RO2 MG42, PzIII, T70 on the way

[Panzer Jager '43]

To be honest, I haven't looked into the numbers and don't know if the AT weapons are accurate, BUT I do get the feeling that they are overpowered as far as penetration. I feel that they would be more useful to disable tanks as far as damaging treads etc. Actually destroying a tank would (I think) require accurate closeup shots to weak points and right now that feels too easy to do.

So yes, if the AT weapons are off, I would prefer a more realistic tweaking for them.

In the current game, Tanks have accurate armour plating and the PTRS has pretty realistic penetration.. it's the PzB captured PTRS that's over the top.

In game:
PTRS - 36mm
PzB - 55mm

In real life:
PTRS with BS / API round - ~43mm at 100m

So you can see PTRS is actually quite low for the game, and the PzB is ridiculously high. How this impacts the new Tanks we'll have to see.

 

[seienchin88]

yeah everything russian is propaganda and everything german is true. you dont even explain why this should be fake..
oh and even if Surkov is a fake, there are tonns of other russian snipers while germans have only 7, and russian snipers still have much higher score than 345... Russian snipers are still the best.

Dude... NOT ONE of the guys here have quoted ANYTHING that is close to german propaganda.
No one here stated something like: Winter defeated germany, Tiger was the best tank ever, one german soldier is better than 10 opponents, russians where cowards or anything like that.
Not even anyone here stated german numbers of killed enemies... You are the only one posting a highly patriotic internet site which states numbers debated NOT BY GERMANS but by scientists from around the globe.

Oh and he did explain it.

In the current game, Tanks have accurate armour plating and the PTRS has pretty realistic penetration.. it's the PzB captured PTRS that's over the top.

In game:
PTRS - 36mm
PzB - 55mm

In real life:
PTRS with BS / API round - ~43mm at 100m

So you can see PTRS is actually quite low for the game, and the PzB is ridiculously high. How this impacts the new Tanks we'll have to see.

Yeah thats true. The PzB is far too effective. Especially russian heroes using it are just completly destroying the panzer 4 with it. For balancing reasons Tripwire didnt change it but there are a lot of problems there. AT guns would probably help^^

 

[aaz777]

The doctrine of using AT rifles of the russians was to use them very very close so you might think german tanks werent as vulnerable too(Pz IV still not beeing the main tank in 1942). HOWEVER, in reality it is pretty suicidal to get so close to a tank. The enemy infantry will most likely disable you before you get in reach so ambushing is the best/only way to use an antitank rifle effectivly.

http://armor.kiev.ua/Battle/WWII/ptr/
this is soviet instruction for ATR users.
it says: "Подпускай танки врага на самые близкие расстояния (50

 

[aaz777]

Dude... NOT ONE of the guys here have quoted ANYTHING that is close to german propaganda.
No one here stated something like: Winter defeated germany, Tiger was the best tank ever, one german soldier is better than 10 opponents, russians where cowards or anything like that.
Not even anyone here stated german numbers of killed enemies... You are the only one posting a highly patriotic internet site which states numbers debated NOT BY GERMANS but by scientists from around the globe.

Oh and he did explain it.

he didnt explain anything, he just said that this is propaganda and thats all.

 

[Großadmial Thrawn]

i just said that i don't believe this website and that it is most likely nothing more than Propagamda
and for the AT Rifles, Wikipedia says for the PTRD (afaik the PTRS is its semi aoutmatic cousin)

During the initial invasion, and indeed throughout the war, most German tanks had side armor thinner than 40mm (Panzer I and Panzer II: 13-20mm, Panzer III and Panzer IV series: 30mm, Panzer V Panther (combat debut mid-1943): 40-50mm), but the PTRD teams needed to be close to very close, sometimes at point blank distances, to have a chance of penetrating the sides of these tanks. Furthermore, due to the high velocity and small size of the round, it had a very high chance of shattering or utterly failing against armor it should have penetrated, which was aggravated if the target was not at a perpendicular angle

sure Wikipedia isn't the most trustworthy source but i also don't completely trust a completely russian side

 

[seienchin88]

http://armor.kiev.ua/Battle/WWII/ptr/
this is soviet instruction for ATR users.
it says: "Подпускай танки врага на самые близкие расстояния (50

 

[The Chocolate Jesus]

I thought this discussion has come to an end now. Why are there always people either in the game itself or in the forums going completely insane over a few points of data. It's like watching an endless game of tennis or ping pong...or the Netherlands against Argentina game yesterday.

 

[Großadmial Thrawn]

It's like watching an endless game of tennis or ping pong...or the Netherlands against Argentina game yesterday.

you mean this sleep aid?
but yeah... somehow this will always happen... and out of some strange reason i will find myself in it more often than i want

 

[Nestor Makhno]

yeah everything russian is propaganda and everything german is true. you dont even explain why this should be fake..
oh and even if Surkov is a fake, there are tonns of other russian snipers while germans have only 7, and russian snipers still have much higher score than 345... Russian snipers are still the best.

Dude - I already asked you once to cut it out - this is the last time I will ask.

 

[shooter77]

That all doesnt change the fact that direct comparison of numbers of german UMGs with russian LMGs makes no sense. Why do you write it?

Yes it does, the German equivalent of the DP is the MG34/42, which can also be used in the HMG role incidentally, doesn't change anything. Good job being so dishonest that you go as far as to claim the MG34/42 cannot be compared with the DP, which is actually correct from a certain viewpoint, since it had no universal equivalent in the Soviet army because it was the first General Purpose MG in the world. But DP was LMG equivalent of the MG34 in LMG role (which it was mostly used in again). And fact of the matter is there were more MGs in LMG role on German side than LMGs on Soviet side, proportionally and absolutely.

