RO2 MG42 needs a nerf

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G_Sajer

FNG / Fresh Meat
Sep 4, 2011
2,389
132
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Minnesota
:cool:

I've never found myself any more threatened by the MG42 than any other weapon. Those that continue to be thwarted by it need to discipline themselves to revisit some useful tools:

Flanks, cover, gullies, buildings, patience, and my personal favorite, CRAWLING over distance.

The folks that are wild-eyed about this weapon are those that will not refrain from standing up in it's presence. Spoil yer game? It sure will.

Now, the hip firing... If TWI chose to lose or modify that feature, I'd call it good.
 
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TehMWF

FNG / Fresh Meat
Feb 4, 2015
1
0
0
Heroes of Stalingrad needs some changes. Here's why.

Heroes of Stalingrad needs some changes. Here's why.

As was pointed out recently (http://i.imgur.com/nPGhWcJ.png) and evidenced here (http://a.pomf.se/paibfe.mp4), here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9i1gtJsma0), here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t52U3cHCFQ) and here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTSU5ZsIs3Q) (Human players go down just as easily as those bots. This is just for more evidence's sake.), things are very wrong with Heroes of Stalingrad right now. There's no autobalance or forced team assignment in place to prevent the more skilled players from endlessly stacking the Axis, and the Russians have to feel the full wrath of the MG 42 without ever having Hero access to it like they do with other German weapons. In short, the game is heavily slated towards the Axis and can only be enjoyed by players on that team. This is not acceptable. The team stacking needs to end.

I'll be honest: I'm not quite sure what else to write about team balance, but I'm very sure of what's wrong with the MG 42, so the rest of this post will focus on it.

I apologize in advance for the wall of text, but this is my long-winded attempt to make a case for why the MG 42 is not balanced and does not belong in Heroes of Stalingrad in its current state. I am doing this is because I am incredibly passionate about Red Orchestra 2. I have devoted hundreds of hours of my life to playing this game, and I strongly disagree with the direction the MG 42 takes the game in. While I don't have a group of like-minded people at my side to support my opinions right now, I would nevertheless appreciate you taking the time to read this and consider my thoughts on the matter.

The Case Against The Maschinengewehr 42

Reasons I believe it is not balanced in its current state

1. The MG 42 cannot be equipped by Russian Heroes.

Part of what balances out the powerful MKb-42 and MG 34 is that they can both be used by the Russians as well as the Germans, albeit only by Heroes and in smaller numbers. However, the MG 42 is not accessible to Russian Heroes, which makes it an incredibly one-sided weapon.

2. The MG 42 is a redundant addition to the German arsenal.

Anyone who picks the Machine Gunner class on the German team has access to the MG 34 right off the bat. The MG 34 is arguably better than the DP-28 in every way - it fires faster with a larger round and can easily be upgraded to use drum magazines with 75 rounds per magazine. This is already more ammunition per magazine than the DP-28 is ever capable of mounting (60 rounds per magazine, with no upgrades ever available). In addition, reaching level 50 with the MG 34 grants it a 250-round belt of ammunition. As if that weren't bad enough for the Russians, the Germans now have access to the MG 42, which fires even faster than the MG 34, with less recoil to boot. Speaking of which...

3. The MG 42's hipfire and mounted recoil are both too low.

First off, sidearms were made for a reason - to allow the Machine Gunner class to maintain effectiveness in CQC. However, with the availability of easily controlled machine gun hipfire, the sidearm essentially has no practical purpose and languishes in everyone's arsenal. It's entirely possible to hipfire several hundred rounds downrange as accurately as you could fire them while deployed. Sure, you could cite those YouTube videos showcasing people hipfiring the MG 42 with ease - but that's in real life, which is about winning no matter what, as opposed to Red Orchestra 2, which is about blending realism with balance to make it actually fun. The current MG 42 recoil, or lack thereof, is certainly not something balanced enough to remain in the game.

4. Any German Machine Gunner ranked at Veteran or above can equip the MG 42, regardless of how many other German Machine Gunners have it equipped.

Having four MG 42s on the battlefield at any given time is excessive. Even one MG 42 is a tremendous force multiplier that is incredibly difficult to counter, and even just two would be more than enough firepower to keep the Russian's heads down or blown off.

