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MLAA/FXAA are inferior to traditional AA in RO2

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Spank_thru101

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 8, 2011
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#1
Note: this is for Nvida cards only, hopefully a fix pops up for team red in the near future.

Some of you may like the new shader implemented AA modes, after all they leave a small memory footprint, offer lightning fast "AA", and better frames in comparison to traditional MSAA/SSAA/FSAA/CSAA...some of you may not like them.

If you have a Nvidia card you may have tried to force AA manually via the NVCP, only to find out that nothing happens. In order to force any type of AA of your choosing you will need one thing, Nvidia Inspector.

1. Open your Nvidia Control Panel and select the Manage 3D Settings tab.
2. Click the Program Settings tab.
3. Click Add. Now navigate to your RO2 install directory and add the games .exe (e.g. C:/Program Files/Steam/SteamApps/Common/RedOrchestra2Beta/Binaries/Win32/ROgame.exe)
4. Once the profile is added, manually change a setting (e.g. under "AntiAilising - Transparency"...change it to "Multisample"). The key is to manually change a setting so it is in bold and black. A manually changed setting is needed to create a modified profile which will later be accessed in Nvidia Inspector.
5. Click Apply the settings and exit NVCP.

...Now...

1. Download Nvidia Inspector
2. Install it.
3. Open it and click the small Driver Profile Settings button, it appears as two crossed tools icon on the right hand side directly after the driver version text.
4. Once to "Profile Settings" menu appears, click on the "User Modified Profiles" button on the top, the icon for it is a house.
5. Select the Red Orchestra 2 profile.
6. Click on AntiAilising Compatibility (third option in the menu), a drop down menu should appear, select 0x080100c5 (Mass Effect I, Mass Effect II).
7. Further down is AntiAilising Mode, click on that and select Override Any Application setting.
8. There are three options/settings directly below the AntiAilising Mode button, you have your choice as to what to use. Unless you know what you are doing, stick with CSAA and MSAA*.
9. Click apply in the top right hand corner.

*Avoid "SuperSampling" and "Combined Modes" unless you have vram from future as they rely blowing the picture resolution up by 2x/4x/etc and then downsample the image to rid unwanted jaggies - it looks nice, but we invented MSAA for a reason...

Lastly...you need to have FXAA/MLAA off ingame in order to use this properly.

Screenshots on Ultra with 8xCSAA for proof

http://i.imgur.com/w01nP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qr3l4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qzGA3.jpg

Edit: For the record I want to state that not only does the game look better with traditional AA, but it also performs better on my system in comparison to both FXAA and MLAA.

There unfortunately is one issue with this method currently and that is the squad selection screen and the weapon selection screen - they both disappear when you force AA (see this thread for image examples - http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showthread.php?t=58309&highlight=weapon+selection). If anyone at TWI are listening, please fix this - this is an extremely simple problem. Do not make us live with MLAA or FXAA - they are poor choices in comparison.

Edit: Here is a thread with some comparison shots, note the FPS increase with CSAA vs MLAA
 
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#5
MLAA/FXAA are inferior to traditional AA in RO2

Your mileage will vary according to you hardware and config, and I will admit this is far from a scientific benchmark, but on my system forced AA gives a better IQ and performance over the MLAA/FXAA. Currently there is one tiny issue with forcing AA with Nvidia cards, see here how to force it and the issues with it.

Some shots showing IQ and FPS, all settings ultra:

MLAA

FXAA High

FXAA Low

No AA

Forced 8xCSAA

The issue is minor and pertains to the weapon/team selection screen. I beg for someone at TWI to fix it.
 
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#8
The UDK didn't even get DX11 support until last spring, I doubt TWI are going to go to the lengths to implement it post-release? If I am wrong and they have stated otherwise, please point me in the right direction...but that is completely besides the point because Nvidia cards currently support forcing AA perfectly fine - its one minor issue with their load-out screen, implementing DX11 to allow AA support would be more intensive and costly. On top of that the games gets better frames (CSAA offers a 20% boost over MLAA).

I hear ya, I don't mean to be all crazy-like, I just cannot stand fake-pp AA and vector-based blur AA...neither have ever looked pretty to me.
 
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#13
Traditional AA looks like "donkey dung" on a deferred rendering engine. It results in things getting a white outline and more jagginess depending on the situation.

