MKb 42(H) vs. MP 43

[Stephen]

So the MKb 42(H) is a hero weapon which most of us will have to unlock by ranking up? How exactly did the later MP 43 assault rifle differ from this prototype, and is it likely to be included in a later patch or DLC pack?

Was the MP 43 simply a limited run stopgap between the MKb 42(H) (prototype) and the MP 44 (full production run)?

I know the proper MP 44 is outside of the game's time frame but obviously TWI are using a bit of 'poetic license' in terms of rare/hero weapons; Steam says ' July 1942 to February 1943' so technically we could have some sort of FG 42 prototype somewhere down the line, but I couldn't find much information on the specific history of the MP 43 so I'm not sure how exactly it differs from the MKb 42(H), which has of course been confirmed and is in numerous screenshots.

Then there's the MG 42 of course... :IS2:

 

[NightriderAOF]

Only the MKB42 is in HoS, not the MP43.

 

[Stephen]

I know.

 

[Wesreidau]

One was a machine karbine, which Hitler thought was a stupid idea. The other was a machine pistol, which Hitler thought was the best thing since sliced bread. Beyond that I would suppose they are functionally identical with only technical details changed with the weapon itself.

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

Infact Hitler thought the Machine Pistol was so good he had it renamed to Assault Rifle. At the same time he also had the Gewehr 43 renamed to Karabiner 43, but sadly, very few people recognize that, even though almost all existing "Gewehr 43" still around today have Karabiner 43 inscribed on them. On that note, I'm not sure what most StG44's have inscribed on them.

 

[Stephen]

So does anyone know what the functional differences between the MKb and the MP 43 would be?

 

[Viersbovsky]

There is a good read at worldguns about the differences and development history.

Biggest difference between the MKb and Mp/Stg is that the MKb shot from an open bolt exclusively, while the Mp/Stg fires from a closed bolt.
I had the great fortune to be able to shoot a MG74 (revamped, improved MG42) at a military fair today. The bolt flying forward can seriously throw your aim off before the gun actually fires. I felt it was almost worse than the actual recoil.

The Mp/Stg remedied that problem. I would not know how that difference could be properly simulated in RO2. Maybe a bit longer time till the shot breaks, if that is even simulated ingame at all.

Otherwise, you would not find much difference.

 

[Clowndoe]

Apart from redesignating it to MP to make Hitler less suspicious, very little change was made.

From Wikipedia:
"Another set of modifications added a hinged cover over the ejection port to keep it clean in combat, and rails to mount a telescopic sight. A run of these modified MKb 42(H)s in late 1942 and early 1943 produced 11,833 guns for field trials.
Ultimately it was recommended that a hammer firing system operating from a closed bolt similar to Walther's design be incorporated. The gas expansion chamber over the barrel was deemed unnecessary, and was removed from successive designs, as was the underbarrel bayonet lug."

MP 43, 44, and the StG 44 were all the same weapon, the date being bumped up and changed to Sturm Gewehr to make it sound better and cooler.

All this is according to Wikipedia, so you may refute it or find something else if you don't trust that site.

 

[Wesreidau]

The original prototype of Haenel's design, the MKb 42(H), fired from an open bolt and used a striker for firing. The receiver and trigger housing with pistol grip were made from steel stampings, which were attached to the barrel assembly on a hinge, allowing the weapon to be folded open for quick disassembly and cleaning. The Haenel design proved superior to Walther's MKb 42(W), and the army then asked Haenel for another version incorporating a list of minor changes designated MKb 42(H). One was to include lugs for mounting a standard bayonet, another to change the pitch of the rifling. A production run of these modified versions was sent to the field in November 1942, and the users appreciated it with a few reservations. Another set of modifications added a hinged cover over the ejection port to keep it clean in combat, and rails to mount a telescopic sight. A run of these modified MKb 42(H)s in late 1942 and early 1943 produced 11,833 guns for field trials.
Ultimately it was recommended that a hammer firing system operating from a closed bolt similar to Walther's design be incorporated. The gas expansion chamber over the barrel was deemed unnecessary, and was removed from successive designs, as was the underbarrel bayonet lug.