5. The MG 42 makes playing on the Russian team a completely unenjoyable experience.

Red Orchestra 2 is a video game. Video games are, first and foremost, intended to be enjoyable experiences. I recognize that the team who developed Red Orchestra 2 aim to blend realism with balance, but this is tipped far too much towards realism, to the point where it's nearly impossible for the Russians to win matches. It was a ridiculously powerful weapon in real life, but that doesn't mean it should be replicated to the same degree of deadliness in Red Orchestra 2.

Now, while far-fetched, you could make the argument that the PPSh-41 counters the MG 42. However, that fails to take several facts into account. The PPSh-41 is definitely a force to be reckoned with, but since it's an SMG, its effectiveness tapers off over a distance. The MG 42 has no such inhibitions, and can easily kill people from distances of over 200 meters, as well as mount more than twice as much ammunition at a time as the PPSh-41's drum magazine allows.

I've identified some of the existing problems with the MG 42 - now I will attempt to cover potential solutions to the problems I have identified.

1. Make the MG 42 available to Russian Machine Gunner Heroes.

This is a simple solution that builds upon the precedent of Heroes' equipment selection. Heroes can equip almost any German weapon - why exclude the MG 42?

2. Increase the MG 42's hipfire, if not mounted, recoil.

Being able to accurately hipfire and kill targets out to 50 meters is nothing short of absurd. I would also like to see mounted recoil increased slightly, but that's not nearly as pertinent as increasing hipfire recoil. Give sidearms a practical purpose again, beyond just being a weapon to farm kills with as a joke.

3. Limit the amount of MG 42s that can be equipped at any given time, similarly to how only a certain number of Heroes are allowed at one time.

The MG 42 is an incredibly potent weapon, and as such, its use and availability should be regulated so that not any old Veteran-ranked Machine Gunner can use it.

Quite frankly, I would like nothing more than for the MG 42 to be completely removed from the game. However, I am aware that the possibility of that happening is slim to none, and that is why I have compiled this list of possible compromises.

Thank you very much for taking the time to read this. I apologize if it's poorly formatted or more of a ramble than an argument. I hope you will at least think about what I've said here, if not implement some of my solutions.

TL;DR: Add an autobalance feature, remove the ability to choose which team you're on and allow Russian Heroes to equip the MG 42 (if not nerf it as well).
 
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Kmod

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 5, 2014
8
0
0
Jeez whats all the Complaining about the MG42, the only Problem that i have with the is the Godless Hipfire and thats it. Another Soulution about this Problem is IOM:cool:
 

Raven1986

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 24, 2014
1,067
9
0
Another MG42 thread? ADMIN! MOD!
This whole axis stacking has been througoutly discussed.
The Red Army often is an indisciplined rabble that consists of one man armies and newcomers denying orders and ignoring calls for reinforcements.
As soon as the tide of the battle has turned entirely in favor of the Wehrmacht, they start raging, insult their team and the enemy on voice and chat, if not kicked for their deeds they rage quit.

I do not want to play with these kind of immature and unsocial people. Axis have rarely those guys in their ranks. You want coordinated team attacks and defenses you join Axis. Sad but simple.
 

=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
9,794
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Newton, NJ
Mods, please merge this with the other "mg42" threads or perhaps one of the "Germans aren't playing fair" threads...

EDIT: No offense TehMWF, but there are already several very large threads about these.
 
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Spetz

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 25, 2012
246
2
0
Travelling
Thank you TehMWF for the excellent post.

I agree with 100% of what you say. Something needs to be done for the good of the game.

Another MG42 thread? ADMIN! MOD!
This whole axis stacking has been througoutly discussed.
The Red Army often is an indisciplined rabble that consists of one man armies and newcomers denying orders and ignoring calls for reinforcements.
As soon as the tide of the battle has turned entirely in favor of the Wehrmacht, they start raging, insult their team and the enemy on voice and chat, if not kicked for their deeds they rage quit.

I do not want to play with these kind of immature and unsocial people. Axis have rarely those guys in their ranks. You want coordinated team attacks and defenses you join Axis. Sad but simple.

The reason why there are so many posts about this is that it is a serious issue. Let me say that again because you seem have difficulty understanding: the reason there are so many posts about Axis imbalance/MG42 is that it is a serious issue.

Do you think there would be so many posts about something if it wasn't a problem? Do we see any posts complaining that the Kar98 or the Mosin are too good or too bad or the ppsh is too overpowered? No we don't. That's because there are no problems with these game features.

