• Please make sure you are familiar with the forum rules. You can find them here: https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/forum-rules.2334636/

MG recoil - TW Please read

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
#101
Unus Offa said:
Achieving successive groupings this tight ingame at 100 meters with the MG34 is impossible.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't dig the hole you are in any deeper if I were you.

If we believe your markings (I can't be bothered to double-check), those groups you have drawn are anything from 2 to about 25 MOA. The group drawn in my picture is, without knowing the dimensions of the arc, definately smaller than 20MOA (I'd estimate it as 15) so it is definately possible to do that. You have no argument.

Now to the real reason I posted to this thread once more: a local gun magazine mail just brought me. They happen to have a M60 test fired for accuracy, and I thought people would be interested of their results. They fired 50 round belt in a single burst to a paper sized 1,2 x 1,8 meters (size of two men standing side by side). They got 43 rounds on the paper (spread pretty evenly around the paper) resulting in a hit percentage of 84%.
Of course it is a not very meaningful test with a single belt and single shooter, but it is just as applicable as the youtube video we have discussed for quite some time now. If you want to try that in game, I am sure you can manage it quite easily.


Ps. since there has been big big confusion in this thread because of incorrect use of terms, namely of what is accuracy, I suggest we use the term in it's correct way from now on. Accuracy means ability to hit a given target well. Precision is the ability to hit a same spot repeatedly, i.e. ability to get the bullets close to each other or group well.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#102
Unus Offa said:
The problem we have ingame atm is not
Achieving successive groupings this tight ingame at 100 meters with the MG34 is impossible.
Click to expand...

Bren was an exceptionally accurate MG. I've read that it was deemed too accurate for an LMG.

IMO, there should be a variation in recoil. Less recoil when prone, especially with MG-34 where the barrel is in-line with shoulder stock, less so with DP.
Most recoil while hip-firing from movement.. less so while standing, and a moderate amount from crouched.

Accuracy means ability to hit a given target well.
Click to expand...
Well? That's a hole in the ground..
****ty definition. Why don't stick with minutes of angles?

Also, it'd really help MG's if shooting were possible for crouched and standing positions without having the gun supported by bipod.

... make the MG sway a lot after a few seconds.. Numerous videos demonstrate that it is possible.

PKM 1 - YouTube
 
Upvote 0
#103
Guys... the "I've shot an M249 S.A.W. in the army and you can fire it from the hip", arguments aren't really valid. Guns have changed, and I've heard this far too often. Also to the guy who said that 'there's no way you could sustain accurate fire at 500m with the MG in real life.'
Yeah, duh, and nobody's popping anyone off from 500m in RO2 either. My longest RIFLE shot is 187m.
 
Upvote 0
#104
Very true - different LMGs handle very differently. I've shot the Bren (in 7.62mm NATO) and the F89 (Australian version of the Minimi) and they were totally different to handle. The Bren was very easy to aim and group with; the Minimi (even with a 1.5x optical sight) was a complete pain in the backside and I just couldn't do anything useful with it.

It's different between firers too - lots of guys found the Minimi really easy to shoot with - just not me.
 
Upvote 0
#105
Just to clarify, the problem is not with people being able to hipshoot LMGs; it is in fact very possible (as seen by many accounts from forum members and Youtube vids) and have use in certain situations both IRL and in game. The problem is being able to wield that LMG sprint and turn with a speed that should not be possible considering the weapon's weight. And as a side note, look all the vids of people hipfiring MGs on Youtube, note that its all done at a STATIC STANDING stance, not running around and twirling as we see in game.
 
Upvote 0
#106
CocaineInMyBrain said:
Just to clarify, the problem is not with people being able to hipshoot LMGs; it is in fact very possible (as seen by many accounts from forum members and Youtube vids) and have use in certain situations both IRL and in game. The problem is being able to wield that LMG sprint and turn with a speed that should not be possible considering the weapon's weight. And as a side note, look all the vids of people hipfiring MGs on Youtube, note that its all done at a STATIC STANDING stance, not running around and twirling as we see in game.
Click to expand...

