Mp38

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Crni-Wuk

FNG / Fresh Meat
Oct 16, 2010
70
25
0
no

The MP18.1 manufactured by Theodor Bergmann Waffenbau Abteilung was the first practical submachine gun used in combat. It was introduced into service in 1918 by the German Army during World War I as the primary weapon of the Stosstruppen, assault groups specialized in trench combat. Although MP18 production ended in the 1920s, its design formed the basis of most submachine guns manufactured between 1920 and 1960.

I doubt the Mp18 was inherently more reliable then the MP40 though.
 

Otto Fuhrmann

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 13, 2010
229
163
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Rep. of Ireland
I very much doubt there would have been MP-18's in service in 1942. I mean, the German army was not lacking in weapons to equip front line soldiers with a long out of date weapon. Maybe at best police and auxiliary forces might have used them. Same goes for the MP-38. I'm sure that by 1942-'43 all of the MP38's would be long out of service and replaced with the cheaper and easier to produce MP-40.
 

Ts4EVER

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 12, 2010
160
38
0
I doubt they would have actually rotated out the MP38 considering how similar it was to the MP40. My guess is that some soldiers who survived long enough still had them at that point.
The MP18-derivative smgs (MP28. MP34, MP35, EMP35 etc) were mostly used by second line troops as well as Waffen SS. IIRC there is a Photo of two Luftwaffe ground personnel taken near Stalingrad where both are carrying MP34s. Considering these weapons have a much finer finish than the mP38/40 I doubt they would be technically inferior. It's more a question of resupply and replacement parts.
 

Otto Fuhrmann

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 13, 2010
229
163
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Rep. of Ireland
I doubt anyone, even a verteran would have kept one of them that long without it being rotated out, Either being rearmed after France or whatever front, it being damaged or just needing replacment parts because they were designed in different ways. The MP-40 being stamped metal instead of the machine parts used by the MP-38. It would make sense for the Wehrmacht to have equiped all of there active front line soldiers with the most up to date weapons, seeing as at this point in the war they were pumping them out by the thousands.
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
6,293
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Prussotroll's Bridge
It would make sense for the Wehrmacht to have equiped all of there active front line soldiers with the most up to date weapons, seeing as at this point in the war they were pumping them out by the thousands.

In theory, yes, in practice, no.

The MP-38 was manufactured from 1938 to 1940, after that it was replaced (in production) by the MP-40. Although there were an additional 12,000 assembled during 1941. Total production numbers are somewhere around 52,000.

From late 1940 to early 1942 (anything after early 1942 is unlikely to have arrived at Stalingrad in time) Germany produced roughly 200,000 MP-40's.

This means that roughly one in 5 MP's produced up to that date was an MP-38. For units in constant fighting from early 1942 to Stalingrad (as was the case with most units in and around Stalingrad) it's unlikely that any of the MP-40's produced from early 1942 onwards would have reached them. Now, it's unlikely that any unit not being refurbished got an extensive amount of new weapons, meaning that units that didn't get drawn back to Germany for refurbishment are way less likely to have received a lot of freshly produced weapons.

Remember that if a weapon is produced it's going to spend some time in a warehouse somewhere in Germany, then it would be shipped off to the east, spend some more time in a warehouse, then be shipped towards the front, spend more time in a warehouse, be handed out to a Division or Battalion in the reequipment phase, spend some time there.

Generally, I'd guess that one in 4-5 MP's would have been an MP-38 for units in Stalingrad.


Now, the only problem is that all but early production MP-38's are nearly indistinguishable from MP-40's.
 
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Unterscharfuhrer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Nov 17, 2010
1,072
176
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Somewhere Else
In theory, yes, in practice, no.

The MP-38 was manufactured from 1938 to 1940, after that it was replaced (in production) by the MP-40. Although there were an additional 12,000 assembled during 1941. Total production numbers are somewhere around 52,000.

From late 1940 to early 1942 (anything after early 1942 is unlikely to have arrived at Stalingrad in time) Germany produced roughly 200,000 MP-40's.

This means that roughly one in 5 MP's produced up to that date was an MP-38. For units in constant fighting from early 1942 to Stalingrad (as was the case with most units in and around Stalingrad) it's unlikely that any of the MP-40's produced from early 1942 onwards would have reached them.

Remember that if a weapon is produced it's going to spend some time in a warehouse somewhere in Germany, then it would be shipped off to the east, spend some more time in a warehouse, then be shipped towards the front, spend more time in a warehouse, be handed out to a Division in the reequipment phase, spend some time there.

Generally, I'd guess that one in 4-5 MP's would have been an MP-38 for units in Stalingrad.


Now, the only problem is that all but early production MP-38's are nearly indistinguishable from MP-40's.

Impossible, Lemon, everytime I wanna write something smart you allready written something smarter!:D
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
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Impossible, Lemon, everytime I wanna write something smart you allready written something smarter!:D

128829043967769152.jpg


:p
 

cameron.

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 2, 2011
46
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Now, the only problem is that all but early production MP-38's are nearly indistinguishable from MP-40's.

well then clearly TWI has already implmented MP-38's in the correct quantities and has only called them MP-40's to bettter simulate the confusion and apathy of the newly drafted frontline soldier over slight variations in weapons
 

Actin

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 19, 2009
1,453
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Netherlands
well then clearly TWI has already implmented MP-38's in the correct quantities and has only called them MP-40's to bettter simulate the confusion and apathy of the newly drafted frontline soldier over slight variations in weapons

And what exactly are those aesthatic differences, now if there is a thread about it then show them. Seeing the picture from op doesn't give me a clue, was a MP 40 as far as I could tell...

edit: Actually I just noticed on a second look it weren't the same guns at all (saw the mag well).
lol?
 

LemoN

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 26, 2006
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well then clearly TWI has already implmented MP-38's in the correct quantities and has only called them MP-40's to bettter simulate the confusion and apathy of the newly drafted frontline soldier over slight variations in weapons

My remark was towards photos, as only pre-production models had the grooves all along the receiver, later ones only had them in the part above the mag-well, then a break, and then the body of the receiver, which is rather hard to spot in most photos.

The mag-well also isn't that easy to distinguish as the early production production MP-40 wag-well is, spare the weight saving drill hole, very similar to the MP-38.

Below are early and normal production run MP-40's.

MP40_19022009_02.jpg


MP40_19022009_04.jpg






Normal production MP-38

mp_38_03a.jpg


And now, here's an early MP-40.
mp40_0041.jpg



Now, In regards to spotting:

mp40_0004.jpg



See what I mean? That's an MP-38 btw.

And as soon as it gets anywhere near combat:

stalingrad-mp40.jpg


Impossible to tell.


Anyway, I don't really see the point for implementing the MP-38 in HoS since the MP-38 and MP-40 are so incredibly similar and nearly impossible to identify on most pictures.
 
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