What we repeatedly see is posts about map imbalance where Axis defend, the MG42 being overpowered, rambo MGs, Axis stacking. This means there MUST be a problem with these things in RO2.

Moreover, players like you ARE the problem with the Axis stack you speak of. If experienced players like you joined Allies and contributed to team work we would not have the situation you describe.

Mods, please merge this with the other "mg42" threads or perhaps one of the "Germans aren't playing fair" threads...

EDIT: No offense TehMWF, but there are already several very large threads about these.

Another one highlights the issue. TehMWF's post is actually constructive and proposes several possible solutions. It should remain as it also further highlights the issues with the game.

The fact that TehMWF is so concerned about RO2, has decided to join the forums to post about it, further highlights its severity.

Nice job TehMWF.
 

Beskar Mando

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 13, 2014
1,574
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Baltimore, Maryland
steamcommunity.com
Sigh.... There is no team stacking, at least when I play. Just because the Germans have a MG42 doesn't mean it's unfair, quit raging over automatic firepower, it's making me sick. Use the Bolt-Action Rifle for once... Both teams have unique weapons, besides let's stop complaining about stupid things and get back to playing the game, shall we?
Also this seems to be just a massive thread on how OP and unfair the MG42 is. It is a powerful weapon, I agree, should it be nerfed? No. It's quite easy to take out if you play the game well, not to mention once every bloody riflemen and sniper hear it, they'll be after you. It makes massive amounts of noise. Does it give the below average player an advantage?
Yes it does, however if you know how to play the game, you wouldn't be complaining about this. Give the MG34 or MG42 to a very experienced Machine gunner, one who knows what they're doing, they'll rack up kills and pin down entire squads, want to know why? Because Machine Guns Are Fire Support Weapons, designed to suppress an enemy by throwing a storm of lead in his or her direction. I know people who use the DP28 to this effect, don't go complaining because someone does something like this with an MG42. By your logic we should nerf all Machine guns...
 
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Twrecks

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 28, 2011
1,241
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Ventura, California

Wow, so you cried a Volga river of text. I'd like to be proven wrong, however, appears TWI ain't doing nothing about the MG42, and prolly never will. Expect only double talk, and if we're even minutely lucky, thrown a completely unrelated bone from this dead horse.
 

=GG= Mr Moe

FNG / Fresh Meat
Mar 16, 2006
9,794
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Newton, NJ
Another one highlights the issue. TehMWF's post is actually constructive and proposes several possible solutions. It should remain as it also further highlights the issues with the game.

The fact that TehMWF is so concerned about RO2, has decided to join the forums to post about it, further highlights its severity.

Nice job TehMWF.

TehMWF is certainly welcome to the forums.

However, do we need every new or existing member to create multiple topics on the same thing? It would be best if it was merged with one of the existing threads on it.

Constructive post or not, we certainly don't need what is essentially another "The Germans aren't playing fair" thread.

And for the record (again :rolleyes:) I only agree with hipfiring any mg. However I do not agree with TehMWF's proposed solution.
 

Beskar Mando

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 13, 2014
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TehMWF is certainly welcome to the forums.

However, do we need every new or existing member to create multiple topics on the same thing? It would be best if it was merged with one of the existing threads on it.

Constructive post or not, we certainly don't need what is essentially another "The Germans aren't playing fair" thread.

And for the record (again :rolleyes:) I only agree with hipfiring any mg. However I do not agree with TehMWF's proposed solution.

I disagree to an extent, you just need to understand how to counter it. Besides there really isn't any teamstacking..
 

Raven1986

FNG / Fresh Meat
May 24, 2014
1,067
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Do you think there would be so many posts about something if it wasn't a problem? Do we see any posts complaining that the Kar98 or the Mosin are too good or too bad or the ppsh is too overpowered? No we don't. That's because there are no problems with these game features.

What we repeatedly see is posts about map imbalance where Axis defend, the MG42 being overpowered, rambo MGs, Axis stacking. This means there MUST be a problem with these things in RO2.

Moreover, players like you ARE the problem with the Axis stack you speak of. If experienced players like you joined Allies and contributed to team work we would not have the situation you describe.

Do you want me to open up whiny threads about the PPSh or the DP28 to counter this ridiculous thread assault on the forums? I won't do that.
Wanna know why? I accept the differences between the load outs each team has and I am happy about them. You accept the different loadouts by pressing "Play" on Steam.

