MG34 and 42 from the hip and even from the shoulder?

[MD.GHOST]

I know i was requested several times
but most said impossible thats just bull****.

YouTube - MACHINE GUNS!!!!!!!!!

check out the video from 3.30 to the end and you will see what i mean ok that guys has some muscles on his arm but why should the mg gunner back in time be a weakly wimp ?.? and not be able to controll his gun ?

i mean if somebody other pics up the gun and is not aware how it function.
than i would than i think its ok to not let him be able to shoot from the hip or if total inaccurate.

ok he could only shot a few meter but atleast something to defend yourself in close combat. not to get me wrong i don't want to be able to shoot from the shoulder but at least from the hip thx. with both.34 and 42.

what is also not get is why the its harder to aim and make precise shoots from the hip in ostfront with an mg34 than an DP-27.

 

[LemoN]

No one ever said that it isn't possible.

 

[Floyd]

what is also not get is why the its harder to aim and make precise shoots from the hip in ostfront with an mg34 than an DP-27.

Well for starters:
1) The MG-42 has a larger caliber of bullet 7.92x57 vx 7.62x54
2) The MG-42 has 2x the rate of fire. 1200 rounds per minute vs 500/600 rounds per minute.

To explain the physics of those two things, imagine holding on to a garden hose (DP-27) with a full stream of water vs a fire hose (MG-42).

With a sling and fully prepared to shoot from the hip, perhaps. Otherwise, if he were in such close proximity of the enemy, I would imagine the operator would be too busy carrying his heavy *** weapon as fast as he could to the nearest spot of cover.

And something no one seems to worry about in video games is friendly fire. Bullets don't just magically loose their effectiveness when you miss your target. They travel long distances, through walls and go places you didn't intend. I don't know how much you know about firearms and the term minute of angle (MOA), but 1/60 of 1 degree is an MOA. 1 MOA ~ 1in at 100 yds (metric 1MOA at 100m ~ 2.9cm). 1/60 of 1 degree Think about it next time you spray and pray. Though somewhat exagerated, imo, the overkill on hand held recoil in RO mimicks the real life consequences (or effective killing result) pretty well.

Now I'll watch the video....

 

[Oldih]

Well for starters:
1) The MG-42 has a larger caliber of bullet 7.92x57 vx 7.62x54
2) The MG-42 has 2x the rate of fire. 1200 rounds per minute vs 500/600 rounds per minute.

For starters you can't 'hipshoot' with MG42 in RO. It's only for MG34 and DP. But the same example still would mostly apply.

With a sling and fully prepared to shoot from the hip, perhaps. Otherwise, if he were in such close proximity of the enemy, I would imagine the operator would be too busy carrying his heavy *** weapon as fast as he could to the nearest spot of cover.

For germans it was actually in the standard machinegunner training to learn (or atleast know) a method which is commonly referred as Sturmfeuer, which basically means you position yourself in a triangle and shift your weight mostly on the leg in front and fire short bursts. In case of emergencies or lack of any other automatic weapons, it was not entirely out of question for some houses to be partitially 'stormed' with MGs or to be used as temporary way to delay the enemy so the squad can reposition themselves.

Obviously it's not always the most practical way of doing things and it does require certain preparations - and it's physically quite demanding for longer than just a brief moment, but it certainly was taught for atleast german MG'ers and occasionally used in such fashion aswell.

 

[Hanson]

American soldiers are trained to fire weapons like the M249 SAW and M240B from the hip or from the shoulder even today for emergency situations and such.

 

[Seth_Soldier]

just like the .30 us gunners during ww2.
Russian soldier are trained to fire kord 12.7 mm hmg from hip too.

But we all know that video games doesn't deal with all the factors human have to suffer ( plus lonewolf aren't tolerated in the army)

 

[MD.GHOST]

Well for starters:
1) The MG-42 has a larger caliber of bullet 7.92x57 vx 7.62x54
2) The MG-42 has 2x the rate of fire. 1200 rounds per minute vs 500/600 rounds per minute.

To explain the physics of those two things, imagine holding on to a garden hose (DP-27) with a full stream of water vs a fire hose (MG-42).

With a sling and fully prepared to shoot from the hip, perhaps. Otherwise, if he were in such close proximity of the enemy, I would imagine the operator would be too busy carrying his heavy *** weapon as fast as he could to the nearest spot of cover.

And something no one seems to worry about in video games is friendly fire. Bullets don't just magically loose their effectiveness when you miss your target. They travel long distances, through walls and go places you didn't intend. I don't know how much you know about firearms and the term minute of angle (MOA), but 1/60 of 1 degree is an MOA. 1 MOA ~ 1in at 100 yds (metric 1MOA at 100m ~ 2.9cm). 1/60 of 1 degree Think about it next time you spray and pray. Though somewhat exagerated, imo, the overkill on hand held recoil in RO mimicks the real life consequences (or effective killing result) pretty well.

