MG recoil - TW Please read
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Wrong in exactly what? Please elaborate that a bit, will you?
That was the argument where you argued that people cannot use certain magazine type which they are using, wasn't it? People do something which you say is impossible, I point it out to you and suddenly I am wrong in what?
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Again ? No, I don't think so Jippo. It was simple response to your own insults Jippo, the ones you've been throwing around you like candy almost since the thread started.
As for me being inexperienced at operating a MG, a more accurate description would be that I have had no complete formal military education on a MG beyond basic operation.
I would argue however that I have a reasonable amount of experience operating MGs seeing as I've fired multiple so far, including the MG34. As for my shooting skills with one, they are from what I've been told very acceptable, which I'd tend to agree with seeing as I can definitely replicate and even improve upon the performance shown by the guys in the practical accuracy video. But I know there are people out there better at it than me, people who can keep 10 shot bursts within a torso sized target at 100 m.
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That MGs are realistically depicted in RO2, displaying loads of muzzle climb.
Jippofin said:
That is incorrect. You for still unknown reasons claimed that German machine gunners easily could've just picked up the large amounts of D-T 15 drums lying around (still wondering where you got that from) and use them for their MG34's during the war.
I then politely corrected this by informing you that the D-T 15 drum would not work with the MG34 for two reasons: 1) being the locking latch preventing it from fitting on the Trommelhalter 34 in the first place and 2) being that even if you somehow managed to make it fit then the drum wouldn't function properly with the MG34 because the magazine spring pressure was too tight and couldn't be fine adjusted for use with the Trommelhalter 34.
But instead of just accepting this you hardheadedly continued to claim that it would work, posting videos of people using post-war modified D-T 15 drums on their MG34's as an attempt to prove this. Problem is that such modified drums were unavailable during the war, and as such the D-T 15 simply wouldn't work with the MG34.
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That would be indeed fine argument, provided I said that. Which I never said...
To be more realistic they would run off in different directions depending on how and where you deploy. Compared to that constant direction is a nice simplification of the matter.
This is the big problem with you.
Nope, never said that either.
First can be cured with file or leaving the part out entirely. Second part, the adjustment can be done with a screw driver. I was wrong to say it can be adjusted 1/4 turns, in fact it can be adjusted 1/8 turns. So yes, I was wrong.
So you think the German war industry couldn't manage to do what John Doe can with a file and a screw driver. They had fighter jets and rockets, and you say they couldn't manage a five minute mod on mag?
Enough of this off topic, right?
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That in my books is still inexperienced. I mean good for you and all, but not much to write home about.
I've shot a couple of black powder guns, but I still wouldn't call me an expert on muskets based on that.
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You claimed it was the most realistic depiction of MGs in a game you'd ever played. But ofcourse it could be that you just never played RO:Ost or DH then..
Your words:
"Rare or not, there were still abundance of MG15 drums about that could be used with MG34."
Yet the truth is they couldn't.
Yeah that's smart, let's take off the locking latch
Really?
[PT34 vs D-T 15]
Besides 1/8th of a turn wouldn't even cut it, finer tuning was necessary, esp. since each gun differed; which is also why the post war modified D-T 15's often feature new springs if desired for use with the MG34
Oh so now it was the industry which was going to do it ? I see.....
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I always try to play as mg role ingame.
In my xperience,he mg is reliable and u can keep it under control always. the semiauto mode is very usefull for long range shoot or difficult shoots. I dont have any experience in RL with Mgs but, i can say u, in my humble opinion, that MG34 in RO2 is a devastating weapon, capable to kill statics or running toons with amazing succes at all ranges (my best range is 280m in auto, with 3-4 bullets burts). The secret is keep the beast under control, timing with ur mouse and firing shorts and controled burts. U can training ur fire discipline speaking the word "die" in ur burts. U must fire very short burts and anticipate ur ironsight if the toon is in movement
For me, the Mg fails when i fail to keep myself calmed . For example, when i need to fire a lot of people at same time. When i get nervous choosing and tracking too much targets my accuraccy fails.
http://i.imgur.com/Syeyl.jpg
i im love with the MG (mg-34 always!, of course, playing axis and soviets)
xcuse me for my english please
In my xperience,he mg is reliable and u can keep it under control always. the semiauto mode is very usefull for long range shoot or difficult shoots. I dont have any experience in RL with Mgs but, i can say u, in my humble opinion, that MG34 in RO2 is a devastating weapon, capable to kill statics or running toons with amazing succes at all ranges (my best range is 280m in auto, with 3-4 bullets burts). The secret is keep the beast under control, timing with ur mouse and firing shorts and controled burts. U can training ur fire discipline speaking the word "die" in ur burts. U must fire very short burts and anticipate ur ironsight if the toon is in movement
For me, the Mg fails when i fail to keep myself calmed . For example, when i need to fire a lot of people at same time. When i get nervous choosing and tracking too much targets my accuraccy fails.
http://i.imgur.com/Syeyl.jpg
i im love with the MG (mg-34 always!, of course, playing axis and soviets)
xcuse me for my english please
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So you are now arguing that I have wrong personal preference? Should I also like boys instead of girls? Would that be ok for you?
There isn't anything to argue about personal preference.