Some heavy stationary thing from 1910 isn't really going to change that at all.

Next you're going to claim the Browning MG in LMG role cannot be compared with the MG34 either, because it doesn't have that special "General Purpose MG" label.

LOL
are you serious?
HMGs are just several (0-5 ) things on the whole map, they cant be destroyed/moved/respawned, this is 100% correct?
sorry but you are just wrong.

Yes I'm sure they were used in high numbers with great mobility and versatile roles, lol.
Tanks disappear a few minutes after you kill them, is this 100% correct? How about your soldier, can he sprint after getting shot in the leg, is this 100% correct?

Nice try with evasive questions.

oh cool.
everything what you said and all your sources are also fabricated and nazi propaganda, deal with it.

Poor attempt at trolling, your site is a sourceless joke and looks like it was made by Russian communists too.
Surkov's numbers are compeletely imaginary and literally a fabrication of Soviet propaganda.

"According to Soviet sources, Surkov had 702 confirmed kills during World War II,[1] a total which would make him the most effective sniper of the European conflict.[2] The top Soviet sniper is officially Ivan Sidorenko, who is credited with 500 confirmed kills, as postwar findings have shown that Surkov's figure very likely only served as propaganda.[3]"

Simo Hayha has the highest amount of recorded kills in history, and again you ignore the sniper claim system for Axis being much more strict and reliable than the Soviet one, and even that's an understatement.

 

[aaz777]

I won't answer shooter77 because Nestor asked me to not continue this dialog, but i want to know why he can continue while i cant.

 

[Jank]

Anyway, I'm sure we're all stoked to see that some new stuff is on the way.

 

[The Chocolate Jesus]

Anyway, I'm sure we're all stoked to see that some new stuff is on the way.

Absolutely stoked. Can't wait! :IS2:

 

[seienchin88]

Anyway, I'm sure we're all stoked to see that some new stuff is on the way.

Yeah!
Discussions are gonna multiply exponentielly after Release Anyway
I am Hopping for 1+2 New maps and the Integration in older map

 

[moetman]

i am as left wing as you can get

ura!

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I'm just going to wade past all of the historical technobabble of what is what and when what was used where.

In the gameplay sense of things.... that is in RO2.... one of the advantages the T34 was to have against the PIV was it's speed/mobility

In a similar sense, the T70 is supposed to also be a bit more zippy than the PIII, thus an advantage in balance to the PIII's bigger gun or better armour.

The problem is and always has been this:

In very few of the current RO2 maps can the T34 or the T70 actually use this speed to its advantage due to small map sizes or too many objects/debris in the way. If they can get up to speed, it's on maps that are pretty wide open and they can still be leaded and picked off with a couple of rounds from a great distance away.

Gameplay-wise, I've never noticed much of a huge difference in the T34's speed compared to the PIV's. The T34 accelerates a bit faster and I do see the speedometer move a notch higher than the PIV, but it's not really anything to write home about.

New vehicles are always a good thing in my books, but exactly how are the T70's and PIII's going to be balanced in the game?

Perhaps "Balanced" isn't the right term..... How are they going to "Function" in the game against each other?

I believe the devs designed the T34 and PIV to be that the PIV was packing more punch and had better armour than the T34 while the T34 had speed and a few other options to its disposal.

Now we are going to have the PIII and the T70 where it seems as though the favor still leans towards the Germans having more armour and firepower than the Russians.

The Russian's troop transport carries 4 passengers, while the German's half-track is scheduled to be able to carry 6 in an upcoming patch.

And with the Russian's still stuck with the DP-28 against the German's MG-34, and now the Germans will be getting the MG-42, I don't see much coming along to help with the "I want to use the German's cooler, better stuff" attitude in the game.

Adding the PPSH doesn't really help balance out the "Cool Equipment" factor.

 

[Cpt-Praxius]

I think we are forgetting that ALL WW2 TANKS were deathtraps. No climate control, exhaust regularly filled the crew area, and they were consistently getting stuck everywhere. That was to be expected, seeing as how Tank Warfare was relatively new.

Are you mistaking WWI with WWII?

A lot of what you described above seems to suit what soldiers experienced in WWI tanks..... those were relatively new.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_World_War_I

"The Mark Is were capable of performing on the real battlefield of World War I, one of the most difficult battlefield terrains ever. They did have reliability problems, but when they were working they could cross trenches or craters of 9 feet (2.7 m) and drive right through barbed wire. It was still common for them to get stuck, especially in larger bomb craters, but overall the rhomboid shape allowed for extreme terrain mobility.

Most World War I tanks could travel only at about a walking pace at best. Their steel armour could stop small arms fire and fragments from high-explosive artillery shells. However they were vulnerable to a direct hit from artillery and mortar shells. The environment inside was extremely unpleasant; as ventilation was inadequate the atmosphere was heavy with poisonous carbon monoxide from the engine and firing the weapons, fuel and oil vapours from the engine and cordite fumes from the weapons. Temperatures inside could reach 50

 

[chuy]

quote too long

Yea, the germans had cooler stuff. That is why everybody seems to want to go german instead of soviet. The thing the soviets had were sheer numbers- not necesarily weaponry. Sheer numbers is something that is really hard to replicate. I still want to see some cool gadgets the soviets had like molotovs and PTRD's to be added to the game though.

 

[mrsirr]

Sheer numbers is something that is really hard to replicate.

Especially if people get to choose which side they're on :/

 

[Nestor Makhno]

Wow - way to troll the soviet fans, Chuy -this thread had just about started to calm down and get back on track and you drop Enemy at the Gates as a historical source document into the equation