Now I'll watch the video....

asked about the mg34 not mg 42 pls read carefully thx.

 

[reyalpOR]

I have yet to see WW2 footage of machine gunners shouldering the MG-34 or 42.

Shouldering seems to be very impractical in both close and long range engagements. Unwieldy at close range and highly unlikely to be effective at long range without some better stabilization . It just wasn't designed to be shouldered.

Oh yeah, and Audie Murphy...

YouTube - To hell and back

Edit: When in doubt, ask yourself, "What Would Audie Murphy Do?"

 

[Floyd]

asked about the mg34 not mg 42 pls read carefully thx.

Ok...my bad. I missed the mg34 specific part... so I'll rephrase:

1) The mg34 has a larger caliber of bullet 7.92x57 vs 7.62x54
2) The mg34 has an approx 1.6x the rate of fire. 800-900 rounds per minute vs 500/600 rounds per minute.

To explain the physics of those two things, imagine holding on to a garden hose (DP-27) with a full stream of water vs a fire hose (mg34).

Better?

I thought I was offering an explaination as to why a weapon firing a larger caliber weapon with a higher rate of fire can be harder to control.


I never said they weren't trained to do so or that it didn't happen. I was just offering perhaps another of the many reasons why it is atypical to fire a fully automatic weapon unsupported.

 

[LemoN]

Well, the calibre wouldn't make much difference in that case.
7.92x57IS has nearly exactly the same recoil as a 7.62x54R.

Regarding the firing speed... I guess that the MG42 actually would be easier to control in very short bursts than a DP-27. Due to the fact that in the time you shoot 10 rounds with the MG42 you rarely had the chance to be thrown off balance by the recoil, while with the DP you have a rocking horse in your hands.

Oh and MG's don't have such an insane recoil as one might think, as a lot of that force is needed for the action itself and due to the weight it has. It has a recoil increaser for a reason.

I think a good comparison would be a M3 vs. a Thompson.
The thompson is both heavier and has a higher rate of fire and is thus way easier to control, the M3 has a low rate of fire and is lighter and feels shakey, even thought it hasn't got that much of a "push" to it.

In short: short "accurate" bursts = Mg42
more sustained and controllable fire = DP-27

 

[MD.GHOST]

Well, the calibre wouldn't make much difference in that case.
7.92x57IS has nearly exactly the same recoil as a 7.62x54R.

Regarding the firing speed... I guess that the MG42 actually would be easier to control in very short bursts than a DP-27. Due to the fact that in the time you shoot 10 rounds with the MG42 you rarely had the chance to be thrown off balance by the recoil, while with the DP you have a rocking horse in your hands.

Oh and MG's don't have such an insane recoil as one might think, as a lot of that force is needed for the action itself and due to the weight it has. It has a recoil increaser for a reason.

I think a good comparison would be a M3 vs. a Thompson.
The thompson is both heavier and has a higher rate of fire and is thus way easier to control, the M3 has a low rate of fire and is lighter and feels shakey, even thought it hasn't got that much of a "push" to it.

In short: short "accurate" bursts = Mg42
more sustained and controllable fire = DP-27

thx for the nice answer seams realistic and logical to me

 

[Floyd]

edit....
nevermind...
The die is cast and everyone will believe what they want. No point in my belaboring the issue.

 

[Mormegil]

If it can be done in real life, I wouldn't be against having it in the game, as long as it's an accurate representation of insane recoil and inaccurate fire.

I would personally put this on the low end of the priority list, as far as dev time goes.

That said, I don't think MG42 was fielded in any substantial numbers in Stalingrad.

 

[reyalpOR]

If it can be done in real life, I wouldn't be against having it in the game...

That isn't necessarily the problem, the problem is that soldiers were not trained to shoulder this type of weapon. Military Doctrine dictates this.

Out of all the WW2 footage I've seen so far, I have yet to see any soldier shoulder an MG-42, MG-34, or even a 30.cal.

I say no go on shouldering, but MG-34/42 hip-shooting is "A-Okay"

 

[Reise]

All I can say is I'd rather not have my bare hands on the heat shielding of a 34 while it was firing.

Smart if you have something to protect your mitts, but still.

 

[Mormegil]

That isn't necessarily the problem, the problem is that soldiers were not trained to shoulder this type of weapon. Military Doctrine dictates this.

Out of all the WW2 footage I've seen so far, I have yet to see any soldier shoulder an MG-42, MG-34, or even a 30.cal.

I say no go on shouldering, but MG-34/42 hip-shooting is "A-Okay"

Agreed. I was thinking about hipping the 42, not shouldering.