Movements While Prone

[Nightingale]

Hi, I've been lurking here for a while now and just thought of something which I think would really set RO2 apart from other shooters.

In most first-person shooters, it is possible to look behind you very quickly by jerking the mouse left or right very quickly. This usually results in the entire soldier's body rotating very quickly on the ground in an unrealistic and quite game-y fashion.

Looking at the free aim system, I would assume that this sort of unrealistic animation would be partially mitigated by the free aim system for small movements, but would still leave the problem of soldiers suddenly spinning backwards and forwards all the time.

I know TWI has already put a lot of effort into making RO2's player animations as smooth and seamless as possible, so this may not need to be said at all... but I think it would add a lot to the game's immersion if turning while prone was a very slow and tedious process, and if players instead had the option of flipping onto their backs to look behind them. This would improve maneuverability when prone around walls, since you would not have to rotate on your axis to look behind you.

How does that sound? Or have I made a duplicate thread? If so, my apologies; it's difficult to find keywords for such a specific thing.

 

[Dsquad]

That would be cool, laying on your back shooting your rifle at someone who's coming from behind. I can't remember a tread with this idea so you're save with that

 

[RedGuardist]

That would be cool, laying on your back shooting your rifle at someone who's coming from behind.

Yeah, go on, try that one. I guarantee you

 

[LogisticEarth]

This idea has been talked about before, but not in depth. It certainly is a problem with most games where "prone spinning" is a problem. It's a pain in the butt in ROOST when you sneak up behind someone who's gone prone, and they're able to whip around quickly without dropping from iron sights, and shoot you. Totally unrealistic.

What I'd like to see is that, if you're prone and in iron sights, you have a certain range of movement, which if you move out of too quickly, you'll drop out of iron sights, and a second range of movement beyond that, which if you move out of, your weapon will drop down (as when moving while prone) as you shift your body in the new direction.

Hard to describe without pictures, but hopefully you get the point.

EDIT: Yeah the whole "rolling over and attempting to shoot your rifle from a reverse-prone position" is a bit over the top. With a full-power rifle that's going to leave some nasty marks unless you're shooting almost straight up, heh.

EDIT 2: This would make the gamey "going prone in a corner" defense a much less viable tactic.

 

[RedGuardist]

What I'd like to see is that, if you're prone and in iron sights, you have a certain range of movement, which if you move out of too quickly, you'll drop out of iron sights, and a second range of movement beyond that, which if you move out of, your weapon will drop down (as when moving while prone) as you shift your body in the new direction.

Very good idea. Hopefully something like this will be in. Would be a major innovation in making movement more realistic and cutting of the gamey exploits.

 

[locogringojc]

To be honest even if you do roll while you're prone you've got to resituate your gun which is timely. Plus in reality you are bumping your elbows while trying to bring it up etc. I also can't stand 360degree prone spinning bastards, but I think HOS they should restrict prone movements most definitely.

 

[roeland666]

yes indeed, i really hate those spinning people! but is it not easier if you stand behind someone and that person wants to look behind him that you'll see his head turn to look behind him not just his whole body but just his head? and that his weapon still pointing forward, i bet Tripwire can make a animation or just a movement of looking over your shoulder?

 

[Zetsumei]

It would be nice that when prone that you can only move your gun around the free aim region and a bit more and that when going beyond that you basically only turn your head to look backwards.

 

[Nightingale]

I think I should clarify. The focus of my post was more on the actual body movements of the soldier while prone, rather than shooting while on his back with a rifle. LogisticEarth described something quite similar to my idea. There should be a small range where the soldier can aim his weapon without having to move the rest of his body (done through free aim), but outside that range the soldier should have to use his arms and legs to slowly rotate himself left or right to reposition himself for firing. The flipping on the back was only for when you need to look behind you, rather than spinning about at superhuman speed and thwacking your legs against whatever vertical surface happened to be right next to you. Optionally, you could hold a key to fix your orientation and use the A and D keys to shimmy left and right slowly for small adjustments without rotation of the body.

This also ties in with changing directions (left or right) while crawling. Under the traditional animation system, the entire body body, including legs and arms just swing left and right when the player wants to crawl slightly to the left or right while moving forwards. What should be happening is that movement of the soldier should be centered on his upper torso and arms rather than his belly; he should be dragging the rest of his body with his arms, just like how the front section of a bendy bus drags the back with it when it turns.

And while the focus of my post wasn't on actually being able to shoot while in the supine position, I would think that a soldier could reliably fire a handgun in that position. Correct me if I am mistaken; I've never fired a gun or anything of the sort, and have no military experience so basic knowledge and common sense are all I have.

 

[The_Emperor]

This thread brings something to my mind I just recently noticed again in a RO video on youtube. In Ostfront it was/is possible to crawl forward with both your hands on the gun while aiming down the sights. You only moved slowly but I feel it's unrealistic to me. Just a hint for doing things better.