Do they train to move and shoot with it? Even if innacurate they could make firing slow you too a shuffle? Enough you can creep your way up as a support role, or react to a sudden enemy, but not allowing you to run around and use the mg like a giant sky. Just having someone dead stop when they press the trigger would play poorly in my mind, and making them come to a stop before firing means they'll never survive being assaulted while moving with the MG out.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#107
Tak said:
Do they train to move and shoot with it? Even if innacurate they could make firing slow you too a shuffle? Enough you can creep your way up as a support role, or react to a sudden enemy, but not allowing you to run around and use the mg like a giant sky. Just having someone dead stop when they press the trigger would play poorly in my mind, and making them come to a stop before firing means they'll never survive being assaulted while moving with the MG out.
Click to expand...


That's exactly what I mean.

LMGs should be able to hipfire, and be able move to some degree while doing it. but should not move nearly as fast or be as agile as an assault trooper carrying a ppsh or an mp40
 
Upvote 0
#108
Tak said:
Do they train to move and shoot with it? Even if innacurate they could make firing slow you too a shuffle? Enough you can creep your way up as a support role, or react to a sudden enemy, but not allowing you to run around and use the mg like a giant sky. Just having someone dead stop when they press the trigger would play poorly in my mind, and making them come to a stop before firing means they'll never survive being assaulted while moving with the MG out.
Click to expand...

I always use the walk button when hipfiring the LMG, gives more recoil control.

Also, you guys arguing about the LMG recoil. You do realize it changes immensly as you level up right? So you always have to factor in level when talking about gun behaviour (as much as I hate it)
 
Upvote 0
#110
Being away for a fews days certainly produces some posts on this forum I must say.

Jippofin said:
I wouldn't dig the hole you are in any deeper if I were you.
Click to expand...

I couldn't possibly outpace your work with your own hole atm Jippo.

If we believe your markings (I can't be bothered to double-check), those groups you have drawn are anything from 2 to about 25 MOA. The group drawn in my picture is, without knowing the dimensions of the arc, definately smaller than 20MOA (I'd estimate it as 15) so it is definately possible to do that. You have no argument.
Click to expand...

Produce successive groupings that tight ingame then Jippo, cause you haven't so far, no matter how many times you keep repeating that you have.

And you can believe those markings, they are 100% accurate, checked and double checked. Furthermore only one group reached 25 MOA, the rest were between 2.5 to 5 MOA.

Anyway we're still stalking past the point, which is that prolonged bursts lasting anywhere from 1 to 3 seconds produce way to much muzzle climb ingame. It simply does not happen in real life.

Also if you bothered to look at the practical accuracy video you will see that atleast half of the bursts string downwards, not upwards. In short, where's all that muzzle climb we're seeing in RO2 ? Again NOWHERE!
 
Upvote 0
#111
Spacehogking said:
Guys... the "I've shot an M249 S.A.W. in the army and you can fire it from the hip", arguments aren't really valid. Guns have changed, and I've heard this far too often. Also to the guy who said that 'there's no way you could sustain accurate fire at 500m with the MG in real life.'
Yeah, duh, and nobody's popping anyone off from 500m in RO2 either. My longest RIFLE shot is 187m.
Click to expand...

That's cause the saw spits .224 diameter rounds @ 60grains of weight. that's practically a friggin .223 which is a beefier version of a friggin 22lr. Mg34 spits rounds .350diameter @ 200grains a markedly heavier round then the saw.
 
Upvote 0
#112
Tak said:
Do they train to move and shoot with it? Even if innacurate they could make firing slow you too a shuffle? Enough you can creep your way up as a support role, or react to a sudden enemy, but not allowing you to run around and use the mg like a giant sky. Just having someone dead stop when they press the trigger would play poorly in my mind, and making them come to a stop before firing means they'll never survive being assaulted while moving with the MG out.
Click to expand...

if you aren't planted like a tree while hipfiring the mg34 or mg42 you are going to "eat it" trying to walk or run
 
Upvote 0
#113
Unus Offa said:
Being away for a fews days certainly produces some posts on this forum I must say.