So closed bolt, rifling pitch, dust cover, sight rails, and removed a gas expansion chamber. So really, the Mkb 42 is to the MP44 as the AR-15 is to the M16.

 

[Dulak]

So wait ... if the mp44 was my favorite weapons in RO - it wont be in RO2? will the mkb 42 function the same way? like fire the same way etc?

 

[Panzer Jager '43]

It will perform largely the same. 30 round magazines, semi and full-auto fire, with moderate recoil, accuracy, and stopping power. The only actual differences will be that 1) you'll have to unlock it 2) after that, you can unlock a bayonet and scope.

 

[Wesreidau]

But we apparently get the version with a bayonet lug and can mount a scope, so in those respects it is even better than the MP44.

 

[Joseph-Porta]

The flamesupressor thingie on the barrel was changed too =)

 

[Jorg Biermann1]

' July 1942 to February 1943' so technically we could have some sort of FG 42 prototype

FG42s were only used by the Fallshirmjager. There were no Fallshirmjager in Stalingrad (except like one regiment which got completly wiped out).

 

[Stephen]

Yeah, I Googled about that earlier. It's a shame, though I suppose you could still have a few lying about as high-level unlocks?

Come on, no game featuring the Wehrmacht is worth its salt without prototype stuff.

 

[Unus Offa Unus Nex]

Infact Hitler thought the Machine Pistol was so good he had it renamed to Assault Rifle. At the same time he also had the Gewehr 43 renamed to Karabiner 43, but sadly, very few people recognize that, even though almost all existing "Gewehr 43" still around today have Karabiner 43 inscribed on them. On that note, I'm not sure what most StG44's have inscribed on them.

Just to make sure that your message isn't misunderstood Hitler didn't rename all machine pistols as assault rifles, only the MP44. And he did this because he was so impressed by the battlefield reports about the weapon (MP43/44).

It was also an extraordinary weapon for its time, with an effective range over three times as long as that of any SMG and a 500-600 rpm cyclic rate (Apparently it could be adjusted by turning the gas regulator nob just above the barrel).

 

[Peter.Steele]

So closed bolt, rifling pitch, dust cover, sight rails, and removed a gas expansion chamber. So really, the Mkb 42 is to the MP44 as the AR-15 is to the M16.

No ...

The difference between an AR-15 and an M-16 receiver is a single extra hole drilled in the M-16 receiver, for the sear pin. Aside from that, there's a few differences on fire control parts, to prevent an AR from firing full auto.

There's your differences, in a nutshell. M-16 and AR-15 parts are pretty interchangeable. My AR-15, for instance, uses a military surplus upper receiver assembly (upper, barrel, handguard, sights, gas system, flash hider, etc.) from an M-16A1.

 

[Bluehawk]

I would've likened the MKb 42 to the AR-10.

 

[Peter.Steele]

I would've likened the MKb 42 to the AR-10.

Only insofar as it was a predecessor to the MP-44 / StG-44, as the AR-10 was a predecessor to the AR-15. There's far more differences.

First, the AR-15 fires an intermediate cartridge, while the AR-10 a full power cartridge. The MKb fires an intermediate cartridge, the same as its follow-ons. Second, the AR-10 and the AR-15 are functionally identical: the 15 is simply a scaled-down AR-10 to accommodate a smaller cartridge. The MKb had a completely different fire control setup from the follow-on weapons: open-bolt vs closed bolt, etc.

Also, of course, the AR-10 remains a popular sporting weapon on the civilian market to this day, and was in fact finally adopted in 2008 as the M110 sniper rifle by the US Army. The MKb was an evolutionary dead end.

 

[LemoN]

At the same time he also had the Gewehr 43 renamed to Karabiner 43

Makes sense, as the German way of designating rifles didn't have anything to do with the length of the barrel but with the way the sling was set up.

Regular straight infantry sling as seen on the G98 = Gewehr
Sling mounted sideways = Karabiner

This is because, traditionally, only cavalry units had the slings sideways, for obvious reasons. Below is a picture of the G98 with the regular straight sling, and all other carbine variants below, take specific note at the Kar98b (second from top). That said, the Germans, for whatever reasons, sometimes still named carbines rifles, as seen with the second from the bottom, the "Gewehr f