Minor point: Tank sight is "off"

[Mormegil]

Actually, it's a bit to on.

In 3.3, I noticed that when you fire you gun, you see a puff of smoke directly centered in the telescopic sight.

That implies that the sight is not only co-axial with the gun (as it should be), but actually in the gun barrel, looking straight out.

Just a minor point, but it couldn't be too hard to move the "camera" a little to the left (or right) to correct this. This would also introduce the realworld effect of parallax error when shooting at something really close.

And it would be cool to see that great smoke/blast effect rushing sideways across camera like it really would, instead of the little puff in the center of the screen.

 

[Richard_B.]

100% agree

 

[FYROM]

I've been wondering as well, whether we'll see different sights for the guns. I know that the magnification and fov changed between different tanks (for example: http://rkkaww2.armchairgeneral.com/weapons/sign_tanks.htm). The current tank sights seem a bit too crude to be effective in real life, especially since they lack range markings. This is the gunner's periscope view from a refurbished T-34 in Minnesota, although I don't know if its an original sight:

from: http://www.postbulletin.com/magazine/2005/07/index.shtml

Of course, given the rushed nature of a lot of the vehicle construction on the East Front, I wouldn't be suprised if the optics were rudiamentary

 

[[-project.sneaky-]]

looks more like a US sight picture to me

 

[Maschine Pistole-38]

looks more like a US sight picture to me

The Russians never really had good sights, so it would be common for them to use sights from German and even American tanks.

 

[[CoR]MiccyNarc]

Why don't we play the freaking game and find out what's already in it before we start posting suggestions like this.

 

[Pycckuu]

Well, this is not the grenades thread, and seeing how it was suggested for the first time in the history of RO, this thread gets to stay.

On the issue of tank sights. The sight in game is what was left over from UT2004, and has absolutely nothing to do with WW2. Now, about the sights on the Eastern front.

The L-11 gun equipped with the TOD-6 telescopic sight and PT-6 periscope panoramic sight. The F-34 gun equipped with TOD-7 telescopic sight and PT-7 panoramic sight, later they were replaced with a TMFD-7 telescopic and a PT-4-7 panoramic sight. Command tanks equipped with an additional PT-K panoramic observation sight.

TMFD-7 is the sight that was copied from a Panzer 3 sight(I can't remember the name), and I believe it was used on all vehicles with 76mm guns.

For direct fire with the D-5T gun, the TSh-15 telescopic sight and the PTK-5 periscopic sight were used. With the S-53 gun, the TSh-16 telescopic sight was used.

This, ofcourse, refers to the T-34-85. The tanks with D-5T gun were the earlier production versions.

The commander's cupola was shifted 63 mm to the left and the PT4-17 periscopic sight was changed to a MK-IV sight. A DShK anti-aircraft machine gun (designer P.P.Isakov) was installed on the commander's cupola. After that, no further significant changes were made to the turret until the end of the war.

This is refering to the IS-2. The same page mentions that the IS-1 tank used a 10T-5 sight, but says nothing on the issue of IS-2(you could assume it was the same, or I could do more research, but i probably won't).

In any case, you can probably find a decent picture of the reticule of each of these sights if you have proper litirature at hand(I do not, but I assume wilsonam should be able to find something in the books he has). Also, www.battlefield.ru has a much more detailed vehicle descriptions now, so if you look through there, you will be able to find most of the names of the sights used on Soviet vehicles.


p.s Wouldn't it be sweet if they added perescopes

 

[Mormegil]

Why don't we play the freaking game and find out what's already in it before we start posting suggestions like this.

Then we might as well get rid of the entire Ideas & Suggestions forum till then.

 

[FYROM]

Actually, after doing some more searching online, it seems like the current sights are more accurate after all:



From www.fprado.com, taken from Tigerfibel.

There's also an explanation on how the sights work: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Zeiss_Optics.htm

Each triangle in the sight was calibrated to equal a certain measurement at 1000 meters (for the Tiger, the large triangle equals 4 meters across, small triangle equals two meters). If you know the size of your target, you can then estimate the range by comparing the target size in the reticule. Then you adjust the range wheel, which aligns the sight to compensate for the drop over that distance. Now we just need a range wheel...

 

[Mormegil]

Thanks for the details Fyrom. I've been trying to figure out what the ring of numbers meant.

I'd be pleasantly surprised to see that kind of detail in the game. If Tripwire puts this in, I'd also expect the rifle IS to be adjustable for range.


As far as a range wheel would go, the intuitive way to do it would be the mouse wheel, but then a replacement would be required for changing gunner/commander positions.

The Forward and Back keys would be free.

Personally, while we're at it, I'd love to see the cupola views (both in and outside) decoupled from turret movement, and have the turret motion for these modes controlled by strafe left and right keys.



Note: It would appear the 3.3 optics don't seem to magnify enough, assuming all the tanks have the same FOV. For example, a Panther tank head on in the T-34's sights at 100 meters "bites" into the two small triangles halfway up the inner legs. According to the optics info (based on the Tiger), this would be 6 mils or 6 meters wide at 1000 meters range. That's equal to to 3 meters (Panther was 3.3 m wide) at 500 meters. So it looks like the optics are about 5 times weaker magnification than in real life. With the ranges in this game, this is probably a good compromise from reality, otherwise the view would be a little too constrictive.

 

[Slashbot_427]

100% agree

Absomolutely!!

I wondered about this as well, it would be radical at least to be looking throught the barrel when the main gun fired.

 

[SgtH3nry3]

Actually, it's a bit to on.

In 3.3, I noticed that when you fire you gun, you see a puff of smoke directly centered in the telescopic sight.

That implies that the sight is not only co-axial with the gun (as it should be), but actually in the gun barrel, looking straight out.

Just a minor point, but it couldn't be too hard to move the "camera" a little to the left (or right) to correct this. This would also introduce the realworld effect of parallax error when shooting at something really close.

And it would be cool to see that great smoke/blast effect rushing sideways across camera like it really would, instead of the little puff in the center of the screen.

That is a damn good idea...

Something nobody would think off...

 

[[CoR]MiccyNarc]

Then we might as well get rid of the entire Ideas & Suggestions forum till then.

Best idea posted in the thread thus far.

 

[Mormegil]

Best idea posted in the thread thus far.

Or...you could not read this forum.




Anyways, as far as the accuracy of the optics and elevation and such, I doubt elevation would do much good on these maps, due to the size (maybe barring Kalinin). With the current sizes of most maps, most tank engagements occur at less than 500 meters, so there isn't much appreciable shell drop for the Panthers and T34-85. I can't say much for the Panzer IV or KV-1s, as I don't play them much.

So having an elevation wheel might just complicate things at the expense of realism with no gain in gameplay, as it wouldn't really be needed.

Edit: But if the optics magnification were corrected (5x stronger), then shell drop would be much more noticeable. The elevation wheel might come in handy for that. Note having such a small PoV with a 5x stronger magnification could be very detrimental to situational awareness for the gunner. That would make the cupola view much handier or require the implementation of the gunner's periscope (less magnification I assume).