I couldn't possibly outpace your work with your own hole atm Jippo.



Produce successive groupings that tight ingame then Jippo, cause you haven't so far, no matter how many times you keep repeating that you have.

And you can believe those markings, they are 100% accurate, checked and double checked. Furthermore only one group reached 25 MOA, the rest were between 2.5 to 5 MOA.

Anyway we're still stalking past the point, which is that prolonged bursts lasting anywhere from 1 to 3 seconds produce way to much muzzle climb ingame. It simply does not happen in real life.

Also if you bothered to look at the practical accuracy video you will see that atleast half of the bursts string downwards, not upwards. In short, where's all that muzzle climb we're seeing in RO2 ? Again NOWHERE!
Click to expand...

Accuracy of MG's are fine atm. Recoil of MG's is fine. Being able to run around like rocket man and hipfire MG is not fine. accuracy of mg while hipfiring is too good.

I am very accurate with mg32 and dp @ 200yards. I find no fault with their accuracy or recoil. Both guns perform well with recoil. Even sustained bursts of 2-3 seconds are well mannered and controllable with mouse compensation. It is not the machine that is at fault here, it's your own personal ability. Practice more, complain less. Blame the man before the machine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unus Offa Unus Nex, Roland777 and Jippofin
Upvote 0
#115
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: RJ_MacReady
Upvote 0
#116
That "Guided MG" video knocked me off my feet. Absolutely marvellous. I'd like to see it in RO2. Unfortunatelly it's something that won't happen here. Not when everybody have super zoom. And I couldn't care less what people say about peripheral vision and view being zoomed out by default.
Thanks for sharing.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
#117
RJ_MacReady said:
That "Guided MG" video knocked me off my feet. Absolutely marvellous. I'd like to see it in RO2. Unfortunatelly it's something that won't happen here. Not when everybody have super zoom. And I couldn't care less what people say about peripheral vision and view being zoomed out by default.
Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

You can do the same in ArmA 2 game when you play with friends. It is even more immersive and amazing experience if you add ACRE (3D voice sound, realistic radio) mod to it.

Since RO2 isn't tactical, but run'n'gun game there is no point of doing such things.
 
Upvote 0
#119
Played as Allied Commander on Pavlov's House. Found two Germans upstairs in Zab's. Got shot through the wall the first time by an Mkb. Respawned, went to the same room, tossed in a grenade which did no damage, and tried to shoot through the wall. Got the Mkb, but the MG34 gunner swung his weapon around at the hip and tore me apart.

Went to Pavlov's House proper to call in arty. Twice, I was killed at the radio by a lone German MGer far behind enemy lines, firing from the hip.

That German ended the round with 52 kills.

When people would rather run around doing this (see screenshot), we can't have a team-based game.

...
 

Attachments

  • 2011-12-12_00010.jpg
    2011-12-12_00010.jpg
    67.5 KB · Views: 0
Upvote 0
#120
Jippofin said:
Soldiers who have shot MG say they are realistic with recoil.

Gamers say they are not.

Which one to believe.


BTW. On the posted you tube videos, first one shows nicely how TRIPOD mounted MG jumps up. Second video show DP-28 wildly twisting up under recoil with no hope of hitting a mansized target at 100m. This is your proof?
Click to expand...

I've shot an mg. I say it is not realistic. The jogging while firing fullauto is the most arcade like aspect of the game bar none. Even the silly 2 second bandage of a rifle round to the upper thigh pails in comparison to the circle strafing, full auto unloading of an mg in combat.

But if any of the TWI devs can display the ability, I'll concede. :IS2:
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Community News
Forums
Merch
Menu