 

[Nimsky]

Reducing prone spinning speed would be nice, but only if freelook is added. Otherwise you can't take a quick peek to your left, right and behind you. Otherwise I'd prefer the old way.

 

[LogisticEarth]

And while the focus of my post wasn't on actually being able to shoot while in the supine position, I would think that a soldier could reliably fire a handgun in that position. Correct me if I am mistaken; I've never fired a gun or anything of the sort, and have no military experience so basic knowledge and common sense are all I have.

Yeah, it's reasonable to fire a handgun that way, would still be awkward and not nearly as effective as a proper stance, but it would work.

Alternatively (and this is getting a bit advanced to expect in the game), you could have a position where you would roll over, then sit up. This would allow you to fire mostly anything. Not the most stable position, but better than nothing.

 

[RedGuardist]

And while the focus of my post wasn't on actually being able to shoot while in the supine position, I would think that a soldier could reliably fire a handgun in that position. Correct me if I am mistaken; I've never fired a gun or anything of the sort, and have no military experience so basic knowledge and common sense are all I have.

What do you mean by handgun? With pistols and revolvers it would be possible. But with SMGs it would be awkward and with rifles very, very awkward. Hardly that usable tactic. And if you managed to take a shot, it would above all be very inaccurate fire. It

 

[LogisticEarth]

Red, I forget if you're a native English speaker or not, but "handgun" almost exclusively refers to pistols, revolvers, and the like. Not "longarms" like rifles or shotguns, and not SMGs.

 

[RedGuardist]

Red, I forget if you're a native English speaker or not, but "handgun" almost exclusively refers to pistols, revolvers, and the like. Not "longarms" like rifles or shotguns, and not SMGs.

Ok. Thanks for the elaboration. I

 

[Federico 76]

Well, the "prone problem" has already been discussed before, and yes, i agree that the old system should be improved: in RO you can go prone every time you want, doesn't matter if around you there is not enough space to do it.
I think there should be a system that, before you're allowed to go prone, it recognize if around you there is enough speace to perform this kind of actions.
This kind of system is pretty much common in other games where the prone position is implemented.
Also, as someone said before, the prone rotation should slow down after a certain angle and moving prone while ironsighted should be denied.

 

[The_Emperor]

Well CoD series and it's "prone blocked" did a moderate job as sometimes you literally punch the key cause you simply don't go prone. Of course if you try to go prone in a telephone cell it won't work but let's say you're standing outside but directly next to the telephone cell and hit the prone key, how about your character moves forward, just enough to allow you to go prone?

 

[VariousNames]

Hi, I've been lurking here for a while now and just thought of something which I think would really set RO2 apart from other shooters.

In most first-person shooters, it is possible to look behind you very quickly by jerking the mouse left or right very quickly. This usually results in the entire soldier's body rotating very quickly on the ground in an unrealistic and quite game-y fashion.

Looking at the free aim system, I would assume that this sort of unrealistic animation would be partially mitigated by the free aim system for small movements, but would still leave the problem of soldiers suddenly spinning backwards and forwards all the time.

I know TWI has already put a lot of effort into making RO2's player animations as smooth and seamless as possible, so this may not need to be said at all... but I think it would add a lot to the game's immersion if turning while prone was a very slow and tedious process, and if players instead had the option of flipping onto their backs to look behind them. This would improve maneuverability when prone around walls, since you would not have to rotate on your axis to look behind you.

How does that sound? Or have I made a duplicate thread? If so, my apologies; it's difficult to find keywords for such a specific thing.

Free aim in ironsights is not realistic because the eyes look down the sights and the face is aligned directly parallel to the sights. Unless you are using free look, which is different, free aim is unrealistic.

Now:

If you want to slow down people's turning, there's this cool property in physics called inertia that will do exactly that when simulated. It's not only realistic, it's good gameplay.

Also, simulation of the frictional force between the contact point of your prone body and the ground would make turning more realistic.

 

[Serathis]

The only game I remember handling prone realistically was Ghost Recon. Slow turning in a limited radius.

 

[Reise]

I like to think of free-aim as that bit of "wiggle room" you have when you're actually aiming a rifle at the shoulder. But somehow even other people who are also shooters like me still disagree with that.

But anyway, while laying down, the amount of wiggle room you have is considerably more limited due to the arms supporting the weapon on the ground. So I definitely agree with previous posts suggesting that past a certain threshold the avatar has to stop aiming and use his arms to reposition. Vertical aiming should also be seriously limited as well.

Like in the previous prone discussions I would also like seeing some way for the game to recognize that your body wouldn't fit in certain areas like CoD's "prone blocked" feature.

Beyond those things though, I can't think of anything else to improve.