What is this bull**** about the magazines then? I will not take part in this rubbish anymore than the quotes below. If you want beat the dead horse, beat it in it's own thread with somebody who fancies arguing with you. You get this one answer because your twisting of my words, which I find offensive. Do not do it anymore.
And you claim I said "You for still unknown reasons claimed that German machine gunners easily could've just picked up the large amounts of D-T 15 drums lying around"
How are these two sentences the same? German airforce mags are in airforce warehouses, not scattered randomly around Soviet countryside.
Yeah that's smart, let's take off the locking latch
It only facilitates easier removal of the magazine, it doesn't lock the mag in place.
Prove it then. I am of the opinion it is well enough because people are using these mags succesfully with MG34's all the time. Since you have friends who actually know machineguns, in this stage it would be wise to ask about the MG34 magazines and the adjustment interval of their spring. I'm just afraid it will turn out to much worse thant with the original DT mag.
I'm signing off this thread from here on. If you do not agree with me, then we do need to agree to disagree. Field is yours.
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Well, it has become rather ridiculous after the arguing of Unus Offa and Jippofi. If both parts actually gave definitive facts, rather than one of them continually denying what the other said and thereafter going to personal attacks to defend himself, It could been a better thread.......
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Jippo is to blame for the steep decline in objectivity and class, and his utterly amazing ability to continuously dodge the question of how the excessive MG muzzle CLIMB in RO2 is realistic.
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I wish there would be a simulated jerk forward and backward. I'd imagine firing an MG continuously would cause your eyesight to jerk because of the recoil. The muzzle climb is a bit much I think. While I'm here, I feel that the recoil is worse when deployed than while hip shooting.
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What does personal preference have to do with how a machine gun behaves when fired Jippo ?
In real life I have yet to see a MG deployed in the prone position exhibit muzzle climb that you have to keep combating whilst firing, yet this happens in RO:HOS. And that is what this discussion is or should I say was about.
I have proven it time and again to you Jippo, but you refuse to acknowledge it.
And people aren't using original D-T 15 mags successfully with MG34's all the time. You're repeating something that simply isn't true.
The truth is that people today sometimes use post war modified D-T 15 mags for their MG34's, or repros, and these lack the locking latch of the originals as-well as feature different springs and often other small modifications that seperate them from the original D-T 15. And this quite simply because the original D-T 15 just won't work with the MG34, and that for two simple reasons that have been explained countless times already.
Now your memory is failing you because I did ask one of them and you immediately dismissed his reply.
Here it is again:
"No you're right, the original DT15 drums will not function reliably with the MG34, the spring tension is simply too tight and you can't adjust it like on the PT34. And yes, you would have to remove the locking latch from the DT15 first to even get it to fit on the MG34."
On top of this you also dismissed what was written on Bergflak's website: http://www.bergflak.com/PT34.htm
"Secondly, the spring pressure on the D-T 15 magazines proved too tight for the MG34 bolt spring, so reliable functioning was not achieved. This was remedied by substituting the clockwork spring mechanism with a new and much simplified coiled spring. It is possible to shoot a MG34 with a D-T 15 if the locking latch is removed and the magazine is only half-full."
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Quit attacking each other guys, instead go the standard argument format with like, proof, examples and counter-examples, etc. rather then accusing each other.
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Raneman, I am not attacking, I am just responding.
But it is true that this "debate" ran its' course a long time ago. And as such I will leave it be for now just as-well.
But it is true that this "debate" ran its' course a long time ago. And as such I will leave it be for now just as-well.
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Small bump on this thread.
WW2 German MG34 & MG42 Machine Gun - - YouTube
World War 2 MG34 and MG42 Footage - YouTube
I've seen many videos like these and never noticed behavior of MG soldiers that is present in RO2:
- recoil of deployed LMG doesn't kick upwards, but backwards only and it is fully manageable.
- when firing LMG's doesn't jump randomly upwards, it's heavy and deployed on bipod which makes a steady firing platform
- soldiers don't use it in rambo mode, in RO2 it's more common than original LMG purpose - as stationary support weapon to provide suppressive fire
- suppressive fire is effective and keeps enemy heads down or reduce their firepower/accuracy
WW2 German MG34 & MG42 Machine Gun - - YouTube
World War 2 MG34 and MG42 Footage - YouTube
I've seen many videos like these and never noticed behavior of MG soldiers that is present in RO2:
- recoil of deployed LMG doesn't kick upwards, but backwards only and it is fully manageable.
- when firing LMG's doesn't jump randomly upwards, it's heavy and deployed on bipod which makes a steady firing platform
- soldiers don't use it in rambo mode, in RO2 it's more common than original LMG purpose - as stationary support weapon to provide suppressive fire
- suppressive fire is effective and keeps enemy heads down or reduce their firepower/accuracy
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Your right their Apos, but I think they did use it from the hip. But not in the way we see it in Ro2, a bracing system (Suggested elsewhere) would be good to allow fire (Even putting it on a Kommeraden's shoulder would be nice)
And the problem with MG's dosent fully rest in the Recoil area, but in the effects of the MG's where suppression comes in, im not gonna breach into a long discussion but it lacks here, forcing players to use it in Rambo Mode (Along with the Dodgy cover system)
And the problem with MG's dosent fully rest in the Recoil area, but in the effects of the MG's where suppression comes in, im not gonna breach into a long discussion but it lacks here, forcing players to use it in Rambo Mode (Along with the Dodgy cover system)
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