That is why we opted to use AA methods that works with the way the engine works. FXAA takes little performance hit but looks a worse, MLAA looks better but takes a bigger performance hit. That is why they are set up in the scale that they are.
 
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#14
Yoshiro said:
Traditional AA looks like "donkey dung" on a deferred rendering engine. It results in things getting a white outline and more jagginess depending on the situation.

That is why we opted to use AA methods that works with the way the engine works. FXAA takes little performance hit but looks a worse, MLAA looks better but takes a bigger performance hit. That is why they are set up in the scale that they are.
Click to expand...

First - MANY THANKS FOR THE REPLY - Seriously. Thank you. I hear you on the "AA with deferred engine = white lines" issue, that is true, but it is barely noticeable and it hasn't stopped the droves of other games/devs who have used it. FXAA and MLAA, while providing great IQ when static, offer muddy/unlcear visuals at distance and when in motion.

I only ask that someone please take an afternoon and look at the issue that I brought up (weapon loadout screen not appearing) because the game is rather gorgeous with AA and gets better mileage from my hardware.

Do these look like "donkey dung"?

http://i.imgur.com/aC97w.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HIccY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fSob7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2wqSi.jpg
 
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#15
Spank_thru101 said:
Try it out, it'll take two minutes tops and is completely reversible. I play at 1680x1050 with a GTX470. The main point of this guide is that for some it will A) increase image quality, and B) increase frames per second. I get 20% more frames with 8xCSAA over MLAA.
Click to expand...

This man speaks the truth, i also advise any Tripwire devs here to try it out themselves. Perhaps you only tried it in the early stages of development and it looked arse, but whatever the case, it looks AMAZING with the current engine / post-processing.

Hardly any visible "white outlines" what so ever. I mean it is not noticeable.
The main thing is, we have 2 diff AA settings to choose from here, why not include this in the menu as an option?
1 gives no tiny outlines but incredibly jaggy "broken" AA at a distance (where it matters the most, in a game based on ranged warfare and making out moving targets)
1 gives tiny outlines but ZERO jagginess.

The thing is, in this game the absolutely most important thing is to be able to quickly and easily make out a moving target at a distance. With the current AA options in the game the entire scene flickers and jaggies around when zooming or moving the mouse. It is hard to make out a soldier in a dark window from the other pixels flickering all around him!

I just tried this and was amazed at how much better it was.. For GAMEPLAY!!
The very INSTANT my instincts picked up on a moving target in the distance, i KNEW it was a soldier. With the other AA options that just doesnt happen, there is a 1-2 sec delay in your mind as your brain and eyes try to decipher if you really did see a soldier or if it was just the immersion breaking pixels flickering.

Please TW devs, support this AA method (CSAA).
It makes a massive improvement not just to visuals, but also to the entire feel of the gameplay. It is of absolute importance in a game like this to be able to have a clear clean scene that doesnt flicker.
Please... :(
 
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#16
8xS, and 8xQ both look spectacular, but lag too much on my Nvidia.

Spank_thru101 said:
I will admit that FXAA and MLAA look nice when the image is static, but in motion they are terrible, jaggy, and blurry.
Click to expand...

I never knew UE3 can flicker this mutch. Sure its more less fine standing still...Setting textures to HQ in control panel also helps somewhat
 
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#17
atomMan said:
8xS, and 8xQ both look spectacular, but lag too much on my Nvidia.



I never knew UE3 can flicker this mutch. Sure its more less fine standing still...Setting textures to HQ in control panel also helps somewhat
Click to expand...

HQ textures are nice, but with PP style AA everything gets a little blurred and that HQ image looses its crispness and details further than 25m look like crud and are indistinguishable when in motion. Try shooting targets at 150m with FXAA vs MSAA.

Besides that...why would I want to use inferior FXAA/MLAA, have my frame rate lowered, and lose my ability to distinguish distant targets when I can use MSAA and gain frames?
 
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#18
Yoshiro said:
Traditional AA looks like "donkey dung" on a deferred rendering engine. It results in things getting a white outline and more jagginess depending on the situation.

That is why we opted to use AA methods that works with the way the engine works. FXAA takes little performance hit but looks a worse, MLAA looks better but takes a bigger performance hit. That is why they are set up in the scale that they are.
Click to expand...

Problem is effects like DOF and bloom ruin the effect anywhere but within a few feet of your immediate vicinity.

I've been playing with AA off and I honestly can't see the benefit in using any of the offered modes.
 
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