MG's are unrealistically easy to take out: Solution.

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kapulA

Grizzled Veteran
Jan 4, 2006
2,240
405
83
30
Croatia
Well,is it MY fault you cant get a team together??
Is it MY fault people cant grasp that concept?!
No it isnt,therefor I am against inflicting those kinds of penalties,because when you find yourself against a good MG TEAM you do feel the fear factor,and if you dont,a free kill for the MG team...
 

Neuromante

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 25, 2006
228
20
0
THere is no fear factor involved where there would be in real life. People are not afraid to risk breaking cover and popping one at an MG.

To compensate for this, there needs to be a...

A f-ing considerably longer respawn time man, so people would then be afraid to die and the balance that there is in real combat would be kept. This goes for panzerfausts issues, grenade spamming, and about half of the issues I and some others see with the current system.
 

thedonster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 27, 2006
291
1
0
British Colombia
THere is no fear factor involved where there would be in real life. People are not afraid to risk breaking cover and popping one at an MG.

To compensate for this, there needs to be a severe aim penalty to decrease the likelyhood of return fire effecting an MG.quote]

Why?
There's no fear factor involved in anything in RO, IT'S A GAME. Should we now make infantry aim badly and run slow when faced with a tank because of wobbly knees? Honestly I fail to see how an MG is any more frightening than a tank or an artillery strike.
 

jedinstven-o crni Wuk

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 3, 2006
937
0
0
germany
So why the **** aint it in the game? Why hasen't there been anything done to address this fundamental problem with MG's?



http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13148

i was about to post the exact same thing.

Its a good feeling to hear from the Devs (ramm) that they are thinking about the mgs and some of the issues with it!

Gives a reason to stay with this game, even when it has its flaws and bugs! ;)


so we should stop to open endless threads and complain about the stuff, and start playing already more.
 

d3v

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 5, 2006
57
0
0
THere is no fear factor involved where there would be in real life. People are not afraid to risk breaking cover and popping one at an MG.

To compensate for this, there needs to be a severe aim penalty to decrease the likelyhood of return fire effecting an MG.quote]

Why?
There's no fear factor involved in anything in RO, IT'S A GAME. Should we now make infantry aim badly and run slow when faced with a tank because of wobbly knees? Honestly I fail to see how an MG is any more frightening than a tank or an artillery strike.

by your logic, we should catch the flu from being in the cold and then have wobbly aim from it.

Seriously though, when it comes to games like this, you strive for realism but not at the expense of gameplay and practicality so no, no wobbly knees from seeing tanks but hell yes wobbly aim when being fired at by an MG :D
 

Sgt._Geist

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
310
0
0
First off.......... I dont know why your *****ing about why its to easy to take out an MG........ bc after all its easy bc of teamwork..... all you need is 2 or 3 bolts... one guy draws fire. one guy picks off the MG........ its done all the time........ all the time..........

And I don't know about you....... but if an MG is pinning me down..... I dont freakin move..... I call for help over VOIP for someone to draw his fire.. then pick him off......... ITS ALL ABOUT TEAMWORK!
 

d3v

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 5, 2006
57
0
0
yes i know but unfortunately 90% of the people you encounter have no mic and no grasp on teamwork/coordination and no idea about the simple concept of pin and flank.

Just cos your proably playing with a nice cosy group of tactical-savvy players with mic's dosen't mean the rest of us are.

P.S I do have a mic.
 

jedinstven-o crni Wuk

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 3, 2006
937
0
0
germany
First off.......... I dont know why your *****ing about why its to easy to take out an MG........ bc after all its easy bc of teamwork..... all you need is 2 or 3 bolts... one guy draws fire. one guy picks off the MG........ its done all the time........ all the time..........

And I don't know about you....... but if an MG is pinning me down..... I dont freakin move..... I call for help over VOIP for someone to draw his fire.. then pick him off......... ITS ALL ABOUT TEAMWORK!

stop to troll around please. Its a mutual conversation between adults here.

thank you.
 

Soup

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 23, 2006
117
0
0
Adding artificial penalties on people under fire isn't the solution. While I completely agree that the MGer should get features such as fluid stance, undeployed reloading, deployed-to-hipped-stance undeploy, firing over the iron sights, and optional tracer rounds, I think the "suppression blur" is one of the stupidest things in RO. The fact that the devs even INCLUDED suppression blur tells you that they knew their MG's weren't working right. And don't even start with "There's no fear of death", because that's bull; even if your targets don't fear you, you could take them out anyway (if the MG's were moddelled correctly). And saying that all soldiers under MG fire get scared is utter speculation; I've been told by several people who served in the military and who had been under fire that you eventually get used to it and get on with your job. The fact that you keep dying as an MGer should tell you something about how you're operating: you're probably deploying WAY too close (I stay at least 100 m away at a minimum), firing full automatic for too long, or not cooperating with your team (any MGer who doesn't communicate with his team regarding his placement, ammo status, or spotted enemies isn't doing his job correctly).

If you're complaining that "suppressed" enemies can too easily pop up and take you out, YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB WRONG!
THE ENEMY IS NOT SUPPRESSED IF HE CAN MOVE FROM COVER AT ALL.
 