The MG42 is no such thing as overpowered. It was a serious weapon to be dealt with back in the Great War and it should be so in the game. If you believe running cross country was possible without the MG42 you are dead wrong.
Even if you strip me of the MG34, I will still cut Allies down en masse with the Karabiner 98k.

If you had read many of my previous postings and also had payed close attention to the posting you quoted you would have noticed that I do join allies. Yet you tell me that if I was there the whole situation would change. Have you jumped lines or something? I said they are denying or indifferent to orders and call-outs.


Ask them to wait for the smoke, "why wait for it, just run into Axis small arms fire."
Ask them to wait for the arty to stop, "what arty, let's just lose some 20+ tickets."
"If we lose, it's never my fault, it's the other players on my team that wasted tickets and time"
I have a limited time to play. I grow tired of baby sitting, particularly babies who tell me to stfu whilst they keep getting cut down.

It does not ring a bell with these folks if you tell them to do this or that. They keep on going with their stupid spray and pray. Losing is the well-deserved price they pay for this.
Blaming the MG42 for their immature and insubordinate way of playing the game is highly questionable.
Opening new threads like every two days after people provided clear facts that the weapon is not responsible for it is even more questionable.

As you surely are an experienced player you can babysit if you want. Keep them hurling insults at you and don't you dare switch teams. :)
 

Twrecks

FNG / Fresh Meat
Dec 28, 2011
1,241
10
0
Ventura, California
No point in beating this horse again because of TehMWF's first wonder post. There's no indication he's read other threads regarding this subject, or comprehends the futility of making suggestions in the forum. I'm more than willing to argue for the sake of arguement, however no devs have replied to any of the other MG42 dietribes, I challenge a statement to be made here and now.

ATM, I'm with Raven. Deal with it. It's in game, the way it is, and in most likelyhood will stay that way. A hero Allied ATer with a PzB can snuff a P4 with 1 shot, while a T34 can't? Just the way it is. Grab your tiny potatoes and Hurrah charge, and let the Axis mow you down with the MG42 if that's what you want to do.

I commend TehMWF for making a well organized first post ever, regardless respectfully disagree with almost everything except "The MG 42 is an incredibly potent weapon".
 
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Cwivey

Grizzled Veteran
Sep 14, 2011
2,964
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In the hills! (of England)
A hero Allied ATer with a PzB can snuff a P4 with 1 shot, while a T34 can't? Just the way it is.

They can't. They don't spawn with them and the PZB is much less effective in the one shot spots on the PIV than the PTRS; the AT's themselves are fairly crap against the medium tanks anyways.
 

aaz777

Active member
Jun 30, 2013
1,840
3
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Russia, Pushkin
there is 1 important thing you should understand.
People are not saying that its wrong that that germans get mg42.
People are saying that germans get mg42 with wrong characteristics and possibilities.

If mg42 ( and mg34 actually ) had correct characteristics: more recoil (for mg42) and especially more recoil for hipfire, slow movement when ready to hipfire and, if possible, uncomfortable hipfire ( something like mouse acceleration or something, like in arma while walking ), then it would not be so disbalancing and unrealistic as it is now.

Another thing is belt. With belt character must move even slower ( especially with 250rnd ) and machinegun must have random jamms all the time while hipfiring with belt ( again, especially 250rnd ). This would make people use 50rnd boxes if they want to "rambo".
 

Beskar Mando

Grizzled Veteran
Dec 13, 2014
1,574
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Baltimore, Maryland
steamcommunity.com
there is 1 important thing you should understand.
People are not saying that its wrong that that germans get mg42.
People are saying that germans get mg42 with wrong characteristics and possibilities.

If mg42 ( and mg34 actually ) had correct characteristics: more recoil (for mg42) and especially more recoil for hipfire, slow movement when ready to hipfire and, if possible, uncomfortable hipfire ( something like mouse acceleration or something, like in arma while walking ), then it would not be so disbalancing and unrealistic as it is now.

Another thing is belt. With belt character must move even slower ( especially with 250rnd ) and machinegun must have random jamms all the time while hipfiring with belt ( again, especially 250rnd ). This would make people use 50rnd boxes if they want to "rambo".

It wouldn't be hard to modify it to increase the recoil and weight, the problem would be getting it white listed....maybe incorporate it into IOM with all MGs?