G41 & PPSH is limited to longer-range and CQC respectively.

 

[Mekhazzio]

Of the two SMGs, I lean towards the PPSh too. It comes down to role specialization. While the MP40 is unquestionably the better of the two SMGs for medium ranges, it's still not as good at medium range as a rifle is, so I'd rather just stick with a rifle or avoid medium range engagements entirely. If I'm taking a SMG at all, it's because I intend to do close-in work, and for that, you just don't get any better than the PPSh. The ROF and mag size advantages it has are dominant in pretty much any close-quarters situation.

Specialization is the same reason I rarely pick up a MKb. If you were forced to always use the weapon you spawn with, the MKb would be a great all-around weapon to go with, but there's so many dropped weapons laying around that you have a large variety to choose from and can pick what's best suited to the task at hand.

 

[Clowndoe]

Sure I would agree that the MP40 is a decent all around weapon, if you are playing in a small map. But once you hit the big fields like Spartanovka, usually the wisest thing to do is to rush as quickly as possible to the areas where enemy players will show up closer to you. And when you enter the dangerous close range engagements, you'll never make me believe that the MP40 is better than the ppsh.

As a rifleman player, I always tend to pickup a ppsh over an mp40 from the ground when possible. And for good reasons.

I was not under the impression that anyone was trying to make you believe the MP40 was better than the PPSH in CQC. Like you said, the MP40 is a decent all-round weapon. The Papasha is a close-quarters specialist. The point, I hope, was to make the guns lifelike and let players' attitudes balance it out, i.e., Russian assaults will try to get in close to compensate for the crazy recoil. The MP40, however will very easily duel with riflemen on the 'long' ranges on this map because it has good medium range accuracy, which for this argument's sake I'll say is 100m. And since these maps are quite small, medium is the longest we get most of the time, thus the common (and in some ways justified) complaint that the MP40 is a laser. To me the only good way to balance it while not having to nerf the weapons ahistorically is to bring up the weapon ratios to more realistic numbers, but then can't help but feel these maps are supposed to be representing prepared attacks by assault units, who logically would have stocked up on assault weapons (PPSH's and MP40's in this case), but I digress.

Anyway... I also think that the MKb 42 is a bit too good in all situations (Pretty sure it's as accurate as a G41 if you fire it one shot at a time), but I really don't think it really improves people's scores by that much, unless someone were to show me a graph or statistics for kill/death ratios compared to the MP40.

 

[burninglegionx]

I think the only reason MKB user isn't dominating the battlefield is because many of the MKB'ers are not using their gun properly. i.e. They should use it like a 30rd semi-auto rifle and play like a elite riflemen picking off enemy from medium range while using the 30rd advantage to dominate enemy's semi-auto & boltaction users. Then once you thinned down the enemy's initial spawn wave, you rush up and set up another firing position to face enemy's next spawn wave.

 

[Mekhazzio]

I think the only reason MKB user isn't dominating the battlefield

Well, really, weapon choice is not going to be what dictates dominating the battlefield in a game like RO2. The large bulk of kills are on targets that don't see their shooter, or are caught by surprise, or are moving against prepared positions and thus at an initiative and/or cover disadvantage. Weapon stats simply don't come into the equation most of the time. Even if there was some amazing superweapon that was better in every way, it wouldn't have a huge impact even if an entire team was equipped with it.