IncredibleGeek

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2006
178
5
0
Have you ever been fired at in real life? At 1200 rpm? You'd certainly experience something worse than "suppression blur." The blur at least adds some sort of realism to the experience of being shot at. Don't dismiss it so easily until you look at it honestly.
 

d3v

FNG / Fresh Meat
Apr 5, 2006
57
0
0
I have a friend who was in 2 Para for 2 years and served in Northern Ireland. He said he used to crawl across streets behind cover to avoid the bullets whizzing over his head. He said the sound of them is deafening. So it ain't just a whizz whizz, they are extremely loud. Coupled with fear and adrenaline, I think the little blur in ROOST is an understatment.

Also he was just experiancing sparodic fire. Imagine a 1200RPM MG blasting away at you? jeez.
 

Soup

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 23, 2006
117
0
0
Regarding the measly whizz whizz: http://www.redorchestragame.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13277

I would LOVE to have +200 decible muzzle blasts and sonic booms for bullets passing by my head in RO, but I love my speakers and hearing even more.

I think extra weapon sway and a not perfect sight picture should be added for all stances and all classes, not extra weapon sway only when you are under MG fire. If you have the chance to peak out from behind cover and kill an MGer, you should be able to do that, because it's the MGers fault that he couldnt keep you suppressed in the first place.

I would also like to see some form of tunnel vision included, but again, not just when under fire. Your adrenaline gets pumping even before the first bullet passes over your head in combat, and it keeps pumping. Your eyes don't magically glaze over specifically when under fire.

A less gamey approach to this issue would be to increase the puff of smoke/dirt/conrete when a bullet hits something. The hit puffs are extremely small in RO (and most other games, for some odd reason). Increased hit puffs would make it realistically hard for a rifleman to return fire, becuase he cannot see the MGer.
 
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Tak

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jan 10, 2006
1,855
96
0
East Coast, USA
I treasure my speakers (and what's left of my hearing) too much to have 'real life' sounds. If RO starts getting the sound too close to real life, we'll all be deaf or finding another game :p That said the tanks could be louder, but I digress.


The MGs need only minimal tweaking. Adding extra supression effects will do nothing because there is no fear of death. Supression in game is a representation of impossible to replicate psychological factors. Tweaking extra supression to the MG would be completely rediculous, especially if machine gun accuracy is increased.
 

thedonster

FNG / Fresh Meat
Jul 27, 2006
291
1
0
British Colombia
by your logic, we should catch the flu from being in the cold and then have wobbly aim from it.

Seriously though, when it comes to games like this, you strive for realism but not at the expense of gameplay and practicality so no, no wobbly knees from seeing tanks but hell yes wobbly aim when being fired at by an MG :D

It seems you're the one who wants us quaking with fear, not me.
Honestly, what exactly makes being fired on by an MG worse than being fired on by a tank? Soldiers were well known to experience "panzer fright"
I'm just saying that modeling fear effects into the game is stupid. Modelling them for only one weapon type and not others is even stupider.
 

Kipper

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 25, 2006
707
114
0
Connecticut, United States
Seriously, we can't go about adding artificial penalties to people in game. MGs are tough to master. Watch combat footage of MG42s or read Truman's MG guide, you'll get the idea of how to use them.

Ducking to reload or change out the barrels would be nice. Same for firing while over looking the sights and running away from the deployed MG if a grenade is thrown at you.
 

Sgt._Geist

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 23, 2006
310
0
0
stop to troll around please. Its a mutual conversation between adults here.

thank you.


WTF is that supposed to mean....... I'm not good enough for you..... I am not aloud to express my views...... Im not an adult...... Sorry about being a fast typer asswipe.......... I use online LINGO bc its fast and easy......... so dont ever, ever........ insult me like that again........
 

IncredibleGeek

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 18, 2006
178
5
0
It seems you're the one who wants us quaking with fear, not me.
Honestly, what exactly makes being fired on by an MG worse than being fired on by a tank? Soldiers were well known to experience "panzer fright"
I'm just saying that modeling fear effects into the game is stupid. Modelling them for only one weapon type and not others is even stupider.

Requests for increased suppression effects never include just one weapon type. We're discussing MGs in here, so we talk about the MGs. There's been tons of talk about increasing the effects for everything, so don't assume we think only the MGs need this effect.
 

slyder73

FNG / Fresh Meat
Aug 3, 2006
826
79
0
Vancouver
No, the MG is too easy to take out. In WW2, the MG was impossible to take out from the front exept for using a sniper. The only way for normal ground troops to take them out was to flank them or blind them with smoke.

Therfore ROOST needs to simulate this and people have made solutions like extra supression penalties and the ability to duck while deployed using the mouse-wheel.

These changes need to be implemented for sure.

I think the problem is that in real life the MG was usually deployed as a support weapon at distances much further away than the close combat you see in game. The suppression effect is in that the MG can cover an area from so far away and made a very difficult target, as well as had a screen of infantry advancing on the sides or one side.
The solution would be to make the MG more accurate so that the class can set up much further away and use that suppressing power